The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
James
Yes of course.
I posted the municipality link approx. 2 weeks ago.
Responsible for woods and forestry in the municipality (commune) Lathuile-Doussard-Chevaline is Jean Paul Communal-Tournier.
He also has a private trade authority for woods and forestry and landscape design.
Also Nicole’s father Guy Lacroix is in the woods industry. He constructs and builds all the wooden chalets and villas in the region.
So then, when you have questions or requests regarding forestry in that region and if you go to the town hall for that reason, then you will speak to jean paul communal-tournier (nicole’s husband).
James
Another Haite Savoie Tournier family company:
“World leader in woodworking/forestry machines”
SCM : Leader Mondial de la Machines à Bois
http://www.machines-a-bois.org/
If you want to know something about woodworking, ask the Haute Savoie Tournier family.
I am pretty sure that Jean Paul knows the forestry workers of that region very well and he also knows about who is a forestry worker and who isnt.
When you go and search “bois” (wood) or “sylviculture” (forestry) you will stumble over the name Tournier everywhere (in haute savoie in particular but literally everywhere else in france, too). Forestry and wood industry seems to be in the hands of Tournier all over france.
Dominique Tournier (45 ans), previously: director ONF
Directeur commercial : Mathieu Tournier, Tél. 01 40 05 23 10.
SCIERIE TOURNIER VINCENT ET FILS
Sciage et rabotage du bois, Sylviculture, exploitation forestière, SCIERIE TOURNIER VINCENT ET FILS, Lieu-Dit Battalieux, 74550, ORCIER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mUwgtJY_ZA
http://www.machines-bois-haute-savoie.fr/
That looks like the house where the tournier killing happened:
http://www.locations-vacances-tourisme.com/location,appartement,Com741470.html
Blue
Yes, the Tournier name is everywhere in that area.
Just refresh me…
How did Jean-Paul end up being “Communal-Tournier” ?
His father was “Maurice Communal-Tournier”.
But his grandfather was “George Francios Communal” No “Tournier” there. It looks like he died in World War I (1915).
His wife was Marie Suzanne Ducret (the mother of Maurice). She died in 1944.
Did she re-marry a Tournier ? Maurice appears to be the “first” to start using the full name. Or was “George Francios” a “Communal-Tournier” but the full name was not used ?
James
In noble and old families they want to keep their family names, also aristocrats do this.
It looks as if that carrying of double names is a tradition in haute savoie amongst old local inhabitant families.
Usually when you marry, the wife will adopt the surname of her husband and the children will get the surname of their father.
However, when two noble/traditional or aristocrat families intermarry, they are keeping both names. Like Mollier-Popilloz or Mollier-Carrot etc.
The first name will be the name of the husband’s family while the second name will be the name of the bride’s family.
At one point in history, a male from the Communal family married a girl from the Tournier family and from that point onwards that family branch was called Communal-Tournier.
I wonder whether or not the two girls from the Communal-Tournier family adopted the name Deronzier or if they kept their Communal-Tournier names after they had married in 2012.
James
I forgot to finish the genealogy seminar:
Pre marriage:
Male husband’s surname: Communal
His bride’s maiden name: Tournier
After marriage:
Male husband’s surname, still: Communal
Wife’s surname: Communal-Tournier
Their children’s surnames: Communal-Tournier
I get that.
But when I looked at “George Francois Communal” I couldn’t see the “Tournier” bit part.
Because he died young, I wonder if Marie Suzanne Ducret married a Tournier.
Also (I guess you’ve seen the same thing I have) they all know the same people.
There is hardly a deviation in friends.
So brothers marring sister form the next village…seems almost like “it was bound to happen”.
The Tournier name is everywhere in that area. I mean MASSIVE.
And covers the Alpine region.
http://www.tournier.org/en/infos/repartition.html
Big hotel people it looks like.
Example.
http://www.skisolutions.com/countries/france/resorts/courchevel/accommodations/le-lana
That is 50K’s away from Albertville. 80K’s from Lathuile.
But what part is the “communal-Tournier’s”.
I think they’re local to Chevaline, Doussard, Lathuile areas ?
Thx james
Good genealogy link, particularly the Tournier ancestry forum.
No doubts that the Tourniers were Huguenots. Pastors who lived and died for missionary in North Korea, in Algeria and in Marocco. No doubts that they are the most powerful family in the Annecy/Haute Savoie region.
Rich and noble marriages with other local rich families made the Tournier family more powerful and more rich during the centuries.
What did Zaid say? “Protect a local powerful family”. I think that he does not lie in that respect.
http://www.genealogie.com/recherche-genealogique/nom-COMMUNAL-TOURNIER.html
James
You see, Maurice was called “communal” as well as “tournier” as well as “communal-tournier”.
Communal means “community” or “municipality”.
Could it be that this is no name given by marriage but a dedicated name for municipality leaders of the early 19th century? Some of the tourniers use it and some dont?
Like “Earl” or “Viscount” in england?
Just a guess.
Blue…
That is a “massive” family.
But here’s one for you.
http://www.geopatronyme.com/cgi-bin/carte/nomcarte.cgi?numero=1205884&periode=1
Note the “births”.
1891-1915 : 0 naiss.
1916-1940 : 1 naiss.
1941-1965 : 2 naiss.
1966-1990 : 3 naiss.
1916 to 1940 is 1. Who that be Maurice ? George François died in 1915.
The “two” maybe Jean-Paul and Annette.
The “three” could be Jean-Paul’s and Nicole’s children ?
My “reading” (translation) was that there may have been a son (a Lacroix ?).
Anyway it would appear that the “Communal-Tourniers” are a “new” branch of the Tournier clan ? Starting somewhere (somehow) with Maurice. What do you think ?
So the events (if they are linked in someway) would be “recent” ?
Note that George François was just “communal”.
If Marie Suzanne Ducret re married after the death of George François, she would have married a “Tournier”. But which/who ?
And then why was Maurice called “communal-Tournier” ?
Now the records must be “off” (or I am) as….
Marie Suzanne Ducret was born in 1874 (from what I saw)
George François Communal was born in 1886
In 1915 he would have been 29 years old at his death.
She would have been 41 ? Did she then re marry and have Maurice between 1916 and 1940 ?
As a “strange” note. He may have died late in 1915. She may have been pregnant then. And given birth in 1916 ! I don’t know !
A long line of “Communal’s” until we get to Maurice.
Then the name “Tournier” is added.
http://gw.geneanet.org/acavagnod?lang=en;pz=andre+jean+louis;nz=cavagnod;ocz=0;p=maurice;n=communal+tournier
It looks like “George François Communal” died at Eclusier -Vaux (Bray Sur Somme).
More commonly know as “The Somme”.
The poor b*****d.
Mud, death, gas, sweat, blood… and no doubt tears. A living hell for sure. (RIP).
Blue….
If Maurice was born before January 1915 (approx, give or take nine months.) then Maurice was a “Communal” (and so is the line thereafter).
If he was born in 1916. Then Maurice is a “Tournier”. But we don’t know of which Tournier.
Either way the name “Communal” is carried as an honour to George François (Communal).
Great find James
Here we have Jean Paul Communal’s sister Annette’s business.
She seems to be in the hunting and hunting weapons business.
The name of her husband is Robert. He seems to have left her maiden name and adopted her name as it seems to be a very powerful name.
http://www.info-lorraine.fr/earl-nanceau-cereales-lathuile-banque-f17202.html
It seems to be a very connected name.
Even the gym in the area is called the “Maurice Tournier”, but which one I don’t know.
But if our Maurice wasn’t a Tournier…but a Communal ?
Blue…
Do the Mollier’s link by “family” to the Communal’s or the Ducret’s ?
Or even the Chappelet’s ?
If there is a link in the murders, I think it maybe something “recent”.
But IF there is a link through the families, that would be indeed a find.
James
Maurice Communal was married to Elisabeth Mollier (died 2004) from Lathuile. Is this “our” Maurice Communal or is it another one? See below:
http://gw.geneanet.org/guyc?lang=en&p=simon&n=communal&m=A&t=N&v=99&templ=mobile
@James, Blue
It’s quite right to say the Tourniers were a Huguenot family, and it seems they gravitated heavily towards Annecy in the 20th century.
Check this out:
http://www.tournier.org/fr/infos/repartition.html
Répartition géographique du nom Tournier
On trouve des Tournier essentiellement en France et en Suisse ..
On observe un noyau dur aux alentours du lac Léman, avec une branche en Midi-Pyrénées plutôt bien portante.
Les mouvements migratoires de l’une vers l’autre, connus sous le nom de refuge huguenot, s’expliquent principalement par les guerres de religion du 15 au 17ème siècle (notamment du massacre de la Saint-Barthélémy en 1572 à la révocation de l’édit de Nantes en 1685).
Le livre de Tracy Chevalier, La Vierge en bleu, raconte justement cette migration d’une famille Tournier du Languedoc-Roussillon vers la Suisse au XVIème siècle [merci à Steve, du Connecticut (U.S.A.), pour m’avoir fait découvrir ce livre, dont Pierre Chartrand a publié un sympathique compte-rendu de lecture].
D’après le livre de Laurent Fordant, Atlas des noms de famille en France, publié chez Archives & Culture, avec 10735 naissances sur un siècle, Tournier serait le 476ième nom le plus porté en France et on le retrouverait dans :
•81 départements entre 1891 et 1915,
•80 départements entre 1916 et 1940,
•88 départements entre 1941 et 1965,
•94 départements entre 1966 et 1990.
Les statistiques de l’INSEE permettent de retracer la migration des Tournier en France au vingtième siècle :
1891 à 1915 : 2200 naissances 1916 à 1939 : 2514 naissances
1940 à 1965 : 3253 naissances 1966 à 1990 : 2768 naissances
Les zones de plus forte implantation étaient les suivantes :
Période Top des départements Top des communes
1891 – 1915 Doubs, Isère, Jura Besançon, Longchaumois, Vienne
1916 – 1940 Doubs, Isère, Paris Besançon, Paris, Vienne
1941 – 1965 Ain, Doubs, Jura Besançon, Bourg en Bresse, Poligny
1966 – 1990 Doubs, Haute-Savoie, Rhône Annecy, Besançon, Lyon
Tournier of course has a lot to do with trees, timber, wood etc., just the same connotations as the English family name Turner.
So, some some elements of the Tournier family would be ‘incomers’ in Haute Savoie, whereas the Molliers would be much more deeply rooted in those there hills!
Blue
I don’t think that’s “our Maurice”. Different parents.
But there is another thing. If Jean-Paul is around about the same age as his wife (54) then he would have been born at around 1959
And his father (so those other records show) would be Maurice Communal Tournier and….
That bit is unclear. It says “Chappelet ?”.
Maurice would be 44 when Jean-Paul was born (if George François is his father).
There had been a war on….and Maurice would have been of “fighting age”.
So where was he during the WWII ?
He could have later met and married “Chappelet” (but why is there a question mark next to her name ? Where the records destroyed ? A lot was destroyed at the time).
James
I dont think that Chappelet is a name. Chappelet is their address in lathuile.
La Porte is the first house in Lathuile at the crossing of rue de la porte and rue de Chappelet.
Wrong me.
Chappelet is a name and they have their own street in lathuile, too.
Fernande Communal Tournier nee Chappelet, see:
http://www.libramemoria.com/avis/?Commune=Lathuile
Blue…
How strange it appears as his “wife” !
So who did he marry ? And when was he born ? Is he a Communal or a Tournier ?
We know (assume) he was an only child. And we know he had two children.
Why is there a “gapping hole” here ?
And what happened after George Francois died in WWI ?
Oh well done to you Blue !
Now we can look some more. And only in 2012 !
Then Mollier’s murder. Then Nicole Communal-Tournier’s murder !
That has to be odd doesn’t it ?
“CHAPPELET Fernande Marie, veuve de Maurice François COMMUNAL-TOURNIER, le 25 avril 2012”
http://www.lathuile.fr/wp-content/fichiers/bulletinsmunicipaux/BulletinN22-Janvier2013.PDF?PHPSESSID=c2ddbc2668df18e22cb84018238e9516
The very bottom of the page.
“Maurice Francois”. Is that a link to “George Francois” again ?
Is/was Maurice a Tournier ?
And 93.
She was born in 1919.
Which is “bang on” the approx. year that Maurice was born (1915/1916).
So George Francois was killed approx. January 5th 1915 whilst in The Somme.
Maurice had to be born at the latest in the September of that year.
If he was born in 1916…. then he is a Tournier.
Spring/summer 2012 !
I wonder if that is just a coincidence….or a catalyst for other events ?
Right near Chevaline is the “village” of Marlens.
And their mayor is Michel Chappelet.
Just for info re names in that area.
Everyone around there seems to be on a council or committee of so shape of form.
http://www.les-villes.fr/marlens.html
http://www.bottin-administratif.fr/index.php?RID=98&intercom_idt=38846&type=com&limit=50
On the 50th Anniversary, watch this film made only two years after the event, as a grim reminder of how the truth is traduced to fulfil Government objectives, then apply it to Chevaline. Are such travesties of justice still permitted. You bet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnzpDZDnvNY
http://inquiringminds.cc/bush-on-kennedy-tim-veater
James
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/somme.htm
Must have been a pretty bad time in Somme.
Incidentally Germany arrested 3 Haute Savoie “Tournier” family members in WW2 and they were brought to Buchenwald. (Buchenwald files). I had posted the link before.