The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
What we witness is a consistent picture of subtle manipulation of the death scene evidence to produce a desired result and subsequently a pointed refusal to reconsider or reopen and if in the unlikely event this happens, a miraculous loss of evidence, memory or deaths of possible witnesses. We saw it with Kelly, with Williams, with others too numerous to mention on both sides of the Atlantic. We see it in Chevaline. Even more outrageously we saw it in Boston, in New York Twin Towers, in the Pentagon,in “friendly fire” deaths, Iran/Contra, Kennedy’s assassination. Specific instances of testimony, expert, eye witness not being called, artefacts being “lost” or even intentionally destroyed, a refusal to answer. How many years did it take for the truth to emerge re. “Bloody Sunday”, Hillsborough, Savile, etc etc? Who has the power to frustrate due process and why do our hugely expensive systems fail those aggrieved?
News on Abadi. Suspect arrested. Iran plays down motive. Is Eric’s downplay propaganda working in Iran, too?
http://scmp.com/news/world/article/1353644/iran-plays-down-killing-minister-safdar-rahmat-abadi-first-years
http://huffpost.com/us/entry/4266023
Google translate from below link. News on Tournier murder:
after the murder of Nicole Tournier, manager of the Ideal of Lathuil camping on the night of Sunday to Monday, the investigation continues. The body of the victim should be autopsied today to confirm the cause of death. Analysis of technical and scientific police were requested. Meanwhile, investigators will have to answer some questions posed by the afffaire. Is it greed that drew these two rovers on the heights of Lathuil? While camping, a jewel of outdoor accommodation on the banks of the lake, could arouse envy, it seems difficult to explain why this intrusion took place in November, more than a month after closing annuelle.Autre question, why get into this house with gloves, hoods and gun for a simple burglary? Especially when the household is asleep and the TV on. Was it an attempt to home-jacking? Gendarmes company Annecy and research section of Chambéry, in charge of the investigation, will have to find answers. “Robbery gone bad shot is of course a hypothesis, “admitted yesterday the deputy prosecutor Yann Jomier at a press conference on site. “But this is not the only hypothesis on which we work …” Has he said.
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2013/11/12/meurtre-a-lathuile-de-nombreuses-questions-pour-les-enqueteurs
Dont know if that link was already posted. Sorry for double posting if it was.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2500332/Masked-gunmen-shoot-dead-woman-ran-Alps-campsite-just-miles-British-Iraqi-family-gunned-year.html
Both Syria and Iran have played down air attacks and sabotage Bluebird
14 Nov, 2013 – 11:38 am
This can’t be accidental. The over-riding policy objective appears to be giving no overt excuse to precipitate an Israeli or American military intervention and to get atom agreement so that sanction will be lifted. That’s why Rouhani is doing the (smiling) charm offensive reminiscent of Mikhail Gorbachev at the demise of the USSR. However smiles just involve pulling a few facial muscles (still highly problematic at recent Obama/Putin meetings recently). They don’t help the unprecedented numbers in Iran (and Iraq) hanging from a rope.
“In the two weeks between September 11 and September 25, Iranian officials hanged a record 50 individuals, primarily for drug-related offenses.Yet while Rouhani was elected on promises of change and human rights reforms, there have been at least 125 executions since his inauguration on August 4, with dozens of other prisoners sentenced to death or facing imminent execution.Iran carries out more executions per capita annually than any other country in the world. So far in 2013, Iran has executed at least 402 individuals. It also carries out many of these executions in public, with 53 such public executions in 2013.”
http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2013/10/executions/
As regards Williams, if I a stupid and un-influential individual can ask simple questions that would appear to me to point to other individual(s) in the room, why can’t the police with their vast array of sophisticated resources and powers can only be explained by either utter incompetence or superior direction to cover-up.
Question one: how would it be physically possible, leaving aside the question of why, for Williams to have got himself into the holdall inside the bath, without leaving a single finger or footprint? I would have thought that pointed incontrovertibly to clean-up that could only happen after he was in the bag.
Question two: who turned the heating up in the flat. Is it really likely Williams would have done it before this private escapology adventure?
Question three: no finger prints anywhere? That is so unusual as to be impossible without a clean-up team.
Question four: no sign of break-in is an old and favoured trick of professional killers. It points strongly to either duplicate keys (as this was a MI6 house this is more than likely) or Williams let them in either as part of an arranged assignation or because he knew and trusted the person(s) at the door. Incidentally how did the police get in – was it a force entry or did they break in.
Question four: what plausible reasons could there be for MI5/6 not co-operating with a police enquiry if this was a simple suicide?
Question five: is it believable that MI6 did not monitor this their flat and their employee given the highly sensitive nature of the work when apparently they monitor EVERYONE else? The notion is preposterous that the flat was not subject to CCTV and other monitoring. The fact that no information was available from this source would indicate it was either intentionally disabled or hidden from the Coroner. If Government sources say there was none it is simply not believable.
Question six: why did it take so long before his absence was noted. Any employee of a normal business is missed on the very FIRST day if no arrangement is made and steps are taken to find out what’s wrong. This is a top man in top secret activity in one of the most security conscious businesses in the country – and no one missed or asked after him for HOW long??? This is against all logic as well for which mealy mouthed apologies added insult to injury. If true, how could we have any confidence in our security services whatsoever? The most feasible explanation for the delay and the location of the bag and the room heating/temperature, is that bodily decay was intentional to mask known post mortem features. Not only is this chilling from the point of view of a murder, but also of course would implicate our own SS in it!
The other thing is that there seems to be a huge change in the players in the game, there seems to be a huge power struggle!
The Saudi’s are not happy with the USA and Israel at the moment because of the Syria and Iran situations and the US’s lack of action! The French through a spanner in the works in last week’s talks with Iran because they are making a major play to supply weapons and technical help to the Saudi’s!
You have also seen Turkey throw the Mossad spies under the bus and their relationship with the US go to the dogs. The US had promised Patriot missiles to safe guard Turkeys boarder, this was a reward to Turkey for good behaviour! Turkey have now expelled Saudi diplomats and Intelligence in their country.
The Saudi Intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan has even teased teh Americans mentioning that their relationship has and will change!
Saudi Arabia are panicking and have even gone as far as to pay for Nukes from Pakistan as Saudi financed the PAK’s Nuke program.
sorry about the errors in that one – done too quickly without checking. As far as the police entry of course i meant by key or by force. (if key there must have been duplicates knocking around if by force it raises a question of how you distinguish tale tell signs)
Yup Ricky and who do you see on the international stage creating a who ha about SA getting nukes??? Yup you guessed it NO ONE not even the Russians. So now we have nukes in Turkey (by kind permission of the Americans) nukes in the Med (British, French, American, Israili) Israel on land, Saudi on land, Pakistan, India to the EASt, Russia to the North – and what’s in the middle? Well of course Syria/Iran. No wonder Rouhani’s smiling!
The landlady let the Police in Williams’s flat I read it in article at the time!
Here’s a very rational examination of Diana’s fatal accident with plenty of the usual cover-up techniques I referred to above. Just one: Did you know her safety belt wasn’t clipped because it was jammed? No I didn’t either.
Another link to Chevaline (and there are many) is that she died only a couple of weeks before a Swedish international conference on banning land mines that she had made her own and would have attended. The American President was the only one apparently who didn’t sign up having previously supported it – impossible if she had been there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DLDHKoli8A
Thanks Ricki Tarr
14 Nov, 2013 – 4:54 pm. So at least ONE spare key then?
I watched a video on YouTube a few weeks ago on the Williams case and Gordon Thomas author and Mossad expert was on it and said that all safe houses such as Williams flat would have what is called house keepers who would go around to the safe houses make sure they are maintained and most of all clean of prints and other evidence that could be connected back to the tenant! Makes sense in their game I suppose I guess the house keepers would know exactly what to use to get rid of this evidence!
Video connected to above post
http://youtu.be/B0EWirWRm5E
So are we saying our current theory is – Sylvian Mollier was making some sort of deal for zirconium to be sent to Iran for their Nuclear arms program. The deal may have been made at the conference in Geneva and the Al-Hilli may have planned to elope to Iran or Iraq afterwards.
A Security Service like the Mossad have then got wind of this via a plant or asset in the area or industry and as usual have taken them out of the food chain! The other option is that it was a sting operation and the meeting was set up to get the right people in the room at the same time………………………?
The reports said that the Large amount of information stored on computers and memory sticks was not Military but mentioned nothing about industrial or Nuclear!
It is obvious from BB’s excellent family research that both the Al-Hilli’s and Al-Saffars had friends and family members in high places, powerful people and this is the key information that has been suppressed its important for them to be portrayed as a normal family!
Has everyone seen Munich? my mind is always drawn to the scene where they kill the Palestinian in Paris with an explosive phone, they have to abort the mission at first because the man’s daughter answers the phone! she then leaves for school and they make then blow the place up. It may just be in there to show humility but I think this may be a Mossad rule!
Ricki tarr
There are many theories. We dont know about what theory is correct because me dont have the information Eric has got. However it is significant that even Eric doesnt rule out a connection to chevaline in the tournier murder. Perhaps the Tourniers were already questioned by police in regards to chevaline last year? If so, why?
Lets add some facts:
Tournier are a powerful family in that area with maires and evonomic influence. Now they even married into another lical powerful family of Doussard (Derozier).
Both the maire of Lathuile (Tournier) and the maire of Doussard (Derozier) died “accidentally” due to local press in earlier decades. There lies something tragic in the fate of these families.
The Tournier are Jewish (Buchenwald records).
Dont know about if Derozier are Jewish, though. Maybe. Maybe they arent.
Zaid talked about a powerful local family. That would be a powerful local family.
Did you read my “Rosamunde Pilcher theory” I had posted on this site?
That would 100% confirm what Zaid had said. Though, that would not be very exciting.
The second recent theory was Tournier being a local Mossad office, whistleblowing about the whereabouts and organosing the assassins. Counter terror specialist Sylvain Tournier from Annecy previously worked in the local forestry and woods industry and for sure he knows local forestry workers.
Then we have the assassination of mines and metallurgy minister Abadi in Iran that is now being downplayed by Iran as “private”, happening on the same weekend when Tournier was killed. Abadi was responsible for zirconium.
Then we have David Albright’s ISIS documents that Iran did obtain zirconium in illicit trades as late as summer 2012 in regards to tge Arak reactors.
Then we have SM from Cezus (zirconium).
There might be a connection. Abadi could have been part of the team. However, he could have been working for mossad, too. Perhaps whistleblowing the zirconium trade. Then Tournier whistleblowing the whereabouts of al hilli and helping to organise the assassination. That isnt an unlikely theory.
Plus last werk the blood feud of iran regarding abadi and tournier?
Sounds logic to me.
Conference:
I dont think that the conference had to do with zirconium. The conference might have been a reason to carry mother in law to geneve and into holidays. Perhaps there were meetings prior to the conference and saad received money to be paid to SM by him as a third party handler from somebody who did attend the conference. Hence the meeting with mollier?
Sounds logic to me.
But this is just theory.
Im just talking about our best theory basically our best guess with the information we have!
re Ricky – “flat door locked from outside”! That’s a new one on me. And third party DNA at the scene then just before inquest back track with statement that the lab had messed up the results. So where have we heard that before?????????? Two seen “Mediterranean types” – four months to identikit – then statement its a red herring. Disinformation about sex life – an old chestnut. Policeman acts as apologist – no surprise. “We will never get to the bottom of this” yet another trademark.
“The 2011/12 CSEW shows that there were 2.1 million violent incidents in England and Wales with 3% of adults victimised. The number of violent incidents has halved from its peak in 1995
when the survey estimated over 4.2 million violent incidents.
Focusing on the most serious violence, the number of homicides currently recorded by the police has increased from 1961 to 2002/03, and shown a generally downward trend since. The number
currently recorded for 2011/12 (540) is the lowest since 1989 (521).
. The 2010/11 figure included the 12
victims of the Cumbrian shootings on 2 June 2010. The proportion of homicides committed by
shooting was 7% in 2011/12.
Children under one were the group most likely to be a victim of homicide at 21 homicides per million population, followed by those aged 16 to 29 with a homicide rate at 15 per million.
Men were most likely to be killed by a friend or acquaintance (39% of all homicides) while women were most likely to be killed by a partner or ex-partner (51% of all homicides)”
The 2010/11 figure included the 12 victims of the Cumbrian shootings on 2 June 2010. The proportion of homicides committed by shooting was 7% in 2011/12.”
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_298904.pdf
The point of all this is the likes of Williams and Chevaline is EXCEEDINGLY rare and untypical. As soon as you put the secret services into the mix the likelihood they are connected becomes overwhelmingly likely. As soon as the “authorities” either pointedly ignore this possibility, postulate every scenario except the most obvious one, or positively argue against it including character assassination and victim blaming, not only are covert operations more likely, but it increases hugely that whoever of stalling the investigation, is also implicated in the murder. This is as true with Williams as it is with the somewhat more complicated Al Hilli/Mollier case. This should be profoundly worrying to all of us as it means the legal process can be circumnavigated by a select few, as with Savile, which must involve corruption and lies in high places. It also places a big question mark against our own, or anybody’s, security. Neither police or coroner or “free” press or civil justice is able to protect the citizen or identify the killer apparently. Is this a situation we can be happy with?
I would just add that in these atypical murders, timing becomes much more important because they are not, like most murders, domestic, spur of the moment, passionate, fuelled by drink or drugs, events. They are rational, minutely planned, executed by professionals with defined objectives. We may not know the exact connection but the fact that Williams was intent on returning to his old job, apparently disillusioned with MI6, only days later, CANNOT in all the circumstances, be co-incidental. Nor can the fact that the Chevaline killings take place in the tiny remote window when both Al Hilli and Molier were together. Nor that the timing of the Al Hilli arrival is precisely the same time as the delegates arrive to a major Iraqi conference in the very location (Geneva) he intends to visit – a conference incidentally that is virtually ignored by western media outlets despite a really “juicy” story of chaos.
Google translation.
I found this comment in the french metro blog. Did not verify it yet.
It did not take long for the police to establish a link between two crimes that have, for the time, one common name: William Brett Martin. The man who discovered the crime scene in Chevaline is in effect a neighbour of the Tournier family in Lathuile … there is his second home.
There we are:
Silver Fern Sussex Lathuile
http://france.silverfernsussex.co.uk/location.html
The french contributor to the metro blog is right.
So there might be another police theory: did the guys mix up WBM’s house with Tournier’s house or were Tournier and WBM more than just neighbours and friends, maybe vauxhall business friends?
There WBM is mentioned somehow as a sidenote in french media, too:
http://directmatin.fr/#article/608119
http://parismatch.com/Actu/Faits-divers/Une-femme-tuee-chez-elle-en-pleine-nuit-536293
Another maire in that region (Le Biot is half way between Ugine and Geneva).:
Mairie de Le Biot Maire : Monsieur Tournier Henri-Victor
Adresse : Chef lieu 74430 Le Biot ( Haute-Savoie ) Téléphone : 04 50 72 12 06
Henri Victor Tournier
http://www.lebiot.fr/Accueil-des-personnalites-en
Jean Paul Tournier (husband of Nicole) and Mme Deronzier are members of the Lathuile region city council (Lathuile, Doussard, Chevaline region).
Le Conseil Municipal de LATHUILE, convoqué le 05/05/2008 , s’est réuni, à la mairie, le mardi 13 MAI 2008, à 20 h, sous la présidence de M. BOURNE Hervé, Maire. Etaient présents : Tous les Conseillers Municipaux sauf M. SAENGER Nicolas. A donné pouvoir :. A l’ouverture de la séance, le Maire propose de rajouter à l’ordre du jour le point suivant : « Proposition de désignation des commissaires titulaires et suppléants de la Commission Communale des Impôts directs » Le Conseil Municipal, à l’unanimité accepte de débattre sur ce point supplémentaire
AUMAITRE Roland DEBOES Bertrand LARY Robert MERMAZ-ROLLET Roland MILLET Auguste (bois) MERMAZ François (Doussard) BONHEUR Jean SAENGER Nicolas ZONI Robert SARTORI Sophie CARRERA Isabelle BARBIER Pierre-Etienne ADAM Bernard Mme VERNAY Sandrine Mme LARY Raymonde BRASSOUD Pierre Communal-Tournier Jean-Paul (bois) Mme DERONZIER Claude (Doussard) PECCOUD Bernard BARAT André LAFFIN Michel DURIER Alain SENECLAUZE Noël DAL-MORO Jean-François
Interesting. Not long ago, nicole communal-tournier’s name was nicole lacroix.
This is 100% the same person because her name is Nicole Josette. It looks like as if she is the second wife of Mr. Tournier and that they had married not long ago.
http://www.verif.com/societe/CAMPING-L-IDEAL-441001047/
Good find below:
Interesting french twitter account regarding unsolved killings in the lathuile region and mollier (many new still unheard names of killed local victims mentioned here):
https://twitter.com/AmRochaix/status/400202553184378881
https://twitter.com/AmRochaix
Another interesting chevaline twitter account on bottom of this link below.
Deadzone61 mentioned that Tournier was killed only 1 week after the efit graphics had been released by police. Was this efit a possible reason?
http://deadzone61.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/tck-the-gift/
The Lathuile city council names tell us that Auguste Millet and Jean Paul Tournier (husband of killed Nicole) were in fact responsible for the local forestry and of course responsible for the local forestry workers of that region (bois=wood ). That correlates with the job history of Sylvain Tournier (the counter terror army special force member from annecy) who started his job career in forestry and wood.
Known facts:
Jean Luc Tournier …. responsible for forestry of that region.
Nicole Tournier killed one week after police efit had been released.
WBM lives (second house) in the close neighbourhood of Tournier in Lathuile.
Tournier are a powerful family in that region with maires and good contacts.
Deronzier is a powerful family of that region with maires and contacts.
Zaid said that this is about a powerful local family.
Deronzier and Tournier intermarried 2 sons and 2 daughters in sept 2012.
Sylvain Tournier from annecy works on counter terrorism in a special alpine hunter force of the french army.
Tournier family is jewish.
Nicole Tournier’s name was Nicole Lacroix not long ago but Lacroix is not her maiden name.
Deronzier (the maire) died (or was killed) in 2009 while hunting.
There are more so far unknown and still unresolved killings in that region.
First recorded ancestor of the Tournier family:
Isaac Tournier born 1692 in 81, Puylaurens, Haut Languedoc, died 23 April 1785 in 69, Lyon (NC), ,RHONE married to Marguerite Brun.
This record was found in the Huguenot database. They were/are Jewish Huguenots.
At first i was wondering about why jews would be calvinist/protestant huguenots and i thought that this must be a wrong track, until i saw these 2 articles:
http://www.britam.org/huegenot.html
http://rosamondpress.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/are-huguenots-jews/
Then it was understandable and logic why many Jewish families were huguenots and that in fact most huguenots are jewish.
We do have a record here that historically the Brun family was intermarried with the Tournier family.
Interestingly enough there are many Brun girls who got the name Marguerite (the same name the historic first marguerite brun in the huguenot database has got). That is the marguerite Brun who married Isaac Tournier.
I cannot tell whether or not the Brun family from Ugine is the same Brun family whose Marguetite had married Isaac Tournier. However, while checking the Huguenot database there were many marguerite Brun in that same family in the 18th and 18th century who did belong to the Tournier-Brun family. Obviously Marguerite is a popular name for huguenots.
Now, the late Frederic Brun’s grandmother in Ugine was called Marguerite Brun, too. Coincidence or is the Brun family from Ugine really closely related with the Tournier family from Lathuile? Then the whole chevaline story and its french connections would start to make some sense.