The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
What variety of roses are these?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/suspect-arrested-murder-british-family-french-alps-103110134.html#Pek95x4
Compass rose?
There is a curious line in this article:
http://www.constantinereport.com/natos-secret-armies-operation-gladio/
“…the state cannot convict itself or declare itself responsible for what happened.”
I don’t know the variety Q, other than they are old roses, [as opposed to modern] but they are almost certainly not from a florist,someone in the area is obviously a keen rose gardener & generous too.
When it comes to cutting flowers from my garden I would never cut that many.
@Q No it doesn’t resolve the day ,I would think it is unlikely that they are lying about the day and at least the timings match what we were told about the photo in the early days that’s a plus in this case 🙂
“7:06 a.m.: The problem is that this does not resolve the day when the photo was taken.
Unbelievable !
Look at this & note the difference between this & the Al Hilli case with a lack photos of some victims .
AFP/The Local | 26 Feb 2014, 11:59
“French cops tweet photo of murder victim’s corpse
French cops made a Twitter blunder this week when, in launching an appeal to identify a murder victim, they tweeted out a disturbing photo of the face of a dead man in the hope someone might recognize him. It’s not the only recent social media gaffe police have made.
(WARNING for sensitive readers: The picture is embedded below)
French police looking for help in solving a murder in the eastern French city of Strasbourg took the somewhat unusual step of tweeting out a photo of the victim’s face after he had died.
“The police, as part of a homicide investigation, are trying to identify the person in this photo (with permission from prosecutors),” police from Bas-Rhin department tweeted from their official account at 5:10 pm on Friday, French daily Le Parisien reported.French cops made a Twitter blunder this week when, in launching an appeal to identify a murder victim, they tweeted out a disturbing photo of the face of a dead man in the hope someone might recognize him. It’s not the only recent social media gaffe police have made.”
(WARNING for sensitive readers: The picture is embedded below)
French police looking for help in solving a murder in the eastern French city of Strasbourg took the somewhat unusual step of tweeting out a photo of the victim’s face after he had died.
“The police, as part of a homicide investigation, are trying to identify the person in this photo (with permission from prosecutors),” police from Bas-Rhin department tweeted from their official account at 5:10 pm on Friday, French daily Le Parisien reported.’
http://m.thelocal.fr//20140226/french-cops-tweet-out-cadaver-photo#.Uw74G0slWMs.twitter
Sorry about the repeat of last para.
NR, 10:13AM – good to see you back here, even if intermittently (as many of us are these days).
Regarding Ben Zygier, our “Prisoner x” – yes, I also saw reference to this book written by a German journalist I believe that recently came out. I don’t know all it says but have my doubts about whatever is claimed by Epstein (based on conversations with “Collleagues” and family) as the violation for which Zygier was treated so shabbily.
I have BTW seen those claims about the inadvertent passing of secrets to Iranian agents before – back in 2012 I was following a couple of bloggers in Israel who seemed to be in the know, and that was the theory of one of them I hope Epstein credited him, if not he should sue (his name was, I believe, Yehuda bello but you need to use google translate as he writes in Hebrew for some strange reason).
My own theory always was that Ben Zygier must have disclosed something far more damaging than a couple of israeli agents in Lebanon, as some news accounts suggested. they would not have thrown the book at him were it just a case of an over-eager agent that let some minor cats out of the bag. My personal belief is that (1) his disclosure led to iranians discovering that their spare parts/computer equipment they bought were tampered with and/or (2) damaging information was provided by Zygier (perhaps in an effort to burnish his credentials) about israeli involvement in the hariri murder. That WOULD have been a huge deal. Enough to probably “suicide” him. But that’s just my own conjecture.
As for would-be authors and journalists getting “reliable’ information from Mossad-knowledgeable sources – alas, best is to believe nothing and no one in israel that claims to “know” something. For one, they are all “in the know” and “have friends in the Mossad” (a common form of bragging in the holy land). For another, they have no trouble making up some details to “help things along”. Truth is, the real Mossad guys don’t talk much at all, least of all to friends and family. If they talk, they can end up as prisoner X, Y or Z, or whatever. That blogger Bello claimed to know people who knew people who served in the army supposedly with Zygier. He talked to Zygier’s wife and a couple more friends who knew him more recently. Problem is, Bello had an agenda which was to kind of “clear” Zygier of the worst kinds of suspicions, while keeping him on the hook for “naivite” (nice but hapless Australian Jewish boy guilty of too much eagerness and given to a bit of bragadocio). I know he speculated a lot, and with the poor translation it was tricky to know which one is speculation and which is fact.
For me the interesting part of the whole Prisoner X saga was the timing, sequence and source of the revelations in the newspapers. I concluded the Australian intelligence was extremely miffed about something and cleared the information to the journalist at The Age. The Australian PM had to get involved at some point i recall to straighten things out with the shocked israelis. My speculation was that in the end Australian politics (heavily jewish/zionist influenced) prevailed, and the hoopla kind of died down. I also believe that intelligence services tend to have these really long memory, so all has not been told yet that could be. But it was the obvious involvement of ISIS that got me thinking about possible connection to british intelligence and them being pretty furious about what went down in Chevaline.
Pink
27 Feb, 2014 – 7:43 am
Agreed. We dont know the day.
Didnt we have an hour to hour local weather report of sept 5th?
If we had this we should know about when it did rain, shouldnt we?
The streets are totally dry on that picture.
@Tim V
26 Feb, 2014 – 4:18 pm
I agree both Suhaila and Haydar Thaler are extreme oddities in this story. Yet another of the dramatis personae ‘disappeared’ at about the same time, sectioned in a mental health institution, or just ‘whereabouts unknown’?
By the way, you said sectioning is normally not an easy or quick process unless there is high level involvement.. That’s incorrect. Sectioning under the MHA can be done in an instant.
http://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/mental-health-laws/mental-health-act-1983
However, it seems Haydar Thaler was actually detained in Sweden in 2007 following assaults on his parents, but it wasn’t followed up.
http://www.metronews.fr/info/tuerie-de-chevaline-la-piste-du-beau-frere-schizophrene/mlim!RA3apBscTuUY2/
Katie
27 Feb, 2014 – 7:04 am too late for garden roses of that quality i would have thought katie?
@Pink 7:43 am: The track record of blatant lies by the investigative team in this case is astounding. Nothing can be taken at face value. Add the “last photo” to the pile, IMO.
Mochyn69
27 Feb, 2014 – 11:16 am I think you may have missed my qualification of the point. My experience in normal cases is that Doctors, usually with a specialism in psychiatry, are most reluctant to use the Section powers, however if there is danger to self or others the powers contained in the 1983 Act are truly chilling. Normally two doctors are required but in latter case only one. Additional separate powers are available where crime is involved. These include incarceration and treatment against the will of the person involved. In theory there are checks and balances but in practice, particularly where there is no close concerned relative prepared to take an interest, these may be illusionary. Secrecy surrounds the system. So has anyone enquired why and how Thaler was sectioned and on whose application? He doesn’t appear to have come before a criminal court, so is he still in there and subject to any treatment against his will? It should be noted that medication and ECT can create the very mental problems for which a case of mental disorder can be made out. All you need is one approved compliant doctor. Are we confident the State has not used (or misused) these powers in the case of Thaler (or others)?
In this regard I thought just this contribution on your recommended site was illuminating Mochyn. (Incidentally do I guess correctly you are French or live there?)
“Kevin • 5 months ago
I’ve been in a psychiatric unit a few times and I’ve also used community mental health services. I think the services they provided to me were a disgrace and a cruelty sometimes. But I’m not stupid, I’m not daft… The system can be corrupt. A lot of people who work in this criminally incompetent public service HAVE NO DEDICATION TOWARDS HELPING PEOPLE. Instead they’re just in their jobs for their own MEAN AND SELFISH REASONS. Their powers of the Mental Health Act only make this matter worse. Just look at the Stafford Hospital scandal this year (2013) and the Winterbourne View scandal for example. I don’t want to have to tar them all with the same brush, but these problems need to be exposed. Good luck, Kevin”
Some discussion on the shortcomings of issues relating to mental capacity generally can be found here. http://inquiringminds.cc/fw-mental-capacity-act-evidence-norman-scarth Incredibly at a house of commons select committee discussing disability police were present with SEMI AUTOMATIC weapons very visibly on display. These disturbing indicators about where we are at do not inspire confidence.
From your http://www.metronews.fr/info/tuerie-de-chevaline-la-piste-du-beau-frere-schizophrene/mlim!RA3apBscTuUY2/ ref Mochyn69
“And if it was the grandmother who was targeted in the killing of Chevaline? Suhaila Al-Allaf, 74, the oldest of the victims of the quadruple murder of 5 September , was “offended and threatened repeatedly beaten” by his son of 46 years, according to the Swedish justice.
Grandmother, a Swedish national, lived in the suburbs of Stockholm with his son, Haydar Thaler, who suffered from psychological problems. Between 2001 and 2008, the police intervened eight times at home, for acts of violence. According to his parents, he suffered from schizophrenia. In 2007, Haydar Thaler was remanded in custody for beating his parents, but no charges had been brought because they have not complained.”
Thaler may indeed be schizo and sectioned as a result of danger to himself or others. However we have to be aware that in high profile cases or involving state security these things can be manipulated either at the news level or to the individual concerned. An example of this re. USA, granted biased, can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjTYmDKPaI re Susan Lindauer and elsewhere.
The photo of the roses on the ground in front of the blue gendarmerie car seems staged to me. As much as the kind of roses, I wonder who put them there. There were later reports of flowers at the scene, but this appears to be the first bouquet.
By compass roses, I was referring to windroses, or “la rose des vents”. If they were grown locally and/or placed by a local person, that might be significant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass_rose
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_des_vents&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522la%2Brose%2Bdes%2Bvents%2522%26biw%3D1536%26bih%3D685
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#France
It is interesting that the French article here is quite different from the English version. The symbolism is intriguing.
I should add that the number of roses might also be significant. I am not Dan Brown, however.
If I were Dan Brown, I probably would have added this:
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_des_vents&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522la%2Brose%2Bdes%2Bvents%2522%26biw%3D1536%26bih%3D685
“Originally stood in the Middle Ages at the gate of the bishops and archbishops a post called “Scale of Justice” at the foot of which the condemned knelt to amends . Head and bare feet, holding in hands a big candle of yellow wax, they focused on the chest and back double sign indicating the nature of their crime or a rope around his neck if they were sentenced to death.” Etc.
And: http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_des_vents&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522la%2Brose%2Bdes%2Bvents%2522%26biw%3D1536%26bih%3D685
Now I’d better get on it and write a novel before someone uses my idea.
This indicates that the 16 quarter-wind dots are colored red on the compass rose:
http://www.gisnet.com/notebook/comprose.php
Also of interest in these links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_de_Grossouvre
“He was found dead with gunshot wounds at the Élysée Palace, the French President’s official residence. The official verdict was suicide.”
Names you may recognize from the previous link:
http://www.gign.org/groupe-intervention/?page_id=249
Two (badly translated) points of view:
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2010/06/18/01016-20100618ARTFIG00575-grossouvre-sa-famille-conteste-la-these-du-suicide.php&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFrancois_de_Grossouvre%26biw%3D1536%26bih%3D658
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/Societe/Mitterrand-La-vengeance-de-Francois-de-Grossouvre-151160&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFrancois_de_Grossouvre%26biw%3D1536%26bih%3D658
The double tap and the question of time, gunshots heard or not heard: it’s a strange story. How did he shoot himself more than once, if the story is to be believed. Allegations of improper or lacking forensic examination also surface.
Political angles to this story may be obfuscation. I’m thinking of the Corsican mob, who sometimes use politics as a disguise for mob feuds, and certain agencies that are said to use politics to their own ends. What do they want us to believe? What should we believe?
Was Saad al-Hilli becoming a radical? There is no indication of this prior to certain key parties talking to the press. He seemed to be rather apolitical, considering where he came from and the situation that led to his father’s move to the U.K.
Was he involved in a field of scientific research that is highly sensitive? This is more likely than the above, given his past education and employment. Mechanical engineers work with electrical engineers and even taken on software engineering. What is the common connection between lasers, satellites, and aerial surveying: remote sensing/geomatics?
Food for thought.
To cover all the bases that a best-selling author might use in a novel, the four cardinal directions and color symbology are found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse
It’s always useful to know these things when creating a work of fiction.
Background information: http://www.rwanda2030.com/genocide-charges-filed-on-paul-barril-frances-arms-supplier-to-rwanda/
“…the men and wife of one of them, may have been eliminated to erase any evidence of French involvement in the events that led to the genocide of more than a million Tutsis in a matter of three months.”
Not at all Tim, I’ve had Roses right up to Christmas..
In that quantity they would have had to have many rose bushes….
The only other thing could be the florist her/himself had placed them there,because ‘buying’ roses here always has some wrapping.
The symbolism would be blood & bandages = red & white.
@Katie 5:48 pm: Also the colors of the Ligue Savoisienne flag.
An important hint dropped here?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/an-alpine-murder-mystery–why-were-the-alhillis-shot-dead-8125292.html
“…with Lt Col François saying the Chevaline massacre had all the hallmarks of a slaying carried out by the Italian or Russian mafia.”
http://www.france24.com/en/20130625-french-military-gendarme-officer-baril-rwanda-genocide/
http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20130527-gangsters-police-captain-high-profile-marseille-trial-over-gambling-ring
By some strange coincidence, there is talk of chevaliers and Knights of Malta here, on page 96:
http://www.ilab.org/catalog_view/1196/1196_FILA-12%20mail.pdf
There is also a modern patent for construction equipment held by someone with the de Pingon surname from Annecy-le-Vieux, and a Jean de Pingon who founded the Ligue savoisienne.
Left, right, and red and white:
http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/ncrmay890910.html
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/19/who_are_the_knights_of_malta_and_what_do_they_want
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/398970?uid=3739392&uid=2&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21103545754577
How about this Q
27 Feb, 2014 – 3:04 pm. Could it be the “obvious hint” I think Marlin perhaps we suggested? The roses left by someone -> rose -> points of the compass – cia symbol??? It’s always had a touch of cia/mossad script about it. Perhaps someone who could say but knew wanted to leave a subtle hint?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cia+symbol&tbm=isch&imgil=nARPx6pKWBMgmM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTR3rsI1JjXq4KEdHMkOGMZcmLKOe409Su_dPgpEe43aJlKgGvrzg%253B510%253B510%253B46GGenZq-WHr0M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fcommons.wikimedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FFile%25253ACIA.svg&source=iu&usg=__GB-udzqhoYYt9xpvo7fZV6-pQO8%3D&sa=X&ei=95EPU970A9CUhQe25oGwCg&sqi=2&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA&biw=1024&bih=713#facrc=_&imgrc=nARPx6pKWBMgmM%253A%3B46GGenZq-WHr0M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252F2%252F23%252FCIA.svg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcommons.wikimedia.org%252Fwiki%252FFile%253ACIA.svg%3B510%3B510
Note position and location of SM in this image still being published a few days ago with the recent DM photos of him lying on his back. Even if WBM had moved him, there’s no way he would have dragged him from one side to the other leaving aside any evidence of blood staining there. What I would like to know is why the police obviously put out this misinformation, and why even after this passage of time, it’s still being pushed?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/lightbox/french-alps-shooting-photo-135303888.html