The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Eric the Patsy – he is lucky Jacque Diamante didn’t pay him a visit…but there is still time eh? nothing like layer cake conspiracy….
You may have a point Mochyn69
22 Feb, 2014 – 4:52 am! As I have tried to illustrate throughout, this story is shot through with contradiction from the word go. Perhaps at the beginning the French had the extenuation of confusion. That excuse does not exist now, but with every revelation, not clarity but more obscuration. I don’t think this can all be down to incompetence although some may be. It seems more intentional to me just to obscure the reality.
I too have puzzled about these three new photos and how they came to be published now. As I mentioned it is not clear when any of them were taken. I don’t believe for a moment that family one was taken at 3.15 on the day of the murders. If conclusive proof, notably never provided to the public, could be provided that it was, it would support your theory of them not even being there Mochyn as there is practically no way they could get from one place to the other in the time frame.
The two remaining photos of the car park appear to be taken from ground and air about the same time, but we can’t be sure the time. Was it between 4 and dusk on the fifth or between say 8 and noon on the 6th? The slight shadow from car and body suggest morning rather than evening as they are towards the NW. Nothing can be seen inside the car although the objects on the driver’s side are intriguing. Only the DM seems to have kept the photos on its website of the ones I checked out.
The photos seem to support bleeding to Mollier’s RHS head and shoulder yet no blood on the rest of the torso. This at least raises a question mark given the stated heart injury. The other point I would make is if as appears this is a morning photo, the body had to lie undisturbed overnight exposed to the elements. Blood quickly goes brown in contact with the air so I find the bright red colouration somewhat suspicious.
Final point raised by Bleb above in relation to tyre marks, this photo in contrast to earlier DM photo, shows radial marks that appear to have been made by SAH’s BMW reversing into park. This tyre mark is quite distinct and different to the bold ones to the right. As we have discussed in the past these are clearly from two different vehicles.
photos at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561919/Man-arrested-France-connection-murder-British-family-French-Alps.html
As to those indistinct items next to the driver’s door, are they a top and cycling helmet? The item closer to the camera certainly has the shape of a helmet. The item further away appears to be black and white. Comparison with Mollier’s cycling suggest it might match. Cyclists are into co-ordinated gear so it would fit. Of course the question arises, if they are, what are they doing there? It is where all early reports placed Mollier when found. Did WBM drag him from there to where the photo shows him? If he was by the driver’s door when shot, we have to postulate a quite different scenario.
Here’s a recent Figaro report and video. The first time in the brief opening bit, approaching assembled vehicles in lower car park. Is that communication dishes on top of some of them. But of more note is the reiteration, Mollier and bike were found next to driver’s door. If this is right how come he ends up the other side? Surely WBM would have taken M all that way. If he was found there he couldn’t have been hit by a vehicle. Then how did he break his rib(s) plus all the other problems?
The passports were missing because someone was using them? Something to think about, Mochyn69.
@Tim V 1:22 pm: A long time ago, I posted a video from the morning of Sept. 5, 2012 in Chevaline/Ugine. It was foggy and rainy, and yet now we know from the “last photo” that the family was not dressed for a foggy, rainy day. Weather changes quickly in the mountains, but from what I recall of the tourist’s video, the weather had been overcast and drizzling for days.
I don’t know why parents of young children would take them for a walk on such a day. It also doesn’t make sense to go out driving in search of scenic vistas on an overcast, drizzly day. More fun would be going to a shop for ice cream, and staying indoors. Did they bring along rain boots, jackets and umbrellas? If they intended to have a picnic in the drizzle, surely they would have needed some sort of outerwear to keep the girls dry and warm. Or the photo was not taken on the same day or at the time we have been told….
Time is running out. The investigation will become a cold case at the end of 2014:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/alhilli-massacre-former-police-officer-questioned-over-alps-killings-is-cleared-9143985.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/alps-massacre-family-shot-dead-by-balkan-mercenary-for-1680-witness-claims-8799398.html
“Twenty one bullets were fired at the BMW in which the Al-Hillis were sitting but none damaged its bodywork. Instead, they passed through a car window before finding their targets.
At least five other bullets ended up in the body of Mr Mollier.”
If you zoom in on the al-Hilli vehicle, there does appear to be damage to the hood and roof, as well as the passenger side of the vehicle. The trim and side panels seem to have taken hits. There is no sign of blood in the vehicle, although something red is in the trunk.
This article claims that there were at least 26 shots fired, possibly more.
Good points that I haven’t seen expressed here before Q
22 Feb, 2014 – 9:17 pm. If this photo was taken only 15 minutes before they were shot dead, it is indeed apposite what they are wearing and how the weather compares. Needless to say all the first responders will be aware if the clothes is identical or not. However not a whisper from any of them which makes the claimed anonymous Panorama NFA whistle blower very suspicious.
So a couple of outlandish suggestions:
1. All the adult occupants off and away with their passports, Mollier flushed out and shot, or alternatively his death staged as well. Given all the circumstances this seems to me to be highly unlikely although the absence of any public evidence of bodies and with-holding of photos for so long might support it. Even now we have seen no image of Suhails al Hallaf have we?
2. Mollier shot the occupants of the car from the driver’s side. Mollier in turn gets shot by someone else, then moved. BMW X5 is a support car that arrives when it is realised everything has gone badly wrong. When agent’s safety assured it retires for cover story to run?
Crazy ideas! I think EM would call these “tracks” to be followed up.
Absolutely Q
22 Feb, 2014 – 10:00 pm! There is no explanation for the factual variations in relation to the number of bullets fired – 26, 25, 21, 15 – or the many variations in the number and location of the bullet wounds, or stating that there was no damage to the vehicle from bullets, when clearly for all to see from the photographic images, there was. For this and all the other enumerated reasons, the investigation lacks any credibility, yet there is no will by anyone to challenge what has been claimed. There must be a political reason for this.
Charges for trafficking illegal weapons laid in ED case. Jean-Luc Falcy named as ED’s friend; charges pending against him:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10656205/Ex-policeman-arrested-over-al-Hilli-family-murder-charged-with-trafficking-weapons.html
I went looking for the Falcy surname in the area and came up with a luxe rental house in Veyrier-du-Lac:
http://www.ownersdirect.co.uk/france/FR2699.htm
This is probably just a coincidence, nothing at all, and completely unrelated.
Q
22 Feb, 2014 – 9:17 pm
You are right to question that last photo…taken by mother in law, I assume.
Firstly I question why is it so blurred, the children are pixelated but the rest is poor quality, secondly, AH looks much younger & slimmer than the photo posted in every article,thirdly, all four are in casual clothing, yet every report in the early days said they were ‘dressed up’ & not dressed for walking.
Finally, you can see it’s sunny & warm not misty…oh & no date shows on the pic,but maybe it has been cropped.
We had been having hot & sunny weather before these murders, I suggest that’s when this pic was taken.
Another thing, when I try to trace that photo’s location,this is what I get:
‘Image GPS Data – Where Was That Picture Taken?
‘The file either contains incomplete or no GPS data.’
http://gpsimage.campusactivist.com
The only info which comes up on Google images is the BFM TV station.
@ Katie: “Where Was That Picture Taken? ”
Solved by ‘Shadwell’ at ‘Deadzone61’ several days ago.
https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=chevaline&hl=fr&ie=UTF8&ll=45.765532,6.221974&spn=0.003622,0.013304&hnear=Chevaline,+Haute-Savoie,+Rh%C3%B4ne-Alpes&gl=fr&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.765536,6.221968&panoid=Zpa2hTYNwZQ5vGbp3IACng&cbp=11,237.05,,0,0
Guess who shows up for the “party”? late in the new year, too.
Been absent for way too long, I know. But we all have our reasons to be or to be elsewhere, don’t we? I haven’t caught up yet with all the great posts here or with the unfolding events, but I did notice that several other long-lost friends dropped in as well – Ferret, Straw, NR – hello there all!
Tim V, you have been indefatigueable all this time I see, as has Bluebird and Q – kudos to you all and gold medals for persistence (yes, I admit I watch the Olympics…).
let me just say that I totally agree with you Tim V that the storyline as presented most recently is utterly unbelievable – though I just barely got through some of the stories. Bordering on the nonsensical, really. Also, as you might guess I do see the same old pattern in play – the French/English cross-purposes.
And Q – isn’t it funny how that old theory of ‘extraction” and/or “killed elsewhere and re-staged or whatever, keeps rearing its head. It simply can’t be excluded, even after all this time. I think even Tim V may be “weakening” if barely – improbable – yes, but still possible.
Am so far behind I can’t add much, but I’ll mention couple of my good old conspiracy theories. I went to check on what’s been happening on MZT too and lo and behold, marilyn seems to have closed it down, at least for comments. The last bout was for a November thread where new posters named Steve and patrick had perfectly excellent discussions, going over much of the same grounds we have been, though with some alternative conjectures I haven’t seen before.. And Qui put in references to some interesting blog posts he had on the Booman (I’ll provide links when I get around to it later. Busy watching bobsleigh now – sorry. So riveting! why didn’t i think of doing something like this once?). Marilyn closed the thread claiming acrimony but it all came from only one corner – our old friend james, doing his usual provocative thing. My theory? simple – MZT comment forum was a set-up to have some smart people come up with possible scenarios including the ever-favorite lone “nutter”) that perhaps could be used to pin the crime on somehow on somebody. That was the only way to explain why any time someone would pop in with an alternative scenario, like a second SUV at the layby, or an arranged meeting, marilyn and Linda would visibly bristle, then run them out of town. Interestingly, the old crowd seems to have been gone by November – Lars, max, Eugene and Linda – and the new group – Patrick and Steve – along with partlucid and peter – seemed to have embarked on the same direction we have all been on for lo so many months. basically – the lone MC killer or lone gunman popping in with an old luger just did not make a credible scenario, when one looked at all the evidence as we have it, coupled with motives and set-ups. Seeing that, Marilyn has shut the thread down, claiming offense at some acrimony where none seemed to be in evidence. The only update on MZT since was some reference to a column by Qui at Booman from February regarding the new developments. Well, I should give her the benefit of the doubt – may be just got tired of maintaining the blog?
IConspiracy or not, I do find it interesting how closely the detained ex-policeman/motorcyclist fits some of the previously suggested scenarios on MZT. Alas, EM could not make it stick – could he? so there goes that.
The confusion with regard to the recent details – many in direct conflict with previously released details – seems all but deliberately promulgated. Kick up a dust storm and hope we’ll all just go away. All the more reason I am so glad to see the perseverance by you all. Even I found it hard to match.
More later (that bobsleigh business, gotta keep up…)
@ all
Did you realize that the bootlid in the latest pix is (still) closed?
forgot to link to this one:
Chevaline : «Un complot», selon le beau-père de l’ex-policier interpellé
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/chevaline-un-complot-selon-le-beau-pere-du-l-ex-policier-interpelle-20-02-2014-3609623.php
Falcy family:
They are one of the oldest families in Lathuile.
They run a hotel in Lathuile (hotel de la foret) and a french restaurant in Lathuile (Gerard Falcy and Ariane Falcy-Millet. There are mountain guides in Lathuile with the name “Falcy” and one of them is a custody of water and forests of the environment.
Lionel Falcy is participant of the municipality of Lathuile. I copy a google translation of one of his municipality letters.
Address of Jean Luc Falcy:
414 Chemin des Fontaines, 74210 Lathuile
Letter of lionel Falcy (google translation):
Dear politicians, We know very little and we live in a relative lack of understanding. For my part, I have to heart to express my action with clarity so that each judge my motivations. I’m Lathuileis a chance, but I know that the village. Whether to classify me in sociology, I’m just a hillbilly from families Falcy, Millet and Aymonnier. For generations, we have maintained close links with all the families in our country. Inserted into the social fabric, attached to our community, we have and we are still bound to the joys sorrows of our neighbors. With great kindness CARRERA Isabelle asked me to participate in “a history of the village committee.” Circumstances require too everyone’s attention so that I can now devote myself, “Lathuile today has become a priority.” In the field the past, I simply point out that if in the village I heard some arguments, I have never seen violence between its inhabitants. It is a peculiarity of our own to integrate our new neighbors with respect. This value I am particularly attached and you elected to Lathuile, you are above all our neighbors, and by the fact that you belong to our community. Your team elected on the basis of a similar team of our election program totally gives me confidence. To such an extent that I was convinced that you had a project and public green space in the heart of the village as in all other building areas. For reasons I do not know, these projects do not materialize It’s not too late, you elected this is your responsibility, that I as a responsible citizen to future and current generations. For Pontgibaud, we will propose a coherent project that combines green space, public and private, and benefits for those who want to maintain here and in the law of the market can not. I ask you to listen to us and work together. I have no dissension against you, and it is necessary that the residents of other real estate projects mobilize us. Our team had she been elected, would have invited volunteers to work with it and it is with joy that we would be sitting at a communal table. I lend you the same intentions. I wish for an initial working contact you to participate in our first meeting this Friday, March 19 at Forest restaurant at 20:30. Let artisans of peace, solidarity and constructive future.
Sincerely, Lionel Falcy
Jean Luc Falcy is a construction worker from Lathuile.
Hmmm ….
Weren’t there some construction workers blocking the road ?????
How many do they have in Lathuile/Doussard?
Lionel Falcy is/was a minister in the government of Savoie.
http://notre.savoie.free.fr/infos/inf518.htm
Just a note to understand the local influence of that family.
Thanks Anon.
Did you find the location through the photo or just with Google satellite ?
If through the photo alone, was it dated ?
Maillard said it was taken minutes before they were killed,but they showed us a large house with flowers on that occasion.
Image searches usually show a date if they find the pic.
Thanks for that Anonymus
23 Feb, 2014 – 9:25 am. Call me old fashioned but after looking carefully at that family photograph and particularly the direction of the shadows, I would be prepared to suggest that it was taken a significant time after 3.15 in the afternoon. The photo is taken from the east (in fact probably EbN!) and the building is orientated SW/NE roughly. The shadow cast by the building is almost directly opposite, i.e. sun due west. Dependent on the time of year but presumably summer, this must put the time as LATE afternoon at least. A local with local knowledge could put the matter to rest, but that’s my best shot on it. At 3.15 the sun would only be just past due south illuminating that whole south face or am I wrong?
WELCOME BACK Marlin
23 Feb, 2014 – 10:09 am. I’ve missed you at least!!! Some of us have persevered to keep the thread active and thanks to Craig/Jon it is. The recent charades have of course helped. Now to read your, no doubt interesting, contribution.
Marlin thanks for that overview of the MZT situation. At the time we noted it had closed down on a weak excuse. As you say maybe she just got bored or found better things to do with her time, but if so why not use the real reason? The fact that she had to invent an excuse rather gives the lie to the whole thing in my view. It was a Linda/Marilyn axis EM support group that could broach no alternative to the official line (whatever it happened to be!) I thought. It would be interesting to know if MZT has benefited in any way? Of course we shall never know.
Shelock
23 Feb, 2014 – 10:27 am you win today’s prize for observation. lol
The other point to note perhaps is that if this was the 3.15 photo used by police to support their theory, it is on Route du Moulin that joins up with Combe d’Ire ABOVE Chevaline and thereby missing the builder’s fairly reliable report of them being held up before passing them before 3 pm. The ONLY way this could work is if they doubled back, as discussed, took the photo and immediately rushed back. So 1. does it look the sort of place you would take a special detour just for a momentary stop and photo? and 2. do they really look to be in a sweaty race against the clock to get back to their appointment with death? The answer to both of those is an emphatic NO I’m thinking. And as Katie has pointed out, it’s a completely different building to the one previously suggested. Did they stop at TWO then making the timing even more unlikely.
Compare and contrast with the Jill Dando murder in which a “lone nut” who liked guns was eventually (8 yrs) released from goal and his verdict repealed. Similar distinct vehicle seen rushing away but could not be identified. Dark haired person seen by “main man”. Lots of response to photo-fit but wrong person arrested and found guilty. Suggestion killer might be Serbian or a criminal or a cop. Boyfriend gets promoted to Royal position. Detective in charge is put in charge of Yewtree. Links to child pornography/exploitation/Savile/Elm Guest House.Police make many ‘procedural’ mistakes including not interviewing neighbours. Unusual gun used but never found. Head shots in cold blood in daylight hours. Inside information (she didn’t return home very often)All enquiries draw blank other than identifying innocent man (patsie?) Just another example of standard protocol????????????
“Scotland Yard have today (April, 2013) announced they’re closing the investigation into Jill Dando’s brutal murder.
Have they looked again at evidence that Jill was investigating VIP child abuse in the UK?
“Have they chased up all sightings of a blue metallic range rover that sped off from the crime scene?
“Alan Farthing Jill’s fiance,claims he came face to face with Jill’s killer in a range rover just before she was gunned down but didn’t tell the police:
“Dr Alan Farthing thought nothing of the dark-haired man acting as a lookouts, at in a Range-Rover parked near his London house as he left for work on Monday.
“A police source said: “We feel very sorry for Dr Farthing. It has caused him great pain to think he could have seen the killer.
“The man in the Range-Rover is now thought to have been stalking Jill, 37, and tipped off his accomplice via a mobile phone when she finally left in her blue BMW on Monday morning to return to her own home in nearby Gowan.Avenue
“They believe the driver was supposed to pick up the fleeing gunman after the shooting but panicked and sped off instead.
“Jill was killed at 11.32am on her doorstep and close-circuit TV cameras filmed a blue Range Rover careering out of Doneraile Street, opposite Gowan Avenue, at 11.50.
“The car turned into Fulham Palace Road so fast it leaned over, before roaring through a red traffic light on Putney Bridge.
“The number plate could not be made out, but a witness confirmed it was driven by a dark-haired man.
“Detectives revealed yesterday that a computer-generated ”E-fit” photo of the gunman had prompted a flood of calls from members of the public.
“A Scotland Yard spokesman said: ”We have received more than 1,000 calls since the murder.
”But at the moment we cannot give out any more information because this is an on-going investigation.”
“Det Supt John Stewardson, who headed the inquiry, has now offered his help to the team probing Jill’s murder.
“The murder hunt took another twist when detectives admitted her assassin could be a COP.
“They fear Jill may have been murdered by an obsessed policeman who met her through her Crimewatch work.
“The cool and calculated way the murder was carried out points to someone with a good knowledge of crime scenes.
“The source went on: “The killer tipped the odds in his favour and knew he would be able to escape without being covered in blood.
“He knew how to slip away and resume his normal daily routine without attracting any suspicion
“The way he limited the clues and forensic evidence he left at the house points to a man who knows what goes on at a crime scene.
“The experts in this field are criminals and police – and BOTH lines of inquiry are being pursued.””
http://thecolemanexperience.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/did-alan-farthing-come-face-to-face-with-jill-dandos-killer/
http://thecolemanexperience.wordpress.com/2013/04/13/why-was-cliff-richard-interviewedby-jill-dando-murder-detectives/
http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/jill-dando-murdered-by-state-to-keep.html
http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/jill-dando-murdered-by-state-to-keep.html
@Katie: Good point about not being “dressed up”, as was claimed. Not only does the weather in the photo not match the day, neither do the clothes. They were not dressed for drizzle, but they were not “dressed up”. The sun may have broken through the clouds at some point in the day, but surely the family didn’t drive back to their tent to changes clothes in the meantime.
As you say, the house with flowers that was previously said to be the “last photo” site is not the one in the “last photo” we are now seeing.
How did Eric Maillaud think the family’s last photo was too awful to be seen? Was he stalling until a “final photo” of some sort could be found?
@Shelock: If they hadn’t opened the boot yet, presumably the little one was still hidden under her mother’s skirts (Mrs. a-H was wearing a skirt in the “last photo”: presumably why that photo was chosen). And yet, we see no sign of anyone in the back seat, nor any blood.
@Bluebird: Ah, so the Falcy family is the non-hyphenated “hillbilly” variety. It’s probably nothing but a coincidence, but I discovered the Falcy surname in the wine country of Burgundy, too.
As for the construction, and the road being blocked by construction as mentioned previously, we cannot overlook other construction angles to this story, like a certain WBM whose cottage had undergone construction, or the major undertaking of the Dordogne reconstruction project by Saad al-Hilli. Of course we already know that Eric D. has been photographed doing construction.
@Marlin: I have only recently returned myself, because I could not keep quiet when ED was arrested. Of course I was familiar with the “D” surname from Chamonix/Argentiere, having just watched a certain skiier at the Olympics.
As for that forum closing, what is not often discussed is posts that were eliminated, and their posters banned after posting non-offensive comments that didn’t seem to concur with the moderators’ version of events. Good on you, Craig, for allowing varying points of view, whether or not you agree with them, as long as civility prevails.