The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
It’s surprising that we haven’t even established e-x-a-c-t-l-y what’s the weather was like on the 5th of September in the Afternoon. Perhaps because it was shifting? The nearest station I could find is Geneva, which had a thundertorm in the afternoon. Perhaps some of you can pinpoint it more precisely?
Tim V
2 Mar, 2014 – 12:28 am
I have neither the time or the interest to do a forensic reply to your lengthy comments.
One minute you believe Maillaud but when it suits your theories you don’t.
As you know no more than I about this affair I see your suppositions no more valid than mine.
My comment stands.
Kenneth Sorensen
2 Mar, 2014 – 5:07 am
The weather leading up to that date had been hot & dry, a storm occurred the day before,4th, here in Brittany,but trying to get inaccurate forecast up there in the mountains would be very difficult.
Clearly it had rained or there had been heavy mists as the puddles around the scene showed.
“The girl spent a night surrounded by dead bodies, including her mother’s, before IRCGN officers finally arrived the next morning to rescue the traumatised youngster.”
Here is the discrepancy,one report says next morning ,others say midnight.
Well, if the murders took place around 3-30pm, the were police notified & with all the activity that followed,the police would not have left until a few hours later surely ?
Even if they stayed only two hours until 6-30pm then where did the much touted 8 hours come from ?
They had also visited the campsite & been told two children not one, did they go there in the evening or the morning ?
I suggest nothing could or was done until daylight which has to be the next morning not midnight
” [she] had only been found at midnight when witnesses at Le Solitaire du Lac campsite told detectives the family had two children, not one.
Only then did they “break with protocol” and open the doors to find the girl.
He said she was very small and young for her age, and had not appeared to have understood what had happened to her family.
Eric Maillaud, the Annecy prosecutor, said that when forensic officers began a detailed examination they found the girl who had remained hiding, silently, in terror, for up to eight hours.”
“When the investigators got into the car they discovered a little girl, who was frozen still and uninjured,” he said.
“She could not tell the difference between the good guys and bad guys. She spontaneously began to smile and speak in English when the policeman took her in his arms and pulled her out of the car.”
He added: “The little girl spoke English. She had heard the noises, the cries but she couldn’t say more, she is only four years old.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9524537/France-shooting-Father-named-as-Saad-Al-Hilli.html
Just noticed: “hole hours” aggggh whole of course. sorry for that slip of the finger. Katie I remember your posts of old – always controversial and tangential. It’s always good to have someone to challenge the observable but by the same token must be prepared to be subject to rational challenge. It’s not personal as you know. As to your comment “One minute you believe Maillaud but when it suits your theories you don’t. As you know no more than I about this affair I see your suppositions no more valid than mine.” I quite agree I know no more than you. I just try to subject what we have been told and seen to logic and reason. I’m not sure I have ever taken EM’s word at face value and think I can claim to be one of many who from the first challenged his interpretation of events, that all subsequent revelations, I am pleased to say, have supported my reservations.
Katie
2 Mar, 2014 – 9:06 am As for this post you have completely lost me now!
“Here is the discrepancy,one report says next morning ,others say midnight.
Well, if the murders took place around 3-30pm, the were police notified & with all the activity that followed,the police would not have left until a few hours later surely ? Even if they stayed only two hours until 6-30pm then where did the much touted 8 hours come from ? They had also visited the campsite & been told two children not one, did they go there in the evening or the morning ? I suggest nothing could or was done until daylight which has to be the next morning not midnight”
I just stumbled across that new message:
http://rt.com/news/iran-obama-assassination-scientists-443/
Good point
Kenneth Sorensen
2 Mar, 2014 – 5:07 am. What we do have is all the video of vehicles arriving and leaving. Based on memory only I would say these suggested dry and overcast with no obvious sign of rain. Bright sunshine next day as here-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROothlamQA
Here’s the AFP version with wrong on location of SM, his bike, the bullet shells, the size of Zeena, the space available. So not very reliable then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz7jNC0HXtg
Night-time and next day weather here with same mistakes(?) in the reconstruction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V59stG9uwoQ
Compare and contrast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wYhPUQlgM note again the false information on bullet cases a point I argued against months ago and now with latest photos, proved correct. But why did all the news agencies place them there or further back unless that is what they were told by police?
Ref. yours Bluebird
2 Mar, 2014 – 1:54 pm I thought this interesting, particularly in light of your previous on PPK/drugs/guns etc activity Haute Savoie.
“In 2012, however, an NBC News report concluded that “deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service.”
The report cited two senior Obama administration officials as confirming that Mojahedin-e-Khalq (MEK) is behind the killings, though the officials denied the US played any role in the program.
Mohammad Javad Larijani, a senior aide to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, told NBC that Mossad worked through the MEK because “Israel does not have direct access to our society. [The MEK], being Iranian and being part of Iranian society, they have … a good number of places… to get into touch with people.”
The MEK has denied colluding with Israel, though Israeli officials have confirmed links between MEK and Israeli intelligence.”
@Katie – I’d not realised you were a French resident – so presumably you have no trouble understanding the French news reports, TV & press conferences etc?
Something most(?) of us on here struggle with.
There’s an old saying for weather in the mountains: “Don’t like the weather? Wait five minutes.”
We know that a tourist had posted a video from the area showing wet, rainy weather on the day of September 5, 2012. It also appeared foggy. Weather in the mountains changes quickly. Weather in one valley can be different from the weather in another, just as weather higher up can be entirely different from weather at a lower altitude. You can get three or four seasons in one day in places.
On another matter, the four-year-old did not appear to be “very small” for her age in the “last photo”. The public has never been shown a photo of either girl before the “last photo”. All we have to work with is a blurred image, so we cannot compare the “last photo” to anything. Zeena appears to be within the average range of height for a four-year-old, so if “the child” was “very small” for her age, how can she be “Zeena” in the “last photo”?
@Marlin
28 Feb, 2014 – 10:54 pm
I’ve watched the BFMTV clip on http://bcove.me/3x2dc8qs a couple of times, haven’t time to do a full transcript at the moment but Domininque Rizet, BFMTV’s police justice specialist makes the following main points:
1. The arrest of Eric D. switches the enquiry from the ‘piste anglaise’ to the ‘piste locale’.
2. The crash helmet in the e-fit picture was used by the gendarmerie and the army 15-20 years ago.
3. the man had been under surveillance for some time before his arrest.
4. The photos are from the judicial dossier.
5. The photos were taken from a helicopter,the gendarmes used a drone, then a helicopter.
6. the photo shows the movement of the car from the tyre tracks left by the vehicle on the surface of the car park, something the investigators couldn’t have seen on the ground.
7. There were 21 shots fired.
8. The photos were taken just after the incident on 5th September.
9. The photo of the car and the body of SM was taken from ground level, in the car were the bodies of the family, in the front right SAH, in the front was his elder daughter who had been injured and had been taken to hospital, in the rear his wife and mother in law and, incredibly, the 4 year old daughter still alive in the back. she had been travelling on the rear central armrest, which served as a seat for her and had slipped under her mother’s skirt ..
If there’s more I’ll try to go back to it later.
There’s a bit more about the photos here:
http://m.lalibre.be/actu/international/tuerie-de-chevaline-les-photos-du-carnage-5304714735704ec4c3a73f69
“Le tueur devait se trouver au milieu, et il a arrosé la voiture pendant qu’elle faisait demi-tour”, précise Dominique Rizet, spécialiste police-justice sur BFMTV.
“The killer must have been in the middle, and he sprayed the car as it was doing a half turn”, said Dominique Rizet, BFMTV’s police-justice specialist.
Meanwhile it seems le procureur de la République was very angry with BFMTV and launched a criminal investigation after they published the photos, Dominique Rizet’s response is here:
http://www.programme-tv.net/videos/zapping/26206-chevaline-bfm-tv-repond-au-procureur-d-annecy/
The journalists are working on the story, trying to understand the scene of the crime, they are doing their job.
Marc Dufour was also involved in this trial. One of the men was a former soldier:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3539311.stm
http://www.iqra-givors.org/spip.php?article350
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2006/12/04/le-proces-de-quatre-hommes-accuses-d-avoir-incendie-deux-mosquees-s-est-ouvert-en-haute-savoie_841922_3224.html
http://europaien.over-blog.com/40-index.html
Google translates as:
Four men judged sitting at Annecy fires mosques
By Charlotte PLANTIVE
SEVRIER (AFP) – The trial of four men accused of burning two Muslim places of worship in March 2004 in Annecy and its suburbs, opened Monday morning Sévrier before the foundation of Haute-Savoie.
This trial, which will be held until Friday, is a first: so far, no one had ever been referred to a criminal court for burning a place of worship.
Two of the accused appearing held: Nicolas Paz, 28, a former regular hooligan forums Paris-Saint-Germain and Michel Guegan, 25, a former soldier, his friends nicknamed SS. Anthony Savino, Military 27th Mountain Infantry Battalion (BCA) aged 24, and Damien Gallaud, a delivery driver for 26 years, for their part, are presented free court.
Arrested in February 2005 and placed under investigation for “serious damage of property of another due to the religion by a dangerous way for people”, they face up to 20 years’ imprisonment each. Three friends, two women, are on their side in the dock. They are charged with “failure to report” and is liable to three years in prison.
On the night of 4 to 5 March 2004, a Muslim prayer room located in Seynod, on the outskirts of Annecy, was completely destroyed by arson and Annecy mosque had been an attempt to fire, which had been partially damaged. These attacks had provoked strong convictions, including President Jacques Chirac and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who had visited the site.
Eight months later, a witness had put investigators on the trail of individuals who had distinguished themselves from their neighbors by Nazi songs and swastikas on the windows of their studio.
In February 2005, after crossing the telephone calls of suspects, the police proceeded to several arrests. Once in custody, admitted to having four friends formed two groups to fire simultaneously places of worship. During the investigation, it appeared that they were bathed in a violent and xenophobic environment. And Michel Guegan, 25, was nicknamed by his entourage and SS Nicolas Paz, 28, admitted being a hooligan in the stands of Paris Saint-Germain. Both appear prisoners.
However, Anthony Savino, Military 27th Mountain Infantry Battalion (BCA) aged 24, and Damien Gallaud, a delivery driver for 26 years, has been placed under judicial supervision in February 2006 after a year of detention.
“They are right-wing, but they have never participated in any network or racist attacks. These free electrons,” said Marc Dufour, lawyer Nicolas Paz, who hopes that “it does serve not of this trial to make an example. ” Instead, the six plaintiffs expect exemplary sanctions. “They are racist and remain,” assured Mr. David Metaxas, lawyer of the International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism (LICRA). “More importantly, they are passed to the act,” he said.
Annecy made it into this report:
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2007/90175.htm
Do these organizations still exist in the Annecy area, and where are the people who started the fires now?
This involved a member of France’s military:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-23661557
I know that we have spoken about this military mountain unit before, but this article provides more insight:
http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2006/12/07/l-armee-parmi-les-accuses-au-proces-des-mosquees-brulees_59537
Google Translate:
The army among the accused at trial mosques burned
Olivier BERTRAND December 7, 2006 at 00:24
Former Corporal Anthony Savino, one of four defendants before the court Annecy, said he was “addicted” to the regiment.
Annecy Special Envoy
Since Monday, the Assize Court judge Haute-Savoie four men to fire on two mosques March 5, 2004 in Annecy and around the city. Recognize three have played an important role. Michel Guegan, 26, an admirer of the Waffen SS. Nicolas Paz, 29, hooligan of Paris-Saint-Germain. And Anthony Savino, 23, a corporal at the time of the facts in the 27th Chasseurs Alpine Annecy. For two days, along with him, the army found the report.
The former corporal believes he was “addicted” to the regiment. He initially refused to say more, saying Tuesday “watched” in the room. A member of the 27th Battalion is behind him. The court reassured, but he begins to speak the next day, then take the military for their grade.
“Bunker”. As two of his fellow prisoners, Savino joined the 27th Chasseurs Alpine Annecy. There he shared the room with a corporal in charge at the time of the National Front of the local youth. In their room, there was a wall portrait of Jean-Marie Le Pen. The hierarchy was she aware of the political responsibilities of Master Corporal? “Yes,” Anthony Savino breath.
The young man takes care to repeat that he never had any political involvement. Investigators, however, found a photo showing him with Michel Guegan, arms outstretched in a Hitler salvation. Savino there wearing a t-shirt depicting a virgin with in the arms, a child with Hitler’s head. “Michel Guégan had lent me, clears former corporal. I’m Catholic.” He goes to the prove a wooden cross from his back pocket.
Savino broke his military contract before he was dismissed. He says it is “detoxified” by leaving the army, he has “learned to think alone,” and works as a mason. “On site, there are 90% of foreign-born people . I realized it was going well. “Paz and then throw him Guégan small contemptuous pout.
“When you’re in the military, says former Corporal, you speak of France every day. France, France, France. “He wears chest tattoo” France my homeland. “He says that their leaders were” learning to defend whites “and” fear of Islam “.
On several occasions, he participated in the force between rebels and supporters of President Laurent Gbagbo in Ivory Coast. He mentions the case of Mahe, the young Ivorian killed by French soldiers, and said: “Cases Mahe, involving senior officers, I saw several while I was in Ivory Coast . “He said that when catching a rebel, they” ligotaient and the sergeant put him a blow in the face, then it was every turn, and if we did we were treated fags. “David Metaxas, Lycra lawyer, asked him how many times it happened. He sighs, do not know, he suggests seen worse but can not say. Then relates this anecdote. For one of his birthdays, a lieutenant told him: “Happy Birthday corporal. As a gift, I offer thirty blacks to build a bunker. “The court does not understand, ask him to be more clear. He then explains that it was a common game. “Slaves” to whom they were building “positions advanced fighter” whose army did not need.
“Amalgam”. President Philippe Busché then asked Savino the relationship between these atrocities and burning of two mosques in Annecy. Savino then speaks of “double packaging”, media and military. “When we turned on the TV, we were told about immigration, arrested imams in mosques in Lyon or Paris. It was an amalgam, it was believed that mosques Annecy, it was like we were talking about mosques us on TV. “The magistrate pointed out to him that millions of people have seen the same information without becoming incendiary . Anthony Savino whisper: “There has stronger people, and others who are weaker.”
“The parasite”. The Savino fled Italian fascism, fled to Algeria, before fleeing to France, independence. He speaks of a “grudge” family vis-à-vis Algerians. Himself was born in Fresnes (Val-de-Marne), where his parents were prison guards. They divorced when he was one year old, he lived with his mother, who committed suicide when he was five, learning the guard Anthony was withdrawn. A chopped words, the boy told the court s seat: “I was napping. She went to the kitchen and tried to stab him, but failed. Surely it hurt. So she went to the bathroom and she hanged herself. The noise woke me up, I got up, I saw her. She was still alive, I cried. ”
The young woman died soon after and Savino was raised with his father, a stepmother who shut, do not feed, forbade him to keep a photo of his mother. An aunt has confirmed at the helm. Father closed his eyes, half-brothers Anthony called “the parasite.” Boy tells it all, clenching his fists and lips. Lowering his head, he said: “France has become my mother and my military family.”
Olivier BERTRAND
Anthony Savino’s roommate was a man named Bruno Abello. Ironically, these articles interview a military sniper with the same name:
http://www.footballamericain.com/fffa/bruno-abello-des-black-pan.html
http://www.lemessager.fr/Actualite/Chablais/2012/06/02/article_bruno_abello_tireur_d_elite_et_joueur_de.shtml
“Black Panthers”: ironic. Copains d’avant: ironic.
http://copainsdavant.linternaute.com/p/bruno-abello-5091247
He lists himself as 6’11”. I rather doubt that.
http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/281514/athletics
At least one unit was in the area in September 2012 on an exercise, rescuing sheep:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=436290806412210&set=a.128220037219290.9226.127131997328094&type=1&stream_ref=10
September 9, 2012 was a fine, sunny day:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.464817980217757.110132.180764681956423&type=1
The September 4, 2012 entry on the Facebook site shows a photo of a bicyclist titled “Une Championne du Monde au Club Sportif du 27ème Bataillon de Chasseurs Alpins: LOU DENAIX”.
We have covered some of this ground before (Nov. 6, 2012), but it’s a matter of perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27e_bataillon_de_chasseurs_alpins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alasay (not posted here before, I believe)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquis_des_Gli%C3%A8res
Weapons caches were discussed at that time.
There is a list of 2535 names of 27 BCA members here on the Copains d’avant site:
http://copainsdavant.linternaute.com/e/27eme-bca-45039
I should mention that September 4, 2012 was the start of training classes for new recruits to the 27 BCA in Cran-Gevrier. Cran-Gevrier, Annecy and Seynod all appear to be part of one urban area. Chevaline is 43 minutes away by car, and much quicker by helicopter.
Q, 3:19PM : “the four-year-old did not appear to be “very small” for her age in the “last photo”. The public has never been shown a photo of either girl before the “last photo”. All we have to work with is a blurred image, so we cannot compare the “last photo” to anything. Zeena appears to be within the average range of height for a four-year-old, so if “the child” was “very small” for her age, how can she be “Zeena” in the “last photo”?”
Quite agree – this says it all, along with what Tim V pointed above. There seems to be no reason to believe that Zeena was “small for her age”, other than that one statement – by French police – as was given to reporters. In the photo just published in the DM, she does indeed look average in size, as does Zainab.
I have a photo of my own with a four year old girl – who was most definitely not too small – held in a position very similar to the way iqbal is holding her daughter. I compared with the published photo and it looks pretty similar, size-wise. Ergo Zeena NOT “small for her age”. So why add -almost gratuitously – that remark? may be to add credence to the story?
One problem to suggest as to why some of the people of MZT would so easily believe the official story – especially with little Zeena going all “quiet and near-comatose for 8 hours (!). Marilyn said somewhere she has no children, perhaps Lynda doesn’t either – i have not seen her anywhere refer to children at least. People who have been around children know that the scenario pushed forth with the girl motionless for 8 straight hours is as unlikely as keeping a puppy motionless. Of course, i don’t know about katie (and not for me to ask) but I’d suggest that those who have children of about that age (or grandchildren or nieces, etc) just try a little experiment to see how long those children – even the least energetic and timid among them, could be made to sit still.
An aside and to my comment above about “gifts”: that released photo – done no doubt without EM’s authorization – was another gift – perhaps for us (just like the bullet shell markers). Perhaps what we were meant to conclude from that is not so much the time of day (which is difficult, not knowing the day for sure, unless one believes what we are told) but Zeena’s size. May be also Iqbal’s skirt. Whether it’s floor length or not, we cannot tell, but it certainly is not “voluminous” enough to hide a little girl (though may be here mother’s was, we don’t know). In any case, it’s almost as if someone is giving us a little “hint’ again. What do you think, Tim V, my comrade-in-arms for all things “gifted”?
Does anyone know if Zainab and Zeena have seen any of their relatives, including their maternal aunt, since they were spirited away to wherever? Perhaps they have new identities now? If this were some sort of rendition or extraction, would children be reunited with their parents?
On another note, I’ve been examining photos of police tactical unit shootings through car windshields. It’s amazing how strong windshields are. In particular, I’ve looked at one where more than 20 rounds were fired. It probably has something to do with the speed of the bullets, and bullets being shot with great precision (so that many bullets use one entry point), but a windshield can remain intact through an astounding barrage. I needed to see it to believe it. The results are not the same as the mob hit photos that are shown on European news sites.
I suggest, Marlin, that a child of that age would only remain still that long if drugs were used.
Mochyn69 5:11 Pm
thanks so much for the summary translation. very helpful. reading through I’ll just pick this one point:
“6. the photo shows the movement of the car from the tyre tracks left by the vehicle on the surface of the car park, something the investigators couldn’t have seen on the ground.”
Stated as a matter of fact, something not to be challenged. Yet, looking at those very same tracks, not even resorting to Tim V’s prior careful calculations of track size etc, it is quite obvious the tracks DO NOT lead to the MMW’s final resting place. the offset in the track arc can be seen as somewhere between 0.5 and 1 m, just based on what we know the width of a BMW’s front end is. The only way to explain the offset is to posit that the car made “an adjustment’ as it was sliding into place. Not likely, given the pace of the events suggested.
The explanation given by Marilyn – and reiterated here by Katie – was that these must have been the rescue or police vehicles. Yet, if that was a possibility, it would have so been stated by the police in the first place. yet that ‘easy way out’ has not been put forward by the authorities ever. Why? because its tantamount to a major disruption of a crime scene, something they wouldn’t want to present, surely….
Drugs can erase memories:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/265957.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7892272.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug-induced_amnesia
Sometimes memory-erasing drugs are given to people with PTSD. Other drugs, like beta blockers, can be found behind the counter at any pharmacy, and are routinely prescribed as heart medication.
Again, some of this is old, some new. It’s a matter of perspective.
Q 7:34Pm – regarding the children’s aunt. I believe they are with her now – that’s who the British released them to. After a long and no doubt arduous fight. It was also quoted that the aunt, uncle and possibly other relatives (not Ziad, for sure) have had ‘supervised” visits with the children before they were allowed out of foster care.
We must assume therefore that the two girls, now raised by maternal aunt’s family are indeed Zeena and Zainab. Which of course doesn’t say they were the ones found at the car park. We always had that quick recovery by Zainab 9within less than a week!) from her very serious injuries as was originally stated. We have gone over this ground I recall last year, and many theories were suggested. Alas, that’s all we still got – theories.
Bleb
2 Mar, 2014 – 2:59 pm
That’s why it’s been rather surprising that a number of my comments received no reaction, especially when I said several times about some of the police wearing black & using white motorbikes.
As for French translation, I wouldn’t dare attempt bring my version of a translation here, in any case I think the French are just useful idiots in the grand scheme of things.
I know them to be generally slapdash & lazy, I wouldn’t believe a word from their side.
Marlin,
Zeena may have seemed small to the police, she is a slim child &.
could curl up easily on the floor of a car I have two children & they slept under an airline seat easily at that age, on long haul night flights…..as an example.
Whoever said Zeena was motionless for 8 hours is espousing nonsense because they were not there.
She may well have been screaming for hours before falling asleep, no one knows.
I feel if the police stayed it would have been at the bottom of the hill, I just cannot believe they stayed ‘by the car’ all night.
Also Q, one of the scenarios we had all along is that the girls were held in Foster care, under guard, as long as they were, mostly for their safety, but also to keep them away from EM and French investigators. As long as the british side was not sure that whoever the shooting party was would not find a way to get to Zainab (may be to ensure she does not “remember’ things) they could not afford to let them out of their sight. may be, even if they trusted the maternal aunt (forgot her name just now), they did not believe a regular family could provide the needed safety arrangement.
That’s actually one of my “backward” reconstruction puzzles: if the brits were apprehensive about the shooting party finding a way of getting to the girls (especially Zainab), what changed to aloow them to release her to family custody eventually? have they come up with some “gentlemanly guarantees” between agencies, or were the Brits able to use a threat of serious repercussions should anything at all happen to the any one of the girls? or may be it just took time to make proper security arrangements for their new residence?
One of my other backward reconstruction puzzles always concerned Zeena – if that story about her being too “traumatized” to move for 8 hours is just a story, why was it necessary to “invent’ it? and what was invented about it? that covers the possibility of drugging her, which you raised. Why do it, if it’s a normal murder case? why go to the length of inventing a story of how they found out from the camp manager that there was another child and that’s how they knew to look for her?
Never had a good answer to that, other than the “extraction” scenario. Which, as I said before, I have not abandoned because I can’t. Not as long as there is a finite probability that one or more of the adult individuals were indeed “extracted” (for better or for worse). Tim V gives it a small probability because of the complexities, but in my book, finite is finite, whether it’s 2% or 10% probability. Given that, I’m always on the look-out for any additional corroborating disclosures/insights as well as inconsistencies and puzzles raised by the official story.
Q
2 Mar, 2014 – 3:19 pm we can be agreed if that is Zeena in her mother’s arms in the “last photo” – a reasonable assumption I would say – no way is she small for her age. Quite the reverse for her age. Now try fitting her in the foot-well of a five series and NOT BEING NOTICED FOR EIGHT HOURS by professionals all around. It just defies any form of logic or experience I would say. If she wasn’t there when they peered through the shattered side window the only explanation is either she wasn’t in the car in the first place (unlikely I should have thought) or she was abducted either by killers or rescuers, and then returned later under an incredible cover story so as not to give the game of collusion away?
That’s a very useful summary Mochyn69
2 Mar, 2014 – 5:11 pm – thanks for that. Us non- French speakers are at a severe disadvantage and must of necessity miss much that is being reported across the water. It which clears up (?) a number of issues, whilst not explaining others.
For example I can’t understand his point about not seeing tyre marks on the ground as even two days later when (incredibly) the press hoards were let in before the forensic examination had been completed (an error so basic it defies description)as the reporters all commented on them from ground level, including those left by a motor bike.
Then maybe for the first time we hear of a drone being used. If immediately after the event as is stated, this seems very advanced and prepared being cutting edge technology. One might almost have expected the helicopter to be used first, even more surprising in contrast to what appeared to French inability to identify vehicles or track information from mobiles and other electronic devices.
Then we have confirmation of 21 bullets. This would be OK but they still can’t seem to make up their minds whether its 21 or 25, the latter still being reported fairly recently. How can this divergence be explained when it must surely have been settled no more than days after the event?
Finally this seems a big departure from previous approaches. It appears far more forthcoming and informative that all EM’s heretofore. It’s almost tectonic! What could have given rise to the shift from opacity to transparency? Could it be those three photo’s that tend to drive a coach and horses(!) through the official explanation? Is this a belated attempt to recover credibility or a change in control/philosophy behind the scenes?