Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278

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The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis”

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  • bluebird

    The Tournier family isnt an ordinary family in Annecy. I found the below statement but i could not definitely put it into a certain period. Could have happened 20 or 50 years ago. However, the important thing is important on that statement that they are no ordinary family in the Annecy region.

    M. Maurice Tournier, conseiller municipal d’Annecy depuis plus de cinquante ans et maire pendant plus de trente ans de la commune de Lathuile, est mort accidentellement.

    Google translation:
    Maurice Tournier, Councillor of Annecy for over fifty years and mayor for more than thirty years of the municipality of Lathuile, died accidentally.

  • bluebird

    Just a weird idea and brain storming. What if a Hezbollah retaliation this week?

    Story: Saad and family hiding more or less anonymously at a camping ground in lake annecy, even changing their address every 2 days.

    The jewish Tournier family owns not just the one but most camping grounds at lake annecy (the two daughters, her husband, mother – just check fb of her daughter sophie communal-tournier for details). As a matter of fact, having the municipality of that region for almost 100 years in their family, the jewish tourniers would be the first asset for mossad. If they had not been yet, they would certainly ask them a few years ago. However, i suppose that they are mossad since a verry long time.

    As i said, just an idea built out of logic.

    The Tourniers supposingly work for Mossad and blow the whistle regarding all camping ground visitors at lake annecy once they arrive.
    Hezbollah intelligence now found out who killed their top members and starts retaliating. Even Abadi could have been in the other side and blown the whistle regarding the illicit zirconium trade.

  • bluebird

    Interesting jobs …..

    Sylvain Tournier

    Lake fest team manager chez Mairie d’Annecy
    Chambéry Area, FrancePaper & Forest Products
    Current Mairie d’Annecy, Armée de Terre

    Previous Poralu Bois, Michael Weinig AG, ALtrima
    Education ITII Lyon

    Experience

    Lake fest team manager

    Mairie d’Annecy

    August 2010 – Present (3 years 4 months)
    Annecy Managing a six people team to greet and inform peoples, both locals and tourists.Once a year, from the morning until the night.

    French army

    Armée de Terre

    April 2012 – Present (1 year 8 months)
    Chambéry Area, France
    Reservist in 13th Batallion of Alpine Hunter (company Stéphane)
    Tactical and physical trainings for protection missions in France.
    Main mission : Vigipirate Plan, public area security (train station, great tourism place, airport, etc)

  • katie

    If so Ricki,BB, why now ?
    The Al Hilli’s have been camping in France on & off for years & the Tournier’s have been there for years….what would have suddenly triggered this crime,what is the connection , it’s hardly likely that this well established Jewish family are trying to kill everyone who’s against Israel ?

  • bluebird

    Regarding sylvain tournier (above)

    Forestry workers could work for:

    Poralu Bois, for Michael Weinig AG, and for ALtrima

    All three of the above are into forestry and woods industries.

  • bluebird

    Katie
    I havent said that they killed somebody. I said that i suggest that they worked for mossad in that region. Perhaps even a mossad office. But that is just a theory.
    Of course Sylvain Tournier must have known forestry wotkers and he must have known the col d’ire environment due to his alpine hunter military career and due to his forestry/wood career and simply because he lives there. Meeting tourists at lake annecy on a daily routine plus identifying their documents when they register for camping grounds is a fantasy for intelligence agencies.

    I did not say that they killed them. I said that i suggest that they are mossad.
    Why now? I dont know. Why not next month or 3 months ago? I dont know. Maybe that was the right time after long intelligence investigations of hezbollah? Or maybe it were even their own people because one certain person could not keep quiet?

  • Ricki Tarr

    I think that the Al hilli family where a threat either politically or they had information, maybe to be presented at the conference, maybe they where going to work in Iran or Iraq either would have been a threat, the way the Mossad would have used the Tourniers as sayanims would have been information and access, they would have sent the hit team themselves and the Tourniers would have had nothing else to do with it! We are adding meat to the bones! Do you all remember the four wheel drive that was found down a hill near by is there any connection to the Tourniers?

  • Ricki Tarr

    I read that this morning it would have been better to say he was killed but we can’t say why!!!! I feel for Gareth parents they will never know the truth or really know the story behind what he was working on or what caused his death! It’s obvious he was killed and covered up! How can the police force take themselves seriously!

  • Tim V

    Sorry about that double post – I didn’t realise we had “turned a page”. And apologies to call Craig “Clive”. Now where did THAT come from?

  • Tim V

    “‘All tracks remain open’ said Mr Maillaud, who noted that Chevaline was ‘located a few kilometres from the campsite’.
    But he said that the weapons were not likely to be the same, and the ‘circumstances of the attacks’ were different.
    The Annecy prosecutor said he would not rule out a link between today’s killing and the al-Hilli shooting
    The Annecy prosecutor said he would not rule out a link between today’s killing and the al-Hilli shooting
    Discussing today crime, he said: ‘One can think of a burglary gone wrong, or a settling of accounts.’
    Murders are comparatively rare in the areas favoured by tourists in the French Alps, especially those involving gunmen.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2500332/Masked-gunmen-shoot-dead-woman-ran-Alps-campsite-just-miles-British-Iraqi-family-gunned-year.html#ixzz2kXA5Zhqq
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    What links this to Martinet?

    pistol and gun shot
    husband hit on head with gun but
    victim fatally shot
    locality and proximity to Chevaline
    camp site ownership (? either of the Al Hilli campsites or knowledge)
    Jewish prominent family – sayanims?
    Vigipirate = counter terrorism?
    time of year?
    reported preceding argument
    assailants get away in car
    no obvious motive, theft for example

    What distinguishes?

    House not car
    Time of day (middle of night rather than afternoon)
    No head shots
    Only one body shot (accidental) to wife
    Allowed one survivor
    Two assailants wearing balaclavas
    Less “professional” looking job
    no motor cycle
    smaller car

    There appear to me to be some strange aspects to this case. Were the attackers known to the victims or not? Opening a door at 2.00 am given recent history of the area would seem a bit foolhardy and unlikely unless you knew who it was. Out of the question to men wearing balaclavas. Then to go outside, argue and fight? Then despite them having gun, to get back inside and get under the stairs? If they had managed to close the front door and shut them out (very questionable) would they not have immediately got to the telephone not hide under the stairs? However the fact that the lady was shot at some point inside the house suggests the attackers either followed them in or got in immediately. So why only shoot one or did they just fire to frighten and instead hit the wife? Then the balaclavas: It suggests the intention was criminal but not fatal because if you intend to kill the only witnesses it doesn’t matter them seeing your face does it. In fact it acts as an obstacle.

    So from all this I would suggest if it is linked to Chevaline it appears a far less well organised event by a less intelligent/professional crew. This would tend to support BB’s suggestion IF there were a link, it is more likely to be people on the OPPOSITE side of the conflict and the motive one of revenge possibly for contributing information towards the killing of the Al Hillis/Mollier. We shouldn’t forget the Shultz family in this either. Information on the grape vine as to the whereabouts of the Al Hillis would be very valuable information. If I was a French investigator I would be enquiring who said what to whom at Le Solitaire du Lac.

  • Tim V

    Incidentally it was “Two men wearing cagoules and gloves” apparently not balaclavas – apologies.

    My only other question is how if he was under the stairs with his wife seriously injured was he able to identify the escaping car?

    “The husband saw the killers escape in a small car, believed to be a Sedan, before calling the police. His wife was dead before they arrived. The husband was released from hospital today and was said to be in deep shock.”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2500332/Masked-gunmen-shoot-dead-woman-ran-Alps-campsite-just-miles-British-Iraqi-family-gunned-year.html#ixzz2kXMdPtuN
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    The Mail appears to be the only main line paper reporting on it at the moment. Is PETER ALLEN IN PARIS getting preferential treatment or just more “on the ball”?

  • Tim V

    “the weapons were not likely to be the same”

    That’s a bit of a strange one too from the enigmatic m maillaud. Note he doesn’t say they WERE not the same, only UNLIKELY to be. Why would a prosecutor come to that opinion other than KNOWING or SUSPECTING features of weaponry either there or at Martinet that would make it so. In the absence of forensics why would he jump to a conclusion the that the weapons “were UNLIKELY to be the same”? WHY?

  • Tim V

    Ricki Tarr
    13 Nov, 2013 – 12:16 pm we should note this is highly unusual (irregular even) for the police to effectively contradict a Coroner after a hearing. It’s akin to criticising a Crinal Court Judge I would say.

    Although not quite discussing the exact point contempt in relation to Coroners Courts is discussed here. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2007/feb/07/sun.pressandpublishing. Perhaps after the event the same rules don’t apply but the police usually are governed by strict rules about these things being part of the justice system.

    So I immediately wonder why they have made this comment. I am sure that even a senior policeman would have done so without assurance he “would be covered” professionally and politically. Permission or instruction must have come from much higher up as someone was very unhappy the Coroner had left it that this was a killing rather than a suicide.

    This undoubtedly gives off a whiff of a Vauxhall and makes a killing more not less likely wouldn’t you think? Indeed a killing of which MI5/6 is fully cognisant.

  • Mary

    Not very good for ‘le tourisme’ in the area.

    ‘All tracks remain open’ said Mr Maillaud, who noted that Chevaline was ‘located a few kilometres from the campsite’.
    But he said that the weapons were not likely to be the same, and the ‘circumstances of the attacks’ were different.

    The Annecy prosecutor said he would not rule out a link between today’s killing and the al-Hilli shooting The Annecy prosecutor said he would not rule out a link between today’s killing and the al-Hilli shooting.

    Discussing today crime, he said: ‘One can think of a burglary gone wrong, or a settling of accounts.’

    Masked gunmen shoot dead woman who ran Alps campsite just miles from where British-Iraqi family were gunned down last yearThe woman shot in chest in village of Lathuile, near Lake Annecy
    Her husband was beaten with the butt of the gun in the attack
    Murder is just miles from site of death of al-Hilli family killed last year
    Saad, wife Ikbal and her mother Suhaila al-Allaf gunned down on holiday

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2500332/Masked-gunmen-shoot-dead-woman-ran-Alps-campsite-just-miles-British-Iraqi-family-gunned-year.html

  • Mary

    Sorry Tim V. Did not intend to double post that. I had not read back.

    Agree with you ref Gareth Williams. There was none of his DNA on the padlock and zip fastener and none on the side of the bath or his prints.

    The evidence of Dr Richard Shepherd pathologist was used in this case. Attorney General Dominic Grieve relied on his review of Dr Nicholas Hunt’s original findings for the Hutton Inquiry in refusing an inquest for Dr David Kelly.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9286711/MI6-spy-Gareth-Williams-may-have-locked-himself-in-bag-pathologist-suggests.html

    The video of the army sergeant was crucial in the latest ‘nothing to see, nothing to happening, move along now’ statement.

    http://wikispooks.com/wiki/Gareth_Williams

    There was a good blog dealing with this unnatural death, the investigation, the evidence and the eventual inquest but I cannot locate it now. His sister and family did not go along with the official line.

  • bluebird

    What Eric means with “settling of accounts” means “revenge” or “blood feud”.

    Why does he link the Tournier family with al Hilli as being a possible “blood feud”?
    He certainly knows that there might be connections otherwise it would be stupid talking about “settling of accounts”.

    Zaid had talked about a powerful family in that area who is protected.
    Tournier?

    Tournier is a Jewish family (see the Buchenwald records).

    That is my understanding, too. Blood feud.

    The two daughters of Tournier married the two sons of the Deronzier family.
    Tournier had the maire of Lathuil for more than 50 years before Maurice Tournier died accidentally (dont know when nor why).
    Deronzier had the maire of Doussard. However he accidentally died in october 2009 during deer hunting on Col d’Ire (jean claude deronzier).

    Tournier owns camping grounds and deronzier owns camping grounds. Deronzier rents pedal boats and sailing boats at lake annecy. Deronzier have a dental protgeses company in annecy (Sarl Deronzier).

    Two political powerful local families intermarried in september 2012 into an even more powerful family.
    Is that the powerful family Zaid was talking about?
    But why would they – according to Zaid – try to kill sylvain mollier?
    Because one family was jewish and the molliers right wing nazi? Could be true from all what we know, but that’ s no reason for murder.

  • bluebird

    I was just thinking strange like a mivie script …
    Killing of mollier early sept 2012.
    Marriage of the tournier and deronzier family mid sept 2012.

    We were told by mollier’s friend that he had love affairs with girls and that he received death threats. We were told by zaid that this was about mollier and a powerful local family.
    What if ….. mollier dated one of the tournier girls? The double marriage about to crash??
    Eliminate him before that marriage between two powerful families fails?
    Both Tournier girls are extremely beautiful

    Just a bad rosemary pilcher movie script, i know, but ….

  • Tim V

    Dr Richard Shepherd

    “He was sent to New York to advise on the management of UK fatalities following 9/11 and to Bali following the bomb attack on the Sari Club. He was also the forensic pathological expert for the Bloody Sunday Inquiry and the Inquiry and Inquest into the deaths of Diana, Princess of Wales and Mr Dodi Al Fayed.

    He has recently provided the Attorney General with a review of the forensic pathological aspects of the death of Dr David Kelly, a scientist employed by the British Ministry of Defence and formerly a United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq.

    – See more at: http://internationaljusticeconference.com/forensic-expert-speakers/dr-richard-sheppard/#sthash.o2uCrESH.dpuf“

  • Tim V

    Thanks Mary. We have discussed here in the past as well particularly the Kazak and American connections if I remember rightly. You notice in that latest report, the family prefers the Coroner’s finding. We have also discussed at length the subtle ways and means of getting the families to tow the line in these highly suspicious deaths. Once a loved one is past saving, and various inducements both positive and negative are made, it is a strong, even stubborn individual that continues. Note how quiet the al hilli family has been. Can you blame them with psychopaths on the loose?

  • Tim V

    From your ref. Mary. The security services have long played a game with the public knowing there was no one with the ability to challenge them. A similar game is being played out with the full knowledge of British Prime Minister and French President over Chevaline. As soon as they (the french and british) say they haven’t got a clue we know they must be lying. We do not have a transparent and honest society. They would say we cant afford to have one. Wouldnt it be better they admitted the fact than lie through their teeth? Knowing this how can we trust anything they say or do – al qaeda/terrorist threat/frustrated attacks/doing it all for us/we have nothing to fear etc etc? If we don’t trust them how are we to be persuaded to agree to their agenda and activities?

    “If the bizarre nature of his death was part of a setup staged by a professional from the intelligence community, it would almost certainly not be the first time such an incident occurred. Many M16 and other spies have turned up dead in the aftermath of what looked like embarrassing sexual encounters. According to the Daily Mail, there have been more than 17 deaths of British agents who have died under suspicious circumstances during the past 50 years. Of those deaths, a third died while engaging in what appeared to have been bizarre sexual acts. The motive in staging these sex scenes was to prevent investigators from discovering the truth, according to the Daily Mail.

  • Tim V

    “The Attorney General looked to Professor Shepherd for corroboration of Dr Hunt’s forensic evidence, and to Professor Flanagan regarding the toxicology. (5) The 17 page report submitted by Professor Shepherd to the Attorney General on 16th of March (6) was published along with other papers. In regard to the possibility that a human can die as a result of haemorrhage from a cut ulnar artery Professor Shepherd said –

    “It is common forensic pathological experience that individuals can and do die as a result of solitary injuries to arteries or other blood vessels …… I have seen many cases of death from haemorrhage following incised injuries to the wrist in my career and I had a case in the last year (HSL82) in which a young individual died solely as a result of a self-inflicted, solitary incision of her left ulnar artery.

    And again he said “In my opinion, and in my experience, incised injuries to the ulnar artery may be unusual but they are without doubt potentially lethal injuries.”

    The post-mortem report of HSL82 was requested through Mr Kevin McGinty, the head of the Attorney General’s office. Professor Shepherd kindly provided it. This showed that there was a second cause of death ie alcohol intoxication. This and other concerns of the author were reported to the General Medical Council in a 9 page letter dated 12th of May 2012.(7) This was accompanied by 40 pages of evidence and by internet links. The GMC dismissed the evidence and the concerns of the author in 9 working days.(8) This statutory body has already started on the re-validation of over 100,000 doctors in the UK. Consistency is obviously not its forte although the public depends on its scrutiny.

    The medical literature was searched as widely as possible for reports of ulnar artery laceration causing death by haemorrhage. None were found. It was necessary to ask Professor Shepherd for evidence of the other cases he had referred to. A letter was sent on the 9th of April 2012 and acknowledged very briefly by Professor Shepherd. (9) A further letter was sent 22nd of June 2012 (10) There has been no reply.

    The Schedule (11) of the Attorney General attempted to counter or answer the many points raised in favour of an inquest. This author, in his letter listing his concerns to the General Medical Council, stated “The expert opinion of Dr Richard Shepherd was central or even crucial in the grounds upon which the Attorney General based his decision to refuse the plea for an inquest. It was relevant too in the hearing of my plea and the refusal of it in the Administrative Division of the High Court 19 December 2011…….” Professor Shepherd’s name was quoted 45 times within this schedule. His evidence certainly was crucial in bolstering the evidence and opinion of Dr Nicholas Hunt, and the conclusions of the Attorney General.

    As regards the first cause of death, the Professor’s evidence and opinion are not seen to be grounded in fact. Humans do not bleed to death from transection of the ulnar artery at the wrist. This contention of the group of doctors who have been pleading for an inquest is shown to be correct. This is very disturbing to say the very least, and in many ways. It is the more disturbing because Professor Shepherd is eminent in the field of forensic pathology. (12)”
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/professor-richard-shepherd-and-the-unnatural-death-of-dr-david-kelly-haemorrhage-from-cutting-the-ulnar-artery-a-sole-cause-of-death/5345785

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