The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
I found a snippet naming Liam. Unfortunately it was a NOTW article so now not viewable but the headline was along the lines of Players face £1 million security bill for protecting their wags”.
So International Security provided security to footballers at some point I’m assuming.
@Y
Thanks for posting all the Indymedia quotes, I hadn’t seen them before. A lot of that info was repeated in the mainstream media – do they copy and paste Indymedia?
Your article contains a number of basic errors, though. Too tired to point them out now but might get around to it tomorrow, if I can be bothered.
Are you anti-conspiracy “per se”? Certainly sounds like it.
By the way, you forgot to mention that the D Notice plotters (your conspiracy theory, incidentally) must have brought their crystal ball with them…
@Bluebird
On http://www.britishsecurity.com you can find all names of security personell in the uk.
Unfortunately there is no brett martin listed. I checked the waybackmachine, too.
Thanks, but why would Brett Martin be listed on a security personnel website? He was in the RAF…
From pipl.com
Players face £1m security bill for protecting their WAGs. … Liam Nammock, director of protection specialists International Security Ltd, said: “All high-profile players …
[ ENGLAND STARS’ KIDNAP TERROR | News Of The World
(From pipl.com)
Players face £1m security bill for protecting their WAGs. … Liam Nammock, director of protection specialists International Security Ltd, said: “All high-profile players …
ENGLAND STARS’ KIDNAP TERROR News Of The World
@Ferret
Can’t say if mainstream media copy and paste – I live in France so don’t look at the British press too often.
Yes I’ll happily admit that that I have created a conspiracy theory – it was a deliberate double entendre. So, that would perhaps suggest that Im not against conspiracy theories ‘per se’.
Look forward to arguing my ‘basic errors’ with you.
@ferret
There are ex raf and ex military guys working for private security firms. Brett would be only one of many. Unfortunately he isnt listed there.
@Y
Can’t say if mainstream media copy and paste – I live in France so don’t look at the British press too often.
Look on the MSM internet sites then. Would you accept that if the MSM report something then they got it from somewhere else, and not from Indymedia?
Yes I’ll happily admit that that I have created a conspiracy theory – it was a deliberate double entendre. So, that would perhaps suggest that Im not against conspiracy theories ‘per se’.
OK. What about ones that involve government cover-ups, are those OK with you too?
@Bluebird
Ah OK, see your logic there. He didn’t work as a security guard/consultant though, which is why I wouldn’t have thought of it… his work at Silver Fern was as an investor in futures and options (so it says) and then he got the house in France to let out. Oh, and in recent year(s) he did a little flight training.
@Anders
Did you notice this priceless exchange earlier?
Peter
4 Oct, 2012 – 11:02 am
We know it’s about zirconium because one of those killed worked with the stuff.
That’s the trouble. Apart from a shared love of cycling and working in industries of strategic interest, it is very difficult to see any commonalities, any areas of potential overlap, between SAH and SM. (And, yes, I do remember that SAH did a number of student internships in a nuclear lab and was interested in a job at CERN. That doesn’t make him a zirconium / hafnium expert, though.)
Ferret
4 Oct, 2012 – 11:22 am
@Peter
Correct…
That would make him an expert in …. what?
Peter
4 Oct, 2012 – 11:27 am
Let’s set the question of whether or not this was about zirconium, novel nuclear weapons, espionage satellites etc. aside for a moment and ask ourselves: How could SM and SAH have met, and what (if anything) might have motivated them to work together. I really cannot see any good answers to those questions – can you?
@Anders
And this one…
Ferret
4 Oct, 2012 – 10:47 am
Dave is the new Katie!
😀
Rumbled!!!
Dave Brooker
4 Oct, 2012 – 10:51 am
“Dave is the new Katie!”
You sound like howling mad anders when you come up with these conspiracies.
Stop it.
Ferret
4 Oct, 2012 – 10:57 am
“Dave is the new Katie!”
You sound like howling mad anders when you come up with these conspiracies.
Now, Dave, that was a tell-tale mistake. Or actually, two mistakes in one. Bet you wish you could delete THAT post, eh!
(Or maybe Jon will do it for you.)
Want to know why?
Surprisingly, he didn’t ask why!!!
Not that I’m going to tell him, mind you. He’s good – but not that good. And I’m certainly not going to help him improve!!!
Good night all… if anyone else is still up… night shift at Vauxhall? Anyone???
Don’t think this photo has been mentioned here.
{http://www.siol.net/novice/crna_kronika/2012/09/je_bil_kolesar_glavna_tarca_streljanja_v_francoskih_alpah.aspx}
It was posted on {http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/}
Sorry, should add the photo in the first link is not pleasant and said to be taken at the crime scene.
Double sorry – on the same blog the photo has been ID’d as being a traffic accident.
@Wryman
Thanks for that – excellent work.
No shirt on the dead person on the ground? Mollier? Bullet wound in his (arm? chest?) Hard to make out.
@Ferret – See my apology above. Sloppy posting by me of a piece of sloppy journalism in the first place. The Slovenian website has used a photo from another incident on their Chevaline article. It’s led to some interesting speculation on the blog where I first read it.
@Y
4 Oct, 2012 – 10:47 pm
Very useful to read your rebuttals to Spook Watcher’s claims on the Indymedia site. Thanks for that. On the other hand the content of the alleged DA does appear to be rigourously being adhered to, not only by the MSM in the UK but arouond the world
STOP PRESS: Here’s the latest from the MSM:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9587454/French-Alps-shooting-will-take-very-long-time-to-solve.html
OK, don’t hold your breath.
I just used the “view all pages” options and searhed for “Yassar Al saffar, and here is what Bluebird wrote on the 2nd of October:
So which is it then. Is Yasser the brother of Ikbal and is he the same Yasser as the one who is Senior Economist at the Bank of England?
@Wryman
Ah OK, thanks for clarifying. Have you got a link to the site where the photo was orginally used, in the context of the RTA?
I’m curious why the police are wearing shell suits… and why there appears to be a bullet wound on the victim.
Are the police afraid they might shed fibres? If so, why? Are fibres the key to solving an RTA?
@M69
On the other hand the content of the alleged DA does appear to be rigourously being adhered to, not only by the MSM in the UK but arouond the world
Well said.
🙂
@Y
Personally, I prefer to take the opposite view and to ask myself “what if all of those statements are true?” And then start to look at what fits from the stories and what can find out.
I think M69 has put it in a nutshell. The major point for me is that if the writer of the leaked D Notice was making it up, I would have to ask him or her who’s going to win the 3.30 today at Haydock Park because they seem to have the gift of prophesy!
😀
And… I thought you said you’d followed thread 1 closely but not participated? Or do I remember wrongly?
@Y
First, the Indymedia release you refer to:
06.09.2012 12:47 The failure of the British government to protect Saad al Hilli and his family was thrown into stark focus this week when they were gunned down by agents of the Israeli security services while on holiday in Chevaline near Lake Annecy in South West France. al Hilli’s work with the Iraqi nuclear program was under duress as a result of Saddam’s Husseins threats against his family, there is no evidence he did it willingly.
Once he fled to the UK he had a right to expect protection from Israel and yet his trip was without any from UK or French police despite his repeated requests for some. He knew he had been targeted for assassination by Israel to prevent his knowledge reaching Iran and yet there was no evidence that he had continued his work or that he was working with Iran, his trip to Tehran was for religious reasons to visit the city of Qom. – Indymedia, quoted by Y
Now your comments:
When was al Hilli working on the Iraqi nuclear programme? At the age of 9 or 10 in the 1970′s before his family fled Iraq?
There is some controversy around the age at which SAH came to the UK, but putting that aside for a moment there is an answer to this question which you would know if you’d followed Thread 1 closely. I thought you’d said you had in your initial post?
Given the extremely limited amount of information available about Al Hilli at the time it’s amazing how much “Spook Watcher”, the poster, knows about him. So the statement is a fake which makes the visit to Qom a fake.
Well… no. These are not logical deductions. The fact that we don’t know where the author got his/her information from means… well, just that. We don’t know where she/he got it from. Period. It does not neccesarily IMPLY that it’s fake, which is your assertion. So this is an unproven theory of yours, rather than a logical conclusion. It is equally possible that the author had an alternate source, one that had not come out in the media at that time.
The rest of your analysis, while seemingly logical, is riddled with similar errors. If you fix up the logic in your argument and admit your conjecture where it is such, rather than claiming it to be logical conclusions, then perhaps we’ll have something to debate.
@ A. Wryman 5 Oct, 2012 – 1:09 am
“@Ferret – See my apology above. Sloppy posting by me of a piece of sloppy journalism in the first place. The Slovenian website has used a photo from another incident on their Chevaline article. It’s led to some interesting speculation on the blog where I first read it.”
We all got sucked into that, because someone cropped the original pic so it “could have” been Chevaline, it “rang true” and the Slovenian page, perhaps in an honest mistake, identified the body as SM. The UK press didn’t use that pic, but they did (at least the Daily Mail), use another pic from the Corsican accident, as if it were Chevaline.
The MSM does quote unreliable sources. In the early days of Chevaline one French MSM page, quoted “an expert” who is one of 50,000 freelancers on what looks like a legitimate US news page. And here we quote the Huffington Post, another conglomeration of freelancers, as well as the always flexy WikiPedia. Read the edit pages for a chuckle. Did you know, at least briefly, the comedian Conan O’Brien’s father was a “pizza delivery man” and his mother was “majure in flamingos.”
So when it comes to sources anything anyone says here is as likely to be true or untrue as what’s “officially” reported in the MSM. As someone mentioned re UK libel law, all that’s needed is for another source to go first. Like, Murdoch’s UK Sun quotes Perez Hilton’s page, then all join the mob.
@ Kenneth Sorensen 4 Oct, 2012 – 11:42 am
“Now I say “openly” – because I don’t know how sloppy he was — but it is possible that they used skype, which is encrypted,- and Saad thought this was enough [But perhaps it >strong>can be read by intelligence services?”
Yes, strong can be read by GHCQ, NSA, Echelon, etc., but it’s a well known fact among world famous spies that they can’t read plain-text, like AOL IM and such. Those can only be deciphered by world-famous hackers. [My little joke]
Gary Aked says SAH first chatted in open groups re anti-zionist stuff. If he is to be believed, why has no one found the “chat logs?”
Slighty O/T, but not really as it is to do with injunctions and the media.
Kudos to Mr Justice Tugendhat for overturning Freddie Starr’s preposterous interim injunction.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/04/freddie-starr-itv-injunction
‘The Guardian remains unable to report the allegation for legal reasons, notwithstanding the fact that it is denied by Starr. The allegation has not been described in open court.’
However once again the blogosphere is ahead of the msm and the courts, and from the comments I’ve seen it has something to do with Jimmy Savile and Gary Glitter.
@Bluebird
A hunch… perhaps RAFman worked for Squadron Ltd (or intended to) and got registered as a private eye? Are there any publicly-available registers of private eyes in the UK? Just a wild guess, of course…
@NR
OK, thanks for that. Are you sure it was a Corsican traffic accident? Corsican mafia hit would fit better with what the photo shows… but either way, point taken – media can and do get it wrong.
@Ferret 5 Oct, 2012 – 7:12 am
@Wryman
“Ah OK, thanks for clarifying. Have you got a link to the site where the photo was orginally used, in the context of the RTA?
I’m curious why the police are wearing shell suits… and why there appears to be a bullet wound on the victim.
Are the police afraid they might shed fibres? If so, why? Are fibres the key to solving an RTA?”
The originals are at this link. Apparently it was a Corsican mafia hit, with wrecked cars.
http://www.tvi.iol.pt/fotos/272970/4
@Thomas
At the Saad Al-Hilli memorial facebook page, there is still a comment from Pietro Malandrucco
http://www.facebook.com/pietro.malandrucco
Pietro Malandrucco
We were colleagues and friends at Elekta, he was the nicest man.
Saad I will always remember you.
Like · · 10 September at 22:18
@Ferret/Dopey
Why would this small husband & wife business on the South Coast where the family have lived since 1997 and raised a family, with local “web designers” for their business, be registered in South Ken, and come to have accountants there?? You have a good point there, Ferret. Good work on 55 Rutland Gate, btw. Still something not quite right. Are there more accounts than 2010 available for Silver Fern?
Message on FB from Elektra is still there….
Pietro Malandrucco
We were colleagues and friends at Elekta, he was the nicest man.
Saad I will always remember you.
Like · · September 10 at 11:18pm
What about this
Clarence Oddman
saad im gonna miss you mate-why oh why was ur life was cut short so cruely god only knows-and ur poor daughters god bless them in every way lemans will never be the same without you bruv-and if the team u were part of ever have another race we will always leave a space for u-u will be sorley missed-all the boys and girls are so shocked and sadend but we know u and iqicky are in a better place-rest in peace saad wherever you are we love you bro..
LEMANS ? Cycling ?
Clearly hundreds have visited that page & have done from the start, another error by the media.
Hamilton Aviation/Capital Group registered in a block of flats in Chelsea.626, Samuel Lewis Trust Dwellings
London SW3 3QE
Benjamin Jeremy Cannell b 1985 of Gt Bookham KT23 4HL.