The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Why now, indeed?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25038754
http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2014/01/15/dekhar-l-enquete-face-a-l-amnesie-delirante_973180
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-shooting-suspect-abdelhakim-dekhar-lived-in-london-8952843.html
His age has changed multiple times, much like his clothing, during various reports. He was considered “in his 20s” at one point.
They found DNA on the bullet cases and cartridges left at the scene.
Did the killer(s) at Chevaline take the time to wear gloves, so as not to leave DNA at the scene? How does this fit with the “lone madman” theory?
@Q
3 Mar, 2014 – 2:46 pm
Not necessarily at cross-purposes, but in different ways. I think, at least I hope they are both working to bring the perps to justice.
Q
3 Mar, 2014 – 2:29 pm
When you think about the detail of that night watch , who would be on guard, 2 policemen in a car, in what is a forest, don’t you think they would have a nap during their night watch ?
I’m damned sure they would not be patrolling the site on foot in such a place, or alongside the BMW.
My point being, they would have no idea what Zeena was doing,whether she was motionless, crying or trying to open the door.
“(Still wondering how a supposedly mentally-incompetent man in another country could put a child back into a (locked?) guarded house while the entire local police force, additional officers from elsewhere and citizen volunteers were searching high and low for them. Chevaline doesn’t have all-night beignet shops, does it? I wonder in that case if they made a deal behind the scenes with the perp to have the child returned safely on the condition that he be allowed to go free.)”
PRECISELY Q
3 Mar, 2014 – 2:29 pm that’s one of the options I had in mind. It might explain why eight hours were needed mighten it? Another option we have to consider is the role of ONF2. If they came down past Martinet and discovered the mayhem, they could have perhaps intervened and rescued Zeena. Remember that WBM ‘s early report was of a 4×4 and motor bike going past him. Thing is if he can be believed it strongly suggests those two vehicles/people in/on them implicated in the murders. How could it be otherwise. They have just come past the murder scene. If they didn’t stop what other implication is there?
Now factor in the BMW x5 story, and the story about ONF 1 and 2. Notice BOTH these come from British sources. The first belatedly on Crime Watch and nothing else; the second on Panorama from a most dubious ONF1 guy. Dubious for the many reasons I have already given. So both stories could be fabrications invented by the British to put pressure on the French, but still leaving a plausible story line, when in fact they know that the bike and 4×4 were the killers.
Thing is that mysterious X5 never returns does it. It must pass WBM on the way up if the 3.20 time is correct and most certainly pass him on the way back but WBM does not refer to to either or does he? Nor does he refer to TWO ONF vehicles passing him, if the Panorama story is correct. So the British source of both the ONF1 and BMW x5 MAY be just a ruse to get the ONF2 and motorcyclist in the frame and linked to WBM’s initial story of them passing him.
Sorry if this is a bit rambly but I hope you get my drift?
Katie
3 Mar, 2014 – 6:12 pm – how many times do we have to say it? If Zeena was “found” before midnight, why are you going on about the night as a factor in her discovery? Up to midnight there was constant activity up and down the Combe by a whole range of people and vehicles including a platoon of what we may assume were British SAS. The bodies don’t appear to come down until the next day, The Paris experts didn’t arrive until twelvish or there abouts. They opened the car we are told and found Zeena at that point whether we believe it or not. The site would have been artificially lighted. Mollier would have still been on the ground in the open presumably (ref. the wolves – not all were inside the car) One minute you say she might have been screaming and not heard. The next there was too much noise to hear her. One minute hidden the next sitting up. I can’t follow your logic at all on this one so I shall just have to pass.
Tim V 12:37 AM – you may have noted that in my attempt at a backward recreation of March 2, 8:48AM, I kind of alluded to some similar scenario to yours as a possibility re the ONF2. IF it passed WBM as he was going up, arriving supposedly at 3:45PM (per panorama – but 5 minutes or so later than we surmised previously), then it must have gone by the crime scene a short time later, and been a witness to the whole thing. And i went on to suggest it may have been there for a while, perhaps long enough to cover-up/tidy up, whatever. In all likelihood, be the one making that call.
But if so, there’s no way WBM is telling the whole truth, is there? he may tell some but not all of it. What did you think about my little suggestion that perhaps he was a hero after all, belatedly, the one negotiating the return of Zeena, and rescue of Zainab?
BTW, I am still very puzzled about the panorama timings provided. It occurred to me that if they were keen to give one hint or 2, they might give 3 or 4. Like you, once I saw the interview with the supposed ONF1, it became clear that something major is going on behind the scenes between the British and the French. And that something was not all bon hommie. Still, I think those timings need to be looked at in the context of what we knew from before. I noted the shooting time moved to 3;40PM and WBM arrival to 3:45PM. The five minute difference between the two is as it was always postulated here, but shifted by about 5-10 minutes forward. Again, I don’t think this was a coincidence or just a reporter’s feigned certainty, as they mentioned the times with quite a bit of confidence.
What I don’t get is this: if at 3:20 ONF 1 passes X5 that’s going up – and I believe they said 1 km or so into the climb (or did they? need to check again), then we have just a few possibilities: the X5 is the one passing WBM further down, with either ONF1 or ONF 2 encountered a bit later, followed by the MC. But if we believe both the 3:20PM and the 3:45 PM arrival of WBM, where does that put him when he starts the reputed 30 minute climb up the Combe d’Ire, and how would ONF 1 fail to encounter him, or if not him (may be he just turned into the road and ONF1 just missed him) then SM who was ahead of WBM by quite a bit by then? yet no mention by ONF1 in that interview of encountering either bicyclist on the road. Strange, no? looks like a deliberate omission. Of course, with regard to the car passing WMB going towards the martinet, WMB now surmises it must have been SAH’s BMW. Whatever.
yes, the ONF1 testimony is strange, and it must have been an actor since he spoke unaccented English. No way would the real ONF consent to speaking on TV, providing such damning information on TV. Damning to EM’s piste that is.
In fact, as you said a few times, Tim V, the testimony by ONF1 – WITH that pinpoint timing, coupled with BMW’s earlier testimony about the 4×4 dark green followed by MC, both going down, practically puts ONF2 at the scene as the crime was unfolding or even before it starts. Bingo – ONF2 is either in collusion with the perpetrators (in which case the French were directly involved), or someone was using the ONF2 vehicle (in which case the French are involved in the cover-up big time). I really don’t see a way out of this conclusion, no matter what was the X5 and whether it was a X5.
Still, I’d suggest we are missing something here. I think we need to look at this as the brits providing “hints” not just to us out there, but to EM that all is not well. I think should review the timings provided, and at the totality of ONF1’s testimony with that in mind. The brits don’t necessarily want to disclose the whole truth, but they could be hinting at some additional directions worth looking into. The most important being that there may have been not one, but two cars plus MC involved in the entire happenings, possibly with one of the cars involved directly in the shooting while the other may have been part of the “clean-up”. Further to that is the fact that, as you said, there’s no indication of the X5 coming down by anyone. It could have of course escaped going through the off-roads.
Whether, as max suggested, the car going up was SAH, and OMF1 was mistaken by both the type and color of the car is another thing. I doubt it likely, but I see why max would be willing to entertain such a possibility, based on his double-trip scenario.
You can ‘say it’ as many times as you like Tim…as will I.
There is no way I will believe that a French forensic team would set to work at midnight, I believe that to be the French covering their backs.
Setting up lighting equipment etc, would also contaminate the site…by their very nature forensics need light,preferably daylight.
There is no sign of any such thing the next day where we see the white suits doing their work.
I would also have thought …had they started at midnight the bodies would have been removed then,but they were not,we saw the hearse coming down in daylight.
Another point, Maillaud said they did not try to open the doors for fear the windows may shatter, odd that BM didn’t get his message across that the doors were in fact locked.
Which is the truth ?
‘”We had instructions not to enter the car and not to move the bodies,” Lieutenant-Colonel Benoit Vinnemann of the local gendarmerie told AFP.
The gendarmes were unable to open the doors of the family’s BMW for fear that bullet-pierced windows would shatter, potentially compromising the work of the IRCGN forensic team.
“Firemen, technicians and doctors all looked into the car through the holes in the windows but none of them saw the girl,” Vinnemann added.
A helicopter equipped with a thermal camera took images of the car to check if there were any other bodies inside, but also failed to identify the girl. ‘
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/sisters-survive-shooting-20120906-25h6p.html#ixzz2uyhPXLsk
Another version.
“Said Maillaud, according to France’s Liberation newspaper: “Initially, a doctor determined that the people in the car were dead.
He went to the bodies, determined they were deceased, and he removed himself.
There were clothes, bags, and this little girl who remained rigorously still.
Even with a thermal heat detector, this little girl was not detected.
The doctors who approached the car could not detect this girl because she was completely hidden.”
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/06/13703144-girl-4-hid-for-eight-hours-in-car-filled-with-corpses-after-mystery-shootings-in-france?lite
I dont know whether or not you had noticed that:
1. Mr. Communal-Tournier is the head of the Lathuile/Doussard/Chevaline forestry and therefore the head of the local ONFs.
2. Mr. Devousassoux is said to look like the efit and he is dealing with arms and he has got Lugers and Luger ammunition.
3. Mr. Falcy is said to be a partner in arms of Mr.Devosassoux and Mr.Falcy from Lathuile is a construction worker.
4. Mr Brun dies a fee days later in a green 4×4 in a mysterious car accident.
All of them could have been somehow involved either as key witnesses or as actual witnesses or else as setup witnesses (who received a more or less serious warning to keep quiet in return for no prosecution) and for survival?
Mr.Communal Tournier as one if the ONF workers.
Mr.Devousassoux as the Luger handler.
Mr.Falcy as a construction worker who helped blocking the street.
Mr.Brun (as discussed a year ago) as somebody in the green 4×4 who actually saw the killings as he was often meeting with ONFs in the forest, but he was managing to run away before being killed like SM.
I know that this is just a theory but a logic one. You must keep those locals being involved quiet.
I quite agree Bluebird
4 Mar, 2014 – 12:36 pm all these things are far from impossible. However the crucial point is that the French police/Prosecutor show no sign of explaining the role of the ONF or who was in those vehicles. If there was anything untoward or unacceptable about them they would surely have identified it by now? The insistence of EM to distance them, not even admitting that there were two vehicles directly involve, both of whom witnessed his stated chief suspect, the motor cyclist, must mean that whatever was going on, by who-ever, it had French Government support. By their misinformation and with-holding of information, the prosecutor and police are undeniably drawn into what happened.
Katie
4 Mar, 2014 – 8:02 am at least I can follow your arguments in this one. What we have to realise is the complicated nature of the investigation. Maillaud it was said was in charge and he certainly did most of the speaking. However later he denied this and said he was independent and not in charge of the police investigation. Vinnemann notionally was the local commander but right from the word off he wasn’t a free agent and must have been taking instructions from someone high up in Paris. Why do I infer this because IMMEDIATELY we are informed he was told he couldn’t even open the car doors! This of itself is incredible as the very first step is to check for life. Either the doctor as part of first responders, did so just from observation from outside the car, or possibly did so by carotid pulse through the shattered window, possible in the case of driver and near side rear passenger but not off side rear as window glass there was still intact. So now again we have the puzzle of a doctor making close examination but unable to detect a large four year old a matter of inches away in a very confined space. Simply unbelievable!
Back to the levels of investigation: Vinnemann operationally in charge but not able to make important decisions, for example calling in Lyons forensic team. But the first responders collected a lot of crucial evidence none of which have we seen until these photos emerged. Both photos and video was taken within an hour of the murders from all locations and no doubt close-ups into the car itself.
From the next day DM aerial photos at least three types of personnel can be identified, the white suited forensics, the gendarme allowed close, the police kept back. But this is next day after a whole phalanx of specialists and para-militaries (seen on other vid) had come and gone not to mention the British “military types”! They were all doing something at different times. You no doubt saw the refreshment van on site and all the vehicles parked in the lower car park in next day coverage.
Yet despite all this the press must have been fed the following lies:
1. SAH s car reversed causing the tyre treads
2. The location of the bullet casings
3. The location of Mollier’s body and bike
which compounded those of the 3.48 call and interpretations known to be false to which was added early in the morning of the 6th the frankly unbelievable story that Zeena was not located until midnight, having been undiscovered for eight hours.
The fact that forensics are still at work the next day does not exclude the collection of evidence in the light hours or darkness preceding, indeed the new photos prove it because they show all the bullet casing marked on the afternoon of the fifth.
3.
Another aside on the strange case of the Paris shooter:
http://linkis.com/www.wikistrike.com/mEvd
Fascinating, with mention of Gérard Manzanal. Well worth a read, but too long to post here. Here is the final paragraph, courtesy of Google Translate:
“Nothing excludes the hypothesis of a solitary action in the assassination attempts (unassimilated , curiously, a ” terrorist organization “) perpetrated BFM, Liberation and outside the headquarters of the General Society. But nothing, either, no reason to sweep a backhand, under its previous connection with Manzanal the possibility of a police and political barbouzarde referred manipulation. Continue exploring the shady past Dekhar and its potential networks will be necessary for obvious reasons, the State Terrorism(s) is an absolute taboo for the media corporation currently in power.”
Thanks for this one Marlin
4 Mar, 2014 – 5:15 am. Those are all the points I have made previously but not as elegantly no doubt. Our difficulty as outsiders in such a hall of mirrors not knowing what is substance, what is image, or indeed the reflection bears the hall marks of the true but subtly altered here and there, at on time becoming long and thin, at the next short and fat, close or distant! What I think both you and I agree on is under the guise of agreement for appearances sake, the French and British are on separate tracks, although neither is virgin white.
Then we have a layer cake of function and object vying for supremacy. Does justice top national security? Does truth top the greater good? Does bi-lateral and multi lateral relations top betrayal? Does honest science and policing top the need for subterfuge? To what extent does demanding justice in the particular case, render it likely injustice in a wider one?
Immediately after the Panorama programme was put out I flagged up the subtle (?) changes to the story line in addition to the dramatic ones introduced by that silhouetted ONF1. It’s curious how the French took it on the chin. No condemnation of their “snitch”. No attempt to dispute his evidence despite the inevitable problems it caused? Instead the basically agree and announce they have had a photo-fit of the biker from the beginning! This is all very peculiar and I have no simple explanation for it. Are the French really that stupid not to see the IMPLICATIONS of tying two ONF vehicles and at least three ONF personnel to their chief suspect on the bike, and either side of the murder scene both physically and time wise? None of this can be explained rationally and EM is unlikely to help given previous performance.
As I previously pointed out, pushing the killing 10 minutes later to 3.40 and WBM’s arrival to 3.45 pm only helps “the last photo @ 3.15” scenario whilst causing greater problems else where in the time line. (We will leave aside the three witnesses who all put the shots at 3.30 for a moment)
First it would make his Chevaline/Martinet trip 3.15 to 3.45. This could put the X5 one K up the Combe ahead of him. If they had used different access routes (Moulin v. Chevaline) it could have been there without passing him. However within the time frame if it reached Martinet by say 3.25 (whether it was the killer or not) it could not have got back out of the Combe without passing him in the opposite direction at say 3.35 when WBM had to be well up the track.
Problem is this now clashes with the new shooting time of 3.40 which means that if the X5 is the killer he can’t start back until after that time. This has two implications: he would have had to waited at the layby for about ten minutes before shooting and he would have passed WBM virtually the same time as he was arriving.
In any event if shooting takes place at 3.40 and WBM arrives at 3.45, that’s virtually on top of the event. There’s the problem he said he didn’t hear the shots nor does he identify the X5, a very distinctive RHD X5 going past him.
Remember also that SM has to arrive before him before the shooting can start.
If WBM is 3.15 – 3.45 how does that effect SAH’s car. Is it possible SAH could have been just ahead of him? If they left Arnand and the TWO photos some time around 3.15 and used the Moulin route I suppose at a push its just possible. It would put them entering the combe at about the same time as WBM ie 3.30. It would also have to be after ONF1 has left because he doesn’t claim to pass him. Then the next problem is the WBM changes his story and says the vehicle that passed him was not the X5 but “probably” the Al Hillis. I don’t buy this at all.
In addition what vehicle (4×4) and bike passed him on the way down and precisely where? Does this pass him before the new killing time of 3.40 or after. If before neither ONF2 OR the MC are the killers. If after they MUST be implicated in some way. If the X5 arrived no later than 3.30 and left no earlier than 3.40 (killing time) and ONF2 and motorbike passed WBM before he arrived, both X5 and ONF2/MB must have been at the layby at the same time or passed one another en route.
These are all problems of course for the theory of the “lone MC killer”.
Now let’s look at WBM’s arrival time for other implications, If it was 3.45 it gives only THREE MINUTES to the initial 3.48 call doesn’t it? This is even not enough time to allow him his described actions before he ATTEMPTS a call let alone if he has to go through all that stuff and cycle down the hill to meet PD/B. So if WBM did arrive at 3.45 it blows apart the rest of the police and his story.
So where does that leave us? “You pays your money and takes your choice”. I still believe for the reasons listed, supported by the recent photo, that that Arnand photo is not immediately prior to the killings. The timings are just all too tight and unsupported by witness statements. (I don’t believe for one moment the car would not have been seared into WBM’s memory had it passed him up the Combe given what followed) I prefer to accept as reliable the builders evidence and the much more likely scenario that they continued to Martinet about 3 pm. And that the three witnesses to the gun shots put them at (within a couple of minutes either way) 3.30 pm.
Now we have a choice: either, or or not at all. The X5 going up at 3.20 would be able to get there to shoot at 3.30. If there was a X5, and it was the killer car, it puts the ONF2 in the clear (virtually) unless they were implicated or in supporting role. If the MC was the killer that EM has fastened his reputation to, how come ONF2 didn’t arrest him of provide sufficient information for him to be apprehended? How could ONF2 escort him off the mountain post killing without witnessing and getting involved in the massacre scene? Why after such an important role were they written out of the script?
However as I said, we cannot be sure of the existence of any of these vehicles or their occupants. They may all be lies and false trails. And do not forget builder man who’s credibility I rate quite highly, originally said a vehicle and MC went past BEFORE SAH. On this basis we might conclude the killers were parked up before SAH arrived and that they had to await SM’s arrival (yes at 3.30) before the killing could begin because he was part of the target, before they steamed off back down the Combe at about 3.35 – 3.40 just as WBM is arriving. PHEW! Sorry folks!
Canada has declared a Swiss arms amnesty today. Was it a problem?
Bluebird, 12:36PM
I think you make excellent points and I am glad you brought back our Frederic Brun, who died in a 4×4 green SUV. This should acquire special significance in light of the new revelations, on panorama in particular, that effectively puts ONF 2 either on top of the crime scene, or just after, as perhaps part of the clean-up crew. It is, of course possible, that FB provided the 4×4 green ONF-like vehicle meant to look like, and possibly impersonate, a forestry vehicle. If so, there’d be every reason in the world to shut him up.
Indeed, the coincidences with the individuals you mention in points 1-4 are really thought provoking. Is this part of attempt to silence the locals, who may have known things? I like the idea of ED supplying the Luger – that makes a lot of sense. Falcy as a construction worker who may know things is also plausinble, and Brun, as a possible supplier/passenger/driver of a green 4×4 that was part of perhaps the clean-up crew. r. Communal-Tourneir – well, i got to think this ver some more
Some level of involvement by ONF or ONF-impersonating individuals now appears likely. The ONF1 witness practically pointed us that way. One wonders, given the French silence about his testimony (thanks for mentioning this, Tim V), whether this particular ONF individual is under the protection of the british.
Might be interesting to combine these strange happenings with the still stranger Google view mentioned by Q that the mysterious Maire Chevaline building next to Sylvie, is now shown as Forestry HQ building. How convenient. Makes me wonder – given the ease with which intelligence agenciew can interfere and “write-over” Google maps, are we looking at another of those precious “gifts”? it’s as if someone(s) are practically directing us to “look over there”…..
Tim V 3:46PM – good of you to go over the timings and point out how tricky it is to try and shift them to match any one official scenario. Trying to fix one problem (the overly tight 3:15PM – to 3:30PM shooting) by adding 5-10 minutes, leads to a host of other problems, including putting WBM on the scene as late as 3:45PM, which then conflicts with the stated arrival/encounter with Philip Bossy which was previously moved earlier (I am still looking for PB’s specific words about the timings but seem to recall it was 5-10 minutes before 4PM, as we commented on how this conflicted with the originally stated PD’s arrival and second call around 4:10PM). I think this is just part of the problems the scene reconstructors have: previously they had to get PD – now PB – arrive early enough to perhaps make the call at 3:48PM, which practically mandated that WBM arrive on the scene not a minute after 3:40PM to allow for all that happened in-between – per WBM’s own words.
Yet here we have WBM showing up right at 3;45PM, which destroys the idea of either him or PB making that 3:48PM call.
Anyways you slice it we got a problem. may be the PTBs hope we’ll have forgotted that pesky little problem with PB’s arrival and/or stashed away the 3:48PM call in the basement, never to be retreaved. Alas, quite a few people here have good memories and are definitely not suffering from ADHD or the like.
In any case, even though you may repeat what you said before, TimV, it is a good idea to re-summarize things like the timings, both in light of new facts, and as reminders to those of us who have either been absent for a while, or forgot. The pages on this blog are rather long and it is often a laborious process to try and find comments on previous pages. So a refresh definitely helps.
News!!
Interview with eric devousassoux (google translation)
http://m.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/tuerie-de-chevaline-l-ex-suspect-parle-28-02-2014-3630941.php
His name is Eric, he is 48 years old and last week, the former municipal police officer was arrested by the police in charge of the investigation into the murder of four Chevaline. He was then presented as a possible killer of three members of the Al-Hilli family and French cyclist Sylvain Mollier. For Eric resembled sketch of biker seen by witnesses near the crime scene September 5, 2012. Eric spent ninety-six hours in custody. And it was finally cleared by the courts. But today is a man destroyed by the suspicion that weighed on him. He decided to talk to restore its honneur.Comment your arrest took place last week? ERIC. This is an earthquake, a nightmare. I was about to go to work, I opened my car, my wife was telling me goodbye and people I have not seen happen extracted me the car, lying me down , searched and then put in a van. At the time, I thought I was the victim of a robbery. It is then that I realized that they were policemen, members of the GIGN dressed in black. And a police officer has served me my custody for the crime of Chevaline.Vous then have been transferred to the police … Yes, we went to Chambery, in the premises of the research section. And I did ninety-six hours in custody. It was very hard. Morally, physically, psychologically. The police did their job. But four days like this, it’s huge. We can not dormir.Comment did you react to accusations that police suspect you of being involved in the killing of Chevaline? I told them that I was in the fourth dimension. That it was not possible, it was not me. I wondered what I was doing there. Why me? This could have happened to anyone, it happened to me. The day of slaughter, I worked. With my craft, I took gasoline Annecy. My phone has triggered relay Annecy. I could not be Chevaline. I’ve never set foot on that day là.Votre resemblance to the sketch of biker sought weighed heavily in your arrest, not Yes, I think it’s 80% of the reasons for my arrest. There are good souls who denounced me by saying that it looked like me. But I explained to the police that if you put a helmet on the former ski champion Luc Alphand, he was also the man of the portrait-robot.A outside for many, you were already a suspect Yes … after my arrest, I was the killer Chevaline. While I was simply in custody for checks against a motorcyclist who was presented only as a witness. Was brisé.Comment are you here today? My life is completely destroyed, like my family. My wife, my children, my parents, my in-laws have been affected. My 13 year old son does not dare to go to school. It is traumatized. I was dragged through the mud. People who had known me as a municipal police have struggled. I also lost my job. I was security officer in Switzerland. The day after my release from custody, I was fired, the Swiss cantonal police took my card professionnelle.Qu ‘are you going to do? I’m on the verge of the road. I have nothing. I’ll look for work, to repay the loan from my house. My life is in tatters. I will try to bounce back. Return to a normal life. I have nothing to do in this story. I hope people will have the intelligence to see that this is a big mistake. I will try to move forward. Otherwise, there are just to fuck up. Did you think to leave the area Yes, but I said I could not give satisfaction to those who have dragged me through the mud . I am innocent. I do not want to fuir.Vous by cops, justice, I do not blame the police, they did their job. The problem is that there were leaks and that the press was quickly aware of my custody. It’s the hype that broke my life that completely destroyed me. In terms of justice, perhaps the Minister of Justice should take steps to ensure that there is no fuites.Au term of your custody, you have been indicted for arms trafficking. Yes .. but I am just a collector of weapons, the First and Second World War. As there are thousands in France. I am not a dealer. I have no contemporary weapons. The most recent discovery gendarmes What weapon was seventy-five years. I’m just passionate. It was said that I liked the Luger, the weapon used in the killing of Chevaline. But I owned the Luger is German, not Swiss origin as P06 Chevaline.
Family of SM using the help of an expensive lawyer for keeping secrets secret. (Google translation). Who pays the lawyers’ bills? His sick mother? His ex wife? State departement?
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2014/02/28/chevaline-les-avocats-du-cycliste-tue-denoncent-l-immixtion-des-medias
The family lawyers Sylvain Mollier, cyclist 45 years considered a collateral victim of the massacre Chevaline, denounced Friday the “interference of the media” in the privacy of his family and called the press to respect their ” choice not to speak. ” “For 14 months, without fail, this family has chosen not to speak. Nevertheless, the members of this family had and still have to deal with the interference of media, especially French, British and Swiss in their lives, either directly or indirectly. This choice must be respected “, they lamented in a statement, pointing visits” on where they live or work, “or” with their neighborhood. ” “Recent events, as well as unacceptable disclosure of photographs of the crime scene […] once again led the media to invest their daily lives, thus seriously disrupting the reconstruction period after the mourning that has befallen “they added, citing” incompatible with the respect owed to everyone in a democratic society “behavior. “The family of Mr Mollier means grieve normally, and although it costs, it will not hesitate to stigmatize now to justice all those who, under the pretext of freedom of information, do not hesitate to s ‘overcome common decency, “they concluded. Lawyers close to Sylvain Mollier confirmed the intention of the family to complain after the publication (BFMTV, ed) photos showing the body of the cyclist killed during the massacre of Chevaline, Sept. 5, 2012. On 5 September 2012, Saad al-Hilli, 50, British engineer of Iraqi origin working in the aerospace industry in the UK, his wife of 47 years, and his stepmother of 74 years, had been executed several bullets into their car on a small forest road near Chevaline. A French cyclist was also killed. A couple of girls al-Hilli was seriously injured while the second, hidden under the skirt of her mother, was miraculously unscathed.
Apparently that is the lawyer of SM’s family
http://www.aguera-avocats.fr/legales.html?dpt=&lang=en
Seeing how much I missed when the conversation was raging here following the Panorama program and the murder of Nicle Tournier, I started to go back over some prior conversations. Obviously, I missed much, and I realize it must be annoying to some people that I keep going back over the panorama program months after it hit the air and was dissected. Still, may be with a complicated case like this where nothing happens for months and then – suddenly lots happens all at once, it is not necessarily a bad idea to periodically reopen old conversations and/or look at older links with new eyes. So much has been suggested and speculated over 16 months now and so many directions offered, it’s easy to lose count, so just as well that we have some Johnny-come-lately’s here and there. anyways, that’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it.
I did specifically try and find the time when Phillip Bossy was discussed but on the way there, I got waylaid and found this nugget on P. 93:
From Ricki Tarr 15 Nov 9:57AM
“So are we saying our current theory is – Sylvian Mollier was making some sort of deal for zirconium to be sent to Iran for their Nuclear arms program. The deal may have been made at the conference in Geneva and the Al-Hilli may have planned to elope to Iran or Iraq afterwards.
A Security Service like the Mossad have then got wind of this via a plant or asset in the area or industry and as usual have taken them out of the food chain! The other option is that it was a sting operation and the meeting was set up to get the right people in the room at the same time………………………?
The reports said that the Large amount of information stored on computers and memory sticks was not Military but mentioned nothing about industrial or Nuclear!
It is obvious from BB’s excellent family research that both the Al-Hilli’s and Al-Saffars had friends and family members in high places, powerful people and this is the key information that has been suppressed its important for them to be portrayed as a normal family!
Has everyone seen Munich? my mind is always drawn to the scene where they kill the Palestinian in Paris with an explosive phone, they have to abort the mission at first because the man’s daughter answers the phone! she then leaves for school and they make then blow the place up. It may just be in there to show humility but I think this may be a Mossad rule!”
Back to me; I liked this post and the possibility of SM, Zirconium deal and a plan to elope later cannot be dismissed, whether we have corroborating details or not. people also suggested that this could have been a sting, perhaps planned by the Brits/French but it was intercepted by Mossad who didn’t realize that it was a sting and decided to take matters into their own hands. I believe, such a possibility was long ago suggested (certainly by me and Tim V but others as well) as a way of bringing in the a play by a”third” agency, the one that did the killings.
I also appreciate the comment made by RT about Mossad wanting to minimize “collateral” damage to others. That much is true, I agree. In fact, collateral damage to by-standers is no doubt regarded by them as an operational failure. To me, this was always an issue, given the number of victims, assuming Mossad involvement. Unless a decision was made that neither iqbal not Suhaila were “innocents”. the alternative is that the execution was partially contracted out, and the contractor did not share the same hesitations about “collaterals”. A professional Mossad agent would have called off the entire operation, once they realized that Saad brought his entire family. No way would they take such a risk, and if they did, those agents would be severely reprimanded.
In any case, the elements that I am sure of is that (1) there was a planned operation, and (2) something went wrong.
Too bad I missed this and other related comments at the time.
Also on that same page (93) i found a fascinating exchange with james that concerned the sudden, inexplicable shut-down of the MZT forum. Apparently, one of those two relatively recent arrivals (Patrick was the name of one, forgot the other’s name just now) who conducted a detailed discussion with only Partlucid attending of the previous group, was allied to the French police. That’s actually what I thought as well, just going through those last conversations 9which were, in fact, quite civil). an allusion was further made by james to a “threat” that caused Marylin to close it down. It seemed that people were getting to some point that was too close for comfort (cf. “logical consequences”). These comments were made by james in response to suggestion by Good in parts.
Anyways, I didn’t finish reading through yet – did catch all the excellent research done by Bluebird about the Tourneir/Mollier/Communal families in Lathuile. very impressive. Also the suggestion that the Tournier killing, a mere week after the release of the eFit, itself precipitated by the panorama program revelations, could have been an act of local revenge. Or a scaring off of witnesses/participants. Which again goes to Bluebird’s comment at 12;36 PM. Interesting and quite plausible – either way.
So, to Good In parts Nov 20 11:11PM, who was kind enough to inquire after my whereabouts – the script is moving along thrillingly. Should I say “well done” to anybody?
Probably totally unrelated but for the files:
Another key witness, laurent fillion-robin, was bankrupt in june 2013.
That’s about the same time when Eric Devousassoux lost his job at police.
13-06-2013
481450724
Jugement prononçant la liquidation judiciaire, désignant liquidateur Selarl Gomis 15 avenue des Allobroges – le Médicis 74200 Thonon-les-Bains. Les déclarations de créances sont à déposer au liquidateur dans les deux mois de la présente publication.
Jugement d’ouverture
Bodacc A n°20130112 publié le 13/06/2013
Annonce n°2156
Date :29 mai 2013
Jugement d’ouverture de liquidation judiciaire
RM :481 450 724 RM 74RCS :non Inscrit
Nom :FILLION-ROBIN
Prénom :Laurent
Nom d’usage :FILLION-ROBIN
Activite :maçonnerie.Adresse :48 montée de la Treille 74210 Cons-Sainte-ColombeComplément Jugement :
The last pic of the al Hilli family is blurred differently (same overall blurring of the frame and different degrees of slight additional blurring on the girls) in various French newspaper sites, while the girls images are heavily pixellated in all the UK newspapers, and it’s exactly the same pixellation in all the papers. That means the image was supplied to the press from a central source. Each newspaper wasn’t allowed to take the French image and blur it themselves.
There’s no indication BM moved SM’s body. No blood trail and no drag marks. He couldn’t be dragged feet first — pointing wrong way — nor by the arms or they’d be above his head. Dragging under the arms would be possible, but why take the trouble to arrange the right arm or did it drop there randomly?
The bright red blood doesn’t help much. “Blood exits the body bright red but with time and oxidation becomes rusty brown and does so along a predictable timeline. Accurate determination of the bloodstain’s color with hyperspectral imaging reveals its approximate age.” and “Once blood leaves the body it begins to clot very quickly. This process is completed in 5 to 10 minutes. After that, the blood begins to separate as the clot retracts into a dark knot and squeezes out a halo of yellow serum. This process would take another hour or more. The blood will then dry to a rusty brown stain. This could take several hours or even days in a moist climate.” From The Writer’s Forensics Blog.
I like Marlin’s approach of peeling back layers of paint to determine what we’re not supposed to see. Agree with all, except the conjecture about Zeena being removed from car and returned later.
The detail about her being found in the car after 8 hours reflected poorly on the French. It created a sensation that really pushed the story worldwide and required endless explanation. If she was removed and returned, a simpler story would be that she had escaped and was found sleeping in the forest.
The helicopter with the heat-seeking camera was initially used because they thought the killer could be hiding in the forest. When they learned of a second child from the campsite they included her in the search. The explanation of the camera not detecting Zeena was that she was under still-cooling bodies (plus some bags) is not unreasonable.
One of the unusual aspects of this case is that in most murders relatives of the victims demand justice and that arrests be made. They’re assisted by the media, sometimes offering large rewards in conjunction with police and cities. Here we have both SM’s and SAH’s families largely silent and no rewards from anyone.
NR
5 Mar, 2014 – 9:53 am
I agree with all you say about the ‘eight hours’ now imagine the reaction if they had said they returned to the car after 13 hours. … daylight.
Some reports have said ‘next morning’ & one I read yesterday said ‘Thursday morning’…but most have exactly the same wording of ‘eight hours’, obviously quoting verbatim from a press release by the French.
Hello, everyone!
I wanted to direct your attention to a specific American journalist, certainly no ordinary journalist. I’ve only just came across him, thanks to a tip from David Irving, about this: Understanding the Crisis in Ukraine. I should think particularly Bluebird could find much usefull information here.
He is best known for his book about 9/11 (Where I’m currently reading Chapter VI), which is freely available on his website, and which has lots of interesting information about Israelis in the US posing as Arabs.
____________________________________________
Just look at this teaser to get a sense about what sort of information he is dealing with (Certainly no ordinary American that – and therefore very refreshing to encounter):
@ BB: I wonder which family of Sylvain Mollier has chosen the lawyer, whose is a specialist in labour law and corporate restructuring.
http://www.aguera-avocats.fr/legales.html?dpt=&lang=en
There is the link. And why a law firm from Lyon?
@Marlin 1:22 a.m.: Maybe I should have directed the question about the family of Sylvain Mollier choosing a corporate law firm specializing in labour law and restructuring to you, too.
Some clarity:
http://www.aguera-avocats.fr/presence-crise.html
http://www.aguera-avocats.fr/reseau.html
http://www.aguera-avocats.fr/jurisprudence.html
Is the “family” paying for this? Or is some other entity paying for this?
I wanted to mention re camping connections that our witness Sylvie Lecoeur also worked at a campground, non? And who was the witness to the argument between SAH and the mysterious “Balkan” stranger at the campground? And who witnessed SAH coming and going from the campground so many times? So many campground connections! How are those eight local police officers from the Annecy police station coping with the investigations of all the murders in the past couple of years, and the Mastro case? We assume other investigators from outside the area have been brought in, but who are they? Surely these would be specialist investigators, rather than local beat cops or school crossing guards.
To no one in particular, this is Nicolas Tournier:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Tournier
Isn’t Nicole the feminine version of Nicolas? Anyways, a “Chevalier” name is in the wiki. Probably useless, but I can’t help but thinking the authors of this story put a “Dan Brown” spin on it.
@NR: You point to another reason why it is important to know whether the weather was sunny and dry, or wet and humid. Different conditions would result in red blood or brown blood. Sunny and dry conditions, the kind where families might wear shorts and sleeveless shirts, would mean brown blood, unless roaming helicopters and drones were on the scene taking pictures within minutes.
I still haven’t gone through the thousands of names on the mountain unit’s alumni get-together page. A “Sylvain Mollier” might not be on there anyways, if he was in the unit at one time, but didn’t want to advertise that fact.