Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278

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The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis”

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  • Q

    I noted, Tim V, that the French equivalent of the SAS is the unit the missing Stan Maillaud once belonged to. There are two possible connections, as I see it, between that unit and the story at Chevaline: Denis Favier and WBM. There is no proof of any kind that any of these individuals have ever crossed paths.

    “En avril 2008, il participe notamment à l’opération Thalathine, qui vise à libérer les otages du voilier Le Ponant, retenus par des pirates somaliens. Au cours de cette mission, il est tarponné (parachuté en pleine mer) afin de rejoindre les navires de la Marine nationale.”

    All have some connection with airborne regiments. It’s a possible link, but a weak one at the moment.

    As for why Denis Favier was in the Haute-Savoie at all, I have been reading about the connections between certain radical movements in Corsica and “le Milieu” in France. Chambery, Grenoble and Marseille are part of the turf. With Denis Favier’s previous Marseille experience, this might be the reason he was chosen for Haute-Savoie. “Le Milieu” is said to be connected to the usual activities of such organizations, including arms trafficking and human trafficking. This in turn makes me wonder about the antique weapons smuggling charges and the missing passports. We have Suhaila: did she ever have a funeral, shroud or not? Why haven’t we seen a photo of her? Was she being removed to somewhere? The whole story about the sudden vacation at school time and a sudden trip to France with grandma could have involved grandma’s need to go somewhere, possibly with the help of an organization that could get her there, KWIM.

    The sudden demise of the Savoyard separatist movement led by Patrice Abeille, followed by Patrice Abeille’s sudden death, is too much of a coincidence. Are there any known connections between the separatists of the Haute-Savoie and radical separatist movements in Corsica? Someone whose French is better than mine might know.

  • bluebird

    Tim V
    25 Feb, 2014 – 5:25 pm
    The pending question is: Why now but not much earlier? 40 years is a long time to wait.

    The answer could be the Germen: They opened their so far secret munich olympic terror investigation files in june 2012 (with names, etc).. From june 2012 there should be enough time for the plans.

  • Q

    Rendezvous in Chevaline to hand off Grandmaman Suhaila for covert transport to an unknown destination? Grandmaman living under an assumed name with an assumed past? Money needed by al-Hilli family to pay for same? Connections between Savoyard separatists and Corsican separatists with ties to “le Milieu” and its covert activities? Sylvain Mollier an innocent bystander or go-between?

  • Tim V

    indeed Bluebird
    25 Feb, 2014 – 10:37 pm. that fact of opening the munich files just a few months prior to the 40th anniversary when suhaila and family with Hezbollah and iraqi links are slaughtered in combe d’ire , when the operation was titled “Wrath of God” is just TOO much of co-incidence, particularly as the modus operandi is so typical, mossad are currently engaged in assassination of scientists and anyone with strategic iranian connections, and such a clear case of confusion and cover up by the french who have a long history of co operating with israel despite periodic shows to the contrary. I’m sure you have come across the term “circumstantial evidence”. I’m not sure how much more we need. Well there’s also a black eye for the hated British at the very place named after its nuclear deterent, now obtained by israel and so desperate to prevent iran getting it. As previously pointed out 40 is alsao part significant to the jewish faith as it is to christianty. forty days and forty nights not to mention forty thieves!

  • bleb

    @Bluebird – re: your “Munich revenge” theory

    I’m not disputing your facts but just for info, do you remember and/or know if Israel claimed responsibility (officially or not) for the killing of other members of the 40? And if so, how long afterwards was the claim made or story planted?

    ie: has Chevaline followed the same pattern, so far, in this respect?

  • Marlin

    Bluebird, Tim V – re the Munich connection and Suhaila. It is of course possible – the “wrath of God” and the exact 40 year anniversary are interesting and tantalizing.

    Let’s think though, if that was what went down, HOW it would be accomplished?

    First, Suhaila would have to be lured somehow out of Sweden. Why she couldn’t be offed there is not clear. May be after Olaf Palme and the Lillienhammer debacle, the Israelis could not risk a mystery killing of an older lady there for some political reasons. There could be a secret agreement with the Swedes – keep your dirty business out of Sweden from here on.

    raises an immediate question: if the only way to get her out of Sweden is to get her to Britain, why couldn’t something be arranged there or on the way there? possibly there was no way of getting her away from family and others?

    Next, if the only way to get to Suhaila is to somehow arrange for a secluded spot somewhere, this would by definition imply presence of her extended family – and again, would be ill-adviced to produce the mayhem in Britain, especially f the Israelis knew (which I’m sure they would) that Saad was a British asset. This smeans a trip must be arranged somewhere else, and the family would need to be considered collateral damage, if caught in the middle.

    However, something about the above scenario doesn’t smell right. Not the Mossad MO – way too much risk with way too many unknowns along the way – they would NOT plan to get rid of the entire family along the way. Not that they care about some ex-Iraqi people or anything. It’s just the risk they’d care about.

    The one (and only) option I see for a more opportunistic scenario where Suhaila is the prime target but weassume that she herself figured out she was in danger, alerting her family in England and asking for help to find a way out. that’s where Saad enters with his special connections. He figures out a way of making Suhaila “disappear” somewhere – far from Sweden and England. Him being a British asset he gets help from his sources and secret arrangements are made to have it all happen in France. Saad likes the idea because he could combine with a trip to Geneva to work on the inheritance issues. So it’s a good cover. May be his british “contacts” agree to help but want something in return – asking him to do something – may be meet with someone to check them out (eg, SM)?

    A complicated plan is put together and the Al Hillis head out on the road caravan and all. Alas, somewhere along the line, the Mossad which has discovered Suhaila’s connections to 40 and had her tailed, intercept whatever phone calls/arrangements are made. Not unlikely the israelis have a direct sieve to GCHQ, since they have one to the NSA, right? may be they have a mole within MI5 who tipped them off. So they make a plan of their own, going as far as posing perhaps as the “means’ to help disappear Suhaila without a trace. The man with a suit arriving in the camp the day before may be related to that – the arrangements require a trip up to Combe d’Ire which Saad doesn’t like – smells too fishy and is not along the lines originally agreed. Hence the heated discussion. A meeting is in the end arranged with certain parties at the Martinet. per saad demands, on the british side, they send WBM along to watch over their asset and ensure the “transaction” proceeds according to plan. saad decides to bring the entire family along in the mistaken belief it’d offer a certain protection.

    Alas, no sooner they arrive that it all goes horribly astray:

    Saad, gets out of the car with zainab, Sylvain arrives by bike – may be unexpectedly, may be not – and the decision is made by the “third” party to gun him down right there and then. Saad realizes it all went terribly wrong, runs for the car and the rest transpires as we know.

    WBM arrives shortly thereafter (he was actually expected to be part of the “deal” may be? as witness?). Unfortunately for him and superiors it was just in time to confirm the british were double crossed.

    While this scenario is super-complicated, it does have some merit: for one, it’d explain why the British are so irked (which clearly they are – or at least they act like they are). It would possibly explain that strange empowering of the Australian agency (always in cahouts with the brits)sometime later to effectively spill the beans about Ben Zygier, causing no end grief and embarrassment to the Israeli Mossad. That business always had a funny feel about it. Like someone holding Mossad’s feet to the fire. But of course, that’s just a possibility. No way to know.

    More tantalizingly, the way things are going with such obvious friction between the french and American sides, the Brits have given every indication they will not let it rest, Cameron’s nasty little political dance with israel be damned. So the saga will likely continue with tit-for-tats between the french and the brits. Gist for our mill, too.

    In the meantime, the french police are engaged in a desperate set of games to deflect attention from what really happened. A key part of this game is to deflect any and all suggestions that there was another car at the martinet and/or that a meeting has been arranged between certain parties.

    What says you peoples – Good story?

    PS Re the role of SM – it can be anything in this scenario – he could indeed be an innocent stumbling upon a place where he shouldn’t have been, or part of the whole transaction somehow. The only thing that one could count on is that if it was the Mossad, then they would most assuredly know that both SM and WBM were on their way. Something makes me doubt they would risk another collateral damage in someone like SM who they supposedly have no information about. way too risky – not like them to leave something to chance. What they WOULD do in such a scenario is they would find a way to stop or “deflect” a hapless bicyclist on his way, long before he gets to the martinet, rather than take a chance on gunning down someone who, for all they know, could be an important person. Also, SM as an innocent victim, never sat well with the silence of the French people of his village. Yes, they could all be told some lies and threatened to stay quiet, but it’s not possible to imagine that not a single person would have something to say about that.

  • Tim V

    Marlin it might be worth pointing this one out again (largely a repeat post of an earlier one of mine) The quote comes from The Telegraph (By Rory Mulholland, Paris10:13AM GMT 18 Feb 2014) His remark about the “camp site conversation” is rather curious. He indicates Le Parisien was the source for this story and adds they “gave no indication of the content of their talk.” To me this seems to indicate Parisien KNEW the content but chose not to reveal it. If correct this would mean the authorities were in no doubt what that meeting was about and whom. The fact that this has never been revealed suggests an intention to conceal and therefore a significant fact.

    “The Hillis arrived in the area on September 1 and initially stayed in another campsite. But they were unhappy with the spot they were allocated and moved to a campsite called Le Solitaire du Lac. It was there that Hilli reportedly received his visitor. Le Parisien gave no indication of the content of their talk.A BBC Panorama programme broadcast talked to two key witnesses who described seeing a motorbike and a BMW 4×4 close to the murder scene.It said the motorcyclist was the likely killer, and French authorities have since announced they will release a photofit image of the man.”

    NB “two key witnesses who described seeing a motorbike and a BMW 4×4 close to the murder scene.” So who were the two? Was it ONF1 and WBM or some other combination? NOTE “CLOSE TO THE MURDER SCENE” Somehow that doesn’t quite tally with passing two kilometres down the Combe. Did the ONF guys or someone else interviewed but not nec. revealed by Panorama see the BMW 4×4 close to the lay by? In any event you note it confirms a 4×4 which is definitely NOT al hillis car and also confirmed as a BMW as distinct from the ONF vehicles.

    I have suggested the possibility before that the role of the BMW was quite different to that suggested, namely back-up vehicle for the operation (there always is one) called in when the thing went pear shaped. Trouble is the timing is all wrong for that unless the back-up had got wind of a sting. We’d still have to work out what it did when it got there.

    If for example SM did the shooting of the Al Hillis, and he was then shot by you know who in an attempt to protect them, calling for back up, but by the time they arrive to late nothing to be done accept concoct cover story and leave them to it, X% getting the hell out of there taking incriminating stuff and anything useful??????????

    OK shoot me down in flames every one.

  • Marlin

    Tim V – so in this scenario you propose;

    1. SM doing the shooting of the family? first saad (in the back), then the two women plus Zainab?

    Note: that means he would have to be one heck of a gun proficient guy. any indication of that?

    2. WMB arriving in the nick of time just to see the carnage and off SM – possibly with his own weapon (the Luger)?

    What of the injured ribs etc? did the arriving WMB punch him around a bit to get the gun?

    3. WBM calling for back-up but it arrives too late – in the person of PD/PB + lady friends presumably?

    Can’t be excluded, I suppose, but there are some thorny questions….

    I think we’d need some confirmation that SM was “good with guns”. Plus in this scenario we’ll be left unable to believe anything WBM says, which leaves us with woefully little to go on.

  • Marlin

    Tim V – yes I also think the fact that the French chose to not reveal that conversation with the “suit” and/or ask for leads to find out who that was, would seem to bolster the case for a cover-up. ie, they (and therefore Le parisien) know very well who it was and what the discussion was about, but that can’t be disclosed to the public because they (the French side) are up to their nlittle necks in whatever has transpired.

  • Pink

    @Tim

    Tim said :”Even so if the time of the photo is 3.17 (how did they get it so precise ”

    (me)
    Max asked BMFTV If that really was the last photo taken and they said yes it was .
    The forum had already found the exact location the photo was taken .

    Shadswell used a solar calculator to caculate the shadows cast in the photo http://www.iesmith.net/tools/solarcalc.html
    using these settings

    Shadwell said:
    “I used settings as follows:
    Latitude: 45.76549865443469
    Longitude: 6.221912282595099
    Local Date & Time: 05-09-2012 15:15
    Timezone: Europe/Paris”

    Max then repeated the calculation and said there was an exact match for 3.17 give or take a few minutes .

    if you read deadzone they explain exactly what they did with the photo to show you .

  • bluebird

    Marlin
    26 Feb, 2014 – 12:36 am
    I like that. This is very good read and most reasonable. An illegal/secret deal that became interrupted by a third party who was able to obtain that information in advance. All parties are somehow involved and therefore the silence and the wrong setup evidence.

    Tim V
    25 Feb, 2014 – 11:10 pm
    Exactly so.

    I wonder about why no british journalist did ever ask Rime Allaf the simple question if Suhayla was her aunt?
    This should be easy to do because Rime Allaf is working for the Guardian and she lives in London. She could be a key witness regarding grandma.

  • NR

    “Did alleged Mossad agent Ben Zygier pass intel to Iranian businessman? New book by former youth counselor of Zygier claims “Prisoner X” told Iranian details on operations he was involved in.”

    ““Zygier did not play a senior role in the Mossad Iran-related operations, but he was a partner while he was employed by a Milanese communications equipment supplier that had dealings in Africa and the Far East. In the framework of his employment he also traveled to Tehran,” Epstein said.”

    http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Ben-Zygier-342207

  • Tim V

    Bleb
    25 Feb, 2014 – 11:12 pm We have covered this ground before but its perhaps worth repeating. I claim sponsor of the Munich 40th anniversary I think!!! lol The 40 refers to the years not the victims which may well exceed that figure! (87 are listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations) As to Operation Wrath of God see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God where the last documented revenge killing appears to be Atef Bseiso, was killed in Paris in 1992.

    “Critical in the planning was the idea of plausible deniability, that it should be impossible to prove a direct connection between the assassinations and Israel.[5] In addition, the operations were more generally intended to terrorize Palestinian militants. According to David Kimche, former deputy head of Mossad, “The aim was not so much revenge but mainly to make them [the Palestinian terrorists] frightened. We wanted to make them look over their shoulders and feel that we are upon them. And therefore we tried not to do things by just shooting a guy in the street – that’s easy … fairly.”

    “Mossad team – whose squad names are letters of the Hebrew alphabet – consisted of:
    …fifteen people divided into five squads: “Aleph”, two trained killers; “Bet”, two guards who would shadow the Alephs; “Het”, two agents who would establish cover for the rest of the team by renting hotel rooms, apartments, cars, and so on; “Ayin”, comprising between six and eight agents who formed the backbone of the operation, shadowing targets and establishing an escape route for the Aleph and Bet squads; and “Qoph”, two agents specializing in communications.[8]”

    A final little co-incidence “Black September” was the name of the Palestine organisation. I can’t find a ref to it now but I thought there was a “Black or coal Mountain” there abouts?

  • Tim V

    I don’t think this incident has ever been discussed though connections to N Africa have been.

    “The 2011 Marrakesh bombing killed 17 people in the city of Marrakesh, Morocco on 28 April 2011, just before noon.[1] The blast, from a bomb left in a bag,[2] destroyed the Argana cafe in Jemaa el-Fnaa square, a popular tourist spot. At least 20 people were injured.[3][4] Most of the dead were tourists, including one group of French students.”

    “Eight French nationals were killed, one of them a girl of 10 years, originally from northern France.[5] Also killed were an Israeli-Canadian,[6] a Briton (Peter Moss, 59, from London and a former writer for the newspaper The Jewish Chronicle),[7] a Dutchman, a Swiss, and a Portuguese living in Switzerland.[8] The Swiss and Portuguese were the companions of two Ticino natives injured in the same attack.
    In addition to these foreign nationals, two Moroccans were killed. One was the Jewish husband of the Israeli-Canadian killed.[9]”

    Morocco blamed Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb for the bombing.[11] The group has been fighting an insurgent campaign since 2002. However, Al Qaeda denied responsibility for the blast.[11] Rumors on internet blogs, that have been removed, argue that the attack was not carried out by Islamic terrorists. The modus operandi is incongruent with Al Qaeda’s or the branches of Al Qaeda methods. The bomb was detonated remotely, reminiscent of militant groups working for government or parastates. The rumors talk about a government plot to appease protesters during the Arab Spring.
    On 28 October 2011, in court in Rabat, Adel al-Othmani was sentenced to death for his role in the bombing. [12] Hakim Dah received a life sentence. Four others were given four years and three were given a two-year sentence for their roles. All defendants tried to plead not guilty and upon visit of a French Government authority (Mr. Gaumy) the sentences were increased from 4 to 10 years and from life in jail to death. The defendants complain that they were convicted only based on witnesses interrogated by police while none of the witnesses of the defense were allowed to testify.[13] [14]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Marrakech_bombing

  • Tim V

    Marlin
    26 Feb, 2014 – 1:37 am I think its fair to say I only have about 10% confidence in my own theory but I threw it into the pot as I haven’t seen it suggested anywhere else. The only thing in its favour is that WBM was arguably there when the shooting took place, did some very strange things like moving and checking SM’s body, and was said to have blood on his hands! If it was a French plot to kill the Al Hillis using Mollier and WBM detailed to protect and took the former out belatedly, it could explain why BOTH the British AND French have a vested interest in not revealing the truth and why the Brits might be pissed off with the French. If WBM was trailing as MI5 agent, there is no way he would have been left on his own. Perhaps he called in help using his phone (hence the arrival of the BMW X5 RHD support vehicle) and claiming he had no signal to head any suggestion he had. All supposition and full of holes I agree.

  • Q

    @Pink 7:06 a.m.: The problem is that this does not resolve the day when the photo was taken. Shadows would change depending on the time of day, but from one day to the next, the difference would be a matter of a few minutes. Can they prove which day this photo was taken?

    Another small technical point, when the faces in an image are blurred, we have no facial recognition. How do we even know that these are the al-Hilli girls, and not similar-looking children, like cousins, similar strangers, etc.? The blurry children appear to be familiar with the adults in the photo, but the photo as we see it is useless as “evidence”.

  • Tim V

    Wow! Marlin
    26 Feb, 2014 – 12:36 am you certainly went into overdrive there. Keep it up. Always enjoy bouncing (new) theories around my head. Suhaila is an odd ball enigma. I am sure BB has linked her in the past to Hezbollah on both hers and husbands sides as indeed there are links to diplomats etc on both sides of Saad’s family. I wish we had a nice clear family tree with connections on a downloadable document. The bit I have often pondered over was her “lone nut!” son Thaler. It isn’t only the Russians who use mental institutions to get ppl out of the way as a trip to inquiring minds will quickly prove. First he comes over too. Why? With the death of his father who it is claimed he hated and the trip by his mother who also felt threatened by him apparently, did he not take the opportunity to stay behind and be free of both of them. Instead of that he is “sectioned” and incarcerated almost immediately. This is normally not an easy or quick process unless there is high level involvement. Then he disappears out of view altogether despite loosing his mother and sister. Doesn’t this seem a bit strange though I can’t suggest a plausible explanation. Remember earlier on he was actually being touted as a major suspect. Was he sectioned for other’s protection or his own. Have we heard a word from or about him since. Was he thought to be a risk of spilling the beans – not Heinz of course? As has been pointed out despite Suhaila having been with them for at LEAST five days (it is claimed) the children gave the impression of not knowing her. Was the woman in the car shot dead actually a replacement/person unknown hence the reticence to publish a photo in case she is still alive and might be recognised somewhere?

  • Tim V

    Marlin
    26 Feb, 2014 – 1:37 am I think we can be fairly confident that SM was not unfamiliar with rifles and shooting, given the area, popularity of the sport, his father’s war time background, and his metal related occupation. Sort of the macho profile I would guess. Early on the hunting side was much discussed though I can’t remember if it was finally “nailed”. If WBM was blood stained and both to see SAH alive (if they did indeed pass him on the way up) and the first to discover them dead, he would normally be TOP suspect and treated accordingly. As i have pointed out on numerous occasions not only was he treated in a most relaxed manner but quite the opposite and suspiciously he was immediately publicised as “Hero”. Remember Rumsfeld carrying the stretcher outside the Pentagon? Instant HERO and STAGED FOR EFFECT written all over it. How come by any standards the chief suspect was announced as hero before they were in any position to rule him out? And at the very least a basic precaution would be check his person, his clothes, swabs and DNA etc. Nothing said indicates this was done.

    Now back to your observant comments on the Panorama programme, I too noticed those subtle changes particularly WBM’s comment that he supposed it must have been the Al Hillis that passed him. I believe that even less than other elements in his story. I never have bought his story that he didn’t really take notice, couldn’t remember etc. This is highly trained FIGHTER PILOT and trainer who we believe was on a mission. He would have “clocked” everything, every nuance, every detail. That a year later he could somehow re-figure the car and occupant when he was so clear about that aspect immediately after, is simply unbelievable. I think he was adjusting his story just enough to allow the French version to get through. The same with timings pushing back his arrival time to 3.45. Problem is his story then cant be made to fit the 3.48 call. He has to be just behind SM but if he’s too early it places him at the murder scene when the shooting happens, if too late there’s no time for his story before the 3.48 call by PD/B. They are literally between a rock and a hard place.

    If the killers are in the BMW x5 one kilometre up the combe at 3.20 as ONF1 and police claim his arrival time at martinet would be minutes or seconds before shoot time. There is simply not time for SAH to arrive in front but still before 3.30 or after the killers and still arrive before 3.30. In addition WBM would have had to incorporate TWO vehicles passing him in that case which clearly he didn’t. Even if he was stupid enough to confuse a BMW estate with a 4×4 (which I sure he isn’t) he certainly wouldn’t confuse one vehicle passing him with TWO. From very angle I simply do not believe the French story that SAH arrived at or immediately before 3.30 and immediately shot.

  • Tim V

    Q
    26 Feb, 2014 – 3:35 pm thanks for posting that Peter Allen story written less than a week after the event. “PETER ALLEN
    Published: 11 September 2012 Evening Standard. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/an-alpine-murder-mystery–why-were-the-alhillis-shot-dead-8125292.html

    It’s good to be reminded of the original before it has been “tweeked” here and there. Particularly how definite “Philippe D” is about the time he met WBM (4.10), confirms WBM hadn’t phoned at this stage, and then doesn’t ring himself until he has visited the scene and returned which quite obviously rules them both out for the 3.48 call. Note also no mention of seeing the ONF vehicles or indeed any so we must suppose they had all gone by that time. Strangely he also says the meeting with WBM was as he “approached Chevaline” which is very different to somewhere up the Combe unless by “Cheveline” he was referring to the layby – unlikely I should have thought.

    “The French hiker, a 41-year-old who asked to be identified as Philippe D, is the first witness to have spoken publicly about the attack. Philippe and two women friends were driving towards the scene on their way to start an overnight trek into the mountains. As they approached Chevaline at around 4.10pm, a “terrified cyclist” came hurtling towards them.

    “He was the British RAF veteran who had already reached the scene but been unable to call for help. “This man was in a panic and coming down the road,” said Philippe. “He explained to me in bad French that there was a drama a little higher up. He was trying to call an ambulance. I did not know if he didn’t have a mobile phone or if his phone network was not connecting at this point.”

    Philippe, an experienced walker who lives locally, then ran up to the car park, where the bodies of the Al-Hilli family were all lying dead inside their BMW car. “I understood what was happening straight away, I approached the car. I did not touch anything, but I could see there was nothing more to be done. There was no sign of life.”

    Zainab was motionless on the ground “I leaned over the little girl,” Philippe told Le Parisien newspaper. “She did not reply to our calls. I clapped my hands, but she was not reacting. I even said a few words in English, as I saw the car had British licence plates, but nothing happened. As far as I was concerned she was dead.” A few seconds later, Philippe went back downhill to call the emergency services. His was the first registered call to police.

    Then we have Fillion’s testimony not only putting SAH’s passing well before 3 pm but adding that he saw a 4×4 and motor bike go up before hand. Note not necessarily a BMW and obviously not the BMW x5 that went up at 3.20. I think WBM originally saying it was green but times are way out if it went up BEFORE SAH namely before 2.45 shall we say. Perhaps we had forgotten these little early gems had faded in our corporate memory so it is good to be reminded.

    “Laurent Fillion-Robin, a 38-year-old builder, also claimed there was no sign of any vehicle following the family. He was working on a house near Chevaline when he saw the maroon BMW drive past between 2.30pm and 3pm.

    He told police he had seen a green 4×4 and a motorbike heading in the direction of the crime scene BEFOREHAND (my capitals). Fillion-Robin’s testament points towards an agreed rendezvous between Al-Hilli and his eventual killers — a possibility which may be backed up by the records of two mobile phones found in the BMW.”

    Sorry to go over very old ground.

  • Tim V

    Q
    26 Feb, 2014 – 3:16 pm I was thinking the same but not as brave as you to say so. The way I would have approached it given the necessary tables would be to get an elevation of the sun from the shadow on the eaves of the building behind. As the sun takes an elliptical course across the sky, the angle of which depends on the time of year (lower in the winter; higher in the summer in the northern hemisphere) this would give potentially two times a day (am and pm) throughout the year. However if it were cross referenced with the direction of the shadow cast by the building over the river, an exact time and day should be possible. Of course this would still not give the year (we assume it was 2012 from the blurred daughters’ size) although even so it could still be spring or autumn.

    Working the other way by putting time, date and location and getting the right shadows is highly persuasive but not conclusive leaving aside the room for error interpreting the angle and direction of them. I had thought they 1. indicated a lower elevation of the sun than might be expected for 3.15 and further east for that time but i readily admit this is just inspired guesswork and not at all reliably scientific.

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