The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Purely an aside on another intrigue based only the commonality of a “Tournier” surname:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/8498981/Mayfair-art-dealer-Mark-Weiss-in-disgrace-after-admitting-poison-pen-campaign-against-rival-Philip-Mould.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Bader
Ironically, I had first come across the art collector’s name in connection with that castle when I was looking into the strange and mysterious death in Bristol of student Garrett Elsey on September 27, 2012. There was a tribute to Elsey on a webpage that mentioned his attendance at a summer course at the castle. Elsey was about to study international security in Bristol at the time of his death.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/garrett-elsey-inquest-bristol-student-2687219
http://www.smh.com.au/world/canadian-student-garrett-elsey-died-in-rubbish-truck-hours-after-arriving-in-uk-inquest-told-20131108-2x4s8.html
In some strange turn of events, I found a photo of a doppelganger of the e-fit image. Just a common look nowadays, I guess.
Anyways, onward.
I wanted to ask a couple of things. Did the al-Hilli family take a ferry from Bristol to France? Has EM ever said anything about them being followed as they boarded the ferry? Which passports (country)were they using when they boarded the ferry?
Remembering for a moment the British witness from the campground who worked for a removals company in the UK.
Why would it be so important for the E-fit man to hide his neck and ears? Wouldn’t this make the use of facial recognition more difficult? Why not wear sunglasses to hide his eyes, too?
http://www.technewsdaily.com/3684-beat-facial-recognition-software.html
Q
@ BB: I wonder which family of Sylvain Mollier has chosen the lawyer, whose is a specialist in labour law and corporate restructuring.
—-
I wonder, too.
It rather looks like a step to prevent media from finding out more about SM. Probably government sponsored. It’s all happening coincidentally at the same time with the devousassoux and falcy arrests.
SM’s family seems to be one of the few families in the whole world who arent interested at all about knowing who the killer really was.
But wait! Perhaps they knew from the very first day about what has happened and who the killer was? Sounds more plausible to me.
Q,
I keep wondering why all the fuss about UK passports.
They must have travelled on their Iraqi & Swedish passports found in the car & the other one was held by the campsite when they checked in.
@katie 5 Mar, 2014 – 11:24 am
“NR 5 Mar, 2014 – 9:53 am
I agree with all you say about the ‘eight hours’ now imagine the reaction if they had said they returned to the car after 13 hours. … daylight.”
@Q 5 Mar, 2014 – 2:58 pm
“@NR: You point to another reason why it is important to know whether the weather was sunny and dry, or wet and humid. Different conditions would result in red blood or brown blood. Sunny and dry conditions, the kind where families might wear shorts and sleeveless shirts, would mean brown blood, unless roaming helicopters and drones were on the scene taking pictures within minutes.”
My guess is that the French processed the scene under floodlights throughout the night. I vaguely recollect a photo or video taken from the journalists’ holding area down the mountain with the glow of lights at Martinet in the background.
If they’d waited until daylight that risked another rain which would wash evidence away. In a mountain area the weather at one hour doesn’t help predict what it might be at another time.
It would be nice to know the times of the last two crime scene pics. Seems they were taken before sunset on the evening of the crime. But enough time had passed to allow the first forensic team to arrive and place evidence markers. The pics could have been part of the official crime dossier, but they both look like amateur snapshots — soft and badly exposed — and one French paper refers to them as snapshots.
How long did it take to obtain a helicopter with a heat-seeking camera, and where did the drone come from?
How much of the delay in opening the car is accounted for by waiting on forensics from Grenoble and Lyon and Paris (I’ve forgotten where the laser scanner came from), and how much was due to frantic diplomatic/secret-service efforts to concoct the first partially credible story?
Marlin
5 Mar, 2014 – 1:22 am as always your posts are very readable and make useful synthesis. In this one the link to Munich which is particularly appropriate as the 40th anniversary almost to the hour is just too big a co incidence to swallow. Some of this posed the aversion to killing kids right at the beginning. I know I suggested it was indicative of training and protocol as distinct to random violence/criminals. I have no doubt they could have killed both girls if they had wanted to. Their survival cannot be accidental.
Now consider this: the story is WHEN THE ATTACK BEGAN Zainab was hidden, so it is highly unlikely she was not spotted apparently sitting on the armrest between the two women. Even if not seen we have the report of Iqbal screaming and telling Zainab to hide, so if the killers didn’t see they probably heard. Now add to this daylight and clear glass and the undoubted fact that such an ambush would have to be meticulously planned, so they must have known there were two children in the car.
Despite all this Zainab physically unharmed apparently with all the bullets directed into the car leads me to think Zainab was either pushed out or pulled out before her mother and gmother were callously executed. As for Zeena my feeling is that she was struck by a stray bullet aimed at one of the adults either inside or outside the car. A left shoulder injury could match one of those near-side bullets that pierced the window glass.
I don;t know whether you spotted my post about Israel delegating killing jobs arm-length to Kurdish units?
Would someone who had spent time in the UK, but lived somewhere else in the meantime, drive down the left side of the road?
Oh the other point I wanted to make followed yours about collateral. This to me has always proved SM WAS an intended target because it would have been easy to time the attack to avoid him. What killing operation would ever be carried out without reconnaissance AND reconnoitre? A simple lookout would give plenty of notice of someone approaching from either direction. Indeed it appears to me that the killing could not go ahead until SM arrived. Conversely if only SM was the target, there was plenty of opportunity to getting him without injuring the Al Hillis. This convinces me that BOTH parties were for some reason targets, and getting them both together at that particular spot, was a necessary and integral part of the plan in the mind of whoever organised it, for whatever reason. Somehow I feel Suhaila is the Kingpin in all this.
Note: Suhaila is the one remaining person of whom no image of any kind has been leaked. There must be a reason for that.
I earlier highlighted the “co-incidences” of timing with Zygier in 2010 preceded by the Dubai balls-up, then the revelations re Iranian agents and programme of scientist assassination and CIA/NSA/Mossad Trojan horse (horse!) to ruin the centrifuges, then when its all wrapped up, Zygier suicided so we never know what firm he worked for in Italy and what he was doing on those Tehran trips.
Then following Chevaline, amazingly the story “leaks” from Australian security to journo causing considerable embarrassment in both Canberra (and probably Melbourne!) and Tel Aviv just when they thought they had put the whole issue to bed. Same time some diplomatic indicators that Israel was being told to pull in its horns.
It seems to me the coincidences for Chevaline are building up as well. Less than three weeks after Chevaline Fred Brun dies in what appears very strange circumstances (driver and passenger escape/he is in the back!/killed yet limited damage to vehicle/police view “nothing to worry about, move on”) adds to questions plus strange obituary as discussed. Then a week later Stan Maillaud (Eric lookalike relation or not?) abducted and incarcerated under very strange circumstances. I think if I remember right we had boats catching fire on the lake about the same time too. Then BB’s report of Fillion-Robin going bust summer 2013 about the same time as eric devousassoux gets the sack. November 2013 the shooting incident in Thiule where WBM just happens to have his house and both devousassoux and his mate live. Strong links to ONF and Gendarmes vehicles. Next door neighbour to Sylvie where previously a white Peugeot 206 parked becomes an ONF base with green 4×4 parked there now. I’m sure ppl can think of more and others we don’t know about.
No conspiracy to assassinate has ever occurred without reverberations, clean-up, intimidation, suppression, and neutralisation of possible leaks. Just saying.
NR
5 Mar, 2014 – 9:53 am I agree with everything you say and observations on SM, some of which I have made myself earlier. One of the biggest relates to the false information that placed him front offside with bike as all the news networks but them there. Why put out false information on that point is an important question. Maybe they didn’t reckon on a press aerial shot that would show a blood stain?
Now as to your reasoning that counters a suggestion Zeena wasn’t as described. It is logical and persuasive. Why would the French invent a story to embarrass themselves? But then we might ask why lie about where SM was found?
If I can suggest a reason why they didn’t choose “she ran into the woods and we found her 8 hrs later” could be the fact they relied on the heat seeking device that shows up bodies in woods. I’m not so sure it would show bodies inside a car through the metal roof. A warmer metal roof from the heat of bodies inside, but not the shape of the bodies and location of heat under that roof. This always puzzled me and I raised it at the beginning.
If the device was placed through the window at ground level (or a dog sniffing even) the location of heat sources would be immediate and gradual differentiation as some cooled and some remained at 37o C or even perhaps marginally higher. But from the air warmth inside the car would show as a warm roof but NOT bodies.
Now having said that, the explanation for not discovering her is shown to be vacuous and therefore suspect.
As if to provide a little illustration of my generalisation about cover up above, from
Kenneth Sorensen
5 Mar, 2014 – 1:02 pm recommendation there’s this little extract – one of no doubt hundreds – illustrates how power works against the individual who dares to shine a light on deception:
“In August 2006, Bollyn was attacked at his home in Hoffman Estates, Illinois, by a heavily-armed three-man team of undercover police that had been prowling around his house for several days in a row. The result of the police assault on Bollyn was that he was falsely charged with assault and resisting arrest; both misdemeanor charges. He pled innocent and went through a four-day trial in which the police openly lied and presented false evidence. Bollyn’s evidence, on the other hand, was not allowed to be presented and his expert witness was not allowed to testify. After the seriously flawed trial, Bollyn was found guilty of both charges and faced sentencing from the same judge who had overseen the trial. – See more at: http://www.bollyn.com/about-christopher-bollyn/#sthash.YY2UxCfJ.dpuf“
Tim V, 6:00 PM – I think you had Zeena and Zainab interchanged? Check?
@Q – you asked a couple of questions (I’m unsure where you were going with this!):
1) There is no ferry service from Bristol. Even if there was it would be a very strange place to go for someone living in Surrey, when there are many nearer ports on the South coast.
2) About driving on the left. Maybe, I would think it would depend how long and how recently they had lived in the UK and perhaps how tired/distracted they were and how quiet the road was.
@Tim – here is another example of a very strange cover up:
“Wang Lam, convicted in secret trial at Old Bailey of killing reclusive writer, argues that he did not receive a fair trial”
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/feb/28/chinese-dissident-secret-trial-fair-european-court-wang-yam
Tried in secret, not allowed to present his defence to the ECHR. He presumably has the potential to embarrass the UK govt.
@others – sorry fot the OT diversion
Q
5 Mar, 2014 – 4:23 pm for information Bristol is on the west side of England and no ferries to France from there. The main ferry route is Dover Calais but there are other routes from Folkestone and the south coast. I don’t believe we have been told which route he used but I could be wrong. Then of course there is Channel tunnel (rail only) which I guess Saad might have preferred?
That Bristol case from September I’d forgotten but thanks for reminding me. I thought it was strange at the time, but for once it appears to have genuine cause though why an intelligent man, even drunk, would choose a trade (i assume) refuse bin, god knows. They are usually locked for one thing and presumably almost full if collection next day. Then the difficulty and smelly nature of them.
People do strange things when drunk and this is very strange for sure. If as it says his flat was in the centre, he was not far away but appears to have been going in the wrong direction towards Clifton rather than the centre but there we go.
re: Killers “sparing” children
I know I’ve said this before:
If this was a Near Eastern security services hit, then I doubt they had instructions to actively harm the children, but on the other hand, I also doubt they had instructions to actively spare them. I also suspect that particular organisation is utterly ruthless especially if those who might be “in the way” are not “one their own”.
Therefore, as Tim says, it seems to me entirely possible that the older girl’s injuries were incidental rather than deliberate.
She also seemed to recover remarkably quickly which also makes me think her injuries were deliberately exaggerated by the French authorities for whatever reason.
Marlin
5 Mar, 2014 – 7:42 pm don’t think I have but apologies if i gave wrong impression. So for clarity Zeena 4 in the back / 8 hrs; Zainab 8 outside injured. Now what I tried to suggest was that to claim Zeena couldn’t be found for 8 hrs because the helicopter heat seeking device didn’t detect her inside the car is flawed because it is not an x ray device. It detects surface temperature. Now it can be useful in detecting a living body inside a car but it does so INDIRECTLY. That is if there is heat from a body inside the car the roof would show “warm” without showing the body inside. So in the case of Chevaline one hour say after the shooting, an air born thermal image of the car might be expected to still show a warm engine compartment and a warm passenger compartment. With time both would cool to ambient temperature unless there was a continuing heat source, such as a living person inside but you see this would not be apparent for some time and needs interpretation. The device does not show in detail what is going on inside the vehicle excepting “hot spots” such as a burning tyre for example. So I am saying to advance that as a reason for not finding her in the car by anyone who knows how it works is misleading the public. Using a heat detector or dog through the door however would have immediately raised the alarm that ZEENA was alive and well leaving aside the many who must have had a good look in through the window whilst it was still light. A baby 0 – 1 yes hideable though quite impossible to keep quiet. The large bulk of the Zeena in her mother’s arms in the photo – I just don’t believe she could hide for five minutes let alone eight hours. Hope that’s clarified the earlier post.
SAH had sailed from Portsmouth I believe on a previous trip to France, form memory when he was on his own (possibly December 2011) when going to Bordeaux area. Very rusty memory on all of this apart from Portsmouth, so he may have liked this route even though it is a longer crossing.
Illuminating Bleb
5 Mar, 2014 – 8:19 pm and earlier. A prime practical example of how in England, justice is secondary to “security”. What do our freedoms and protections amount to if you can be tried for murder in secret and no one is allowed to report the details. You are at the MERCY of MI5/6 anonymity.
Some more coincidental similarities:
Fillion-Robin Michel Leonce has a French Restaurant (local cuisine) in Talloires.
In Talloires, Eric Devousassoux has his second home.
Gerard and Estelle Falcy (Jean Luc Falcy’s parents) have a French restaurant (local cuisine) in Lathuile, where Jean Luc Falcy and Eric Devousassoux live.
Jean Luc Falcy is said to be a construction worker from Lathuile.
Laurent Fillion-Robin was/is a construction worker, too
Sorry Marlin you are quite right at Tim V
5 Mar, 2014 – 6:00 pm. and apologies to everyone. Should have been Zeena at the back on the seat. Thanks for pointing it out Marlin.
CORRECTED SHOULD READ: “Now consider this: the story is WHEN THE ATTACK BEGAN Zeena was hidden, so it is highly unlikely she was not spotted apparently sitting on the armrest between the two women. Even if not seen we have the report of Iqbal screaming and telling Zeena to hide, so if the killers didn’t see they probably heard. Now add to this daylight and clear glass and the undoubted fact that such an ambush would have to be meticulously planned, so they must have known there were two children in the car.”
“Despite all this Zeena physically unharmed apparently with all the bullets directed into the car leads me to think Zeena was either pushed out or pulled out before her mother and gmother were callously executed. As for Zainab my feeling is that she was struck by a stray bullet aimed at one of the adults either inside or outside the car. A left shoulder injury could match one of those near-side bullets that pierced the window glass.”
Apologies to everyone.
Tim V 6:13 PM – yes, we are indeed in agreement on this point regarding “collaterals’. actually I wanted to elaborate on these very points you are making, and here, you beat me to it! well, I’ll elaborate a bit anyways, just to reinforce the point:
For quite some time I have become quite convinced that this could not have been a professional “hit” on just SM or just the Al-Hillis, arranged by someone, be it from UK (such as Ziad) or “local” (against SM). The reason is that such a scenario flies in the face of anything I know about “professionals”. If someone was to just off SM, no way would they produce the all out carnage we’ve seen, not when there were any number of places along the route to shoot SM with no witnesses and none the wiser. Even if the lay-by was intended as the original “hit” location, once the shooter(s) realized there was a car-full of people there, they would have gone on to a Plan B, perhaps further up the road, or when SM turned to go back (as he would have had to do eventually). I know there are people who are willing to entertain the possibility of the Al Hillis being “collateral” damage, but that just make no sense whatsoever, not when so much of the scene carried evidence of professionalism.
Yes, I know EM put out the feelers originally that it was ‘lone nut” panicking. But, other than a few people early on here or on MZT, I doubt anyone would buy into that. Even if we ignore all the other information, such as the total vow of silence that has descended upon the Chevaline area.
Similar argument goes for Al Hilli, especially say, saad being the only target. For someone to have gone to all the trouble of luring him to the martinet, arranging attack timing carefully, all without reconnaisance to ensure no one is coming too soon (ie, SM, WBM or the “third” bicyclist) is ludicrous (just restating what you were saying Tim V). NA real professional 9which would HAVE to be the case if SAH was the sole target) would never carry out such an attack, with witnesses galore and all kind of potential complications. After all, those who suggest SAH was the sole target (yes, that’s people like our EM) is to fly in the face of anything logical. One who was persuasive enough and knowledgeable enough to plan the attack on SAH, would also be smart enough to call it off once they realized that (a) there was a supposedly unknown bicyclist on the scene, and (2) Saad arrived with a car-full of family, including children. Surely to kill them all would have invited considerable scrutiny, not something a “professional” would care to be saddled with.
All this is even before we look at that “complication” known as the children. No serious professional would risk harming children in the process of carrying out their “work” if they know what’s good for them.
The only reasonable conclusion is that this could not have been a “professional” hit either on SM or SAH alone. If it were, that professional is probably toast already, and someone(s) out there should really get their money back (plus a pound of flesh, no doubt).
A similar, but even stronger argument can be made for the hit NOT being carried out by one or another state agency. Those are supposed to be even more professional.
Ergo, it had to be BOTH SM and Saad that were targets (which does not discount the possibility that another member of Saad’s family was on the list of targets as well). If both were targets, the drug deal gone wrong and the local revenge motive go south as potential pistes. There seem to have been nothing careless about the Chevaline affair, though I still believe something has gone badly wrong.
Bleb, I just noticed your response about the children as incidental victims. I do agree that the fact that Zainab recovered as fast as she did would seem to indicate her injuries were not life threatening. All indications are that, ruthless as the killer(s) may have been with regard to the adults, they stopped well short of adding children to the list of victims. That to me, again speaks of a state agency. Even before we look at all the other corroborating evidence, such as the obvious cover-up we have been following for many months now.
My capcha: 1+1=2 quite apropo, I’d say?
Tim V – always glad to serve as back-up editorial board, ever on the look-out for the maximum effectiveness of your posts. Thanks for correcting, especially as these were good points you were making.
We should never forget that there are also silent (and may be not always silent?) observers to this forum. We must not confuse them, right?
Bluebird 10:10PM – those are interesting coincidences indeed. Also that bankrupcy of laurent Fillion-Robi, one that came up right around the time ED lost his police job (for siphoning petrol? kind of flimsy, isn’t it? sounds more like an excuse to get rid of someone than a true reason).
keep pointing these out.
An aside – if witnesses and incidental participants are being scared and warned off – sometimes quite harshly, does anyone wonder where is that ONF1 witness who we heard speak (well, an actor did, probably) on that panorama show?
Surely somewhere under the protection of the Brits, far far away from Chevaline/Lathuile/Droussard? that’s the only thing that might explain EM’s curious non-response to the revelations unveiled so very publicly. Especially ones that practically put a forestry vehicle (ONF1) right on top of the scene at the martinet. Why indeed has he (EM, or underlings) come out forcefully to try and undermine said testimony? what’s holding EM back now that hit has been all but proven that he and his police organization are part of a deep cove
ONF1 has surely violated protocol in speaking to media without authorization and in direct conflict to the official police investigation. At the very least we should have heard of some firings, or ramblings among the forestry personnel. But nothing. Complete silence.
Then we have MZT shutting down, kind of abruptly, with a flimsy excuse of “acrimony” and going off on a battling brit-French agencies (I’d note that during my brief sojourn on MZT< I pointed out the cross-purposes "game" seemingly played by the French and British sides. Never did I get a response on that either way. Not con, not pro, just nothing. As if it was a hot piece of coal that could not be touched).
I think there may well be good reason to believe that those arrests of ED and Falcy were a response by the French. trying to shut down what he could lay hands on?
Q, 2;19PM – I think you are right to point out that it is a bit peculiar that the lawyer employed by the Mollier family is a corporate lawyer. I can think of one reason though – there may not be so many lawyers around in that part of the woods (even if there are quite a few in nearby Albertville) on the one hand and this particular lawyer may have been one that’s been helping the Molliers already with their business interests (like incorporation etc), so they turned to one they knew and who they felt they could trust.
So, not yet ready to include this item in our ever bulging ‘conspiracy portfolio” but will follow any developments that may require re-examination.
The Bristol case was quite strange, in part because this man was about to study for a graduate degree in international security. His undergrad degree was from Carleton University, which is located close to a national sigint facility. I checked his Twitter account for September 2012. After that, I discovered a doppelganger for the E-fit man.
Are we powerful or not? – Watch this entry on Wikipedia to disappear soon
On the 4th of March at 21.50 GMT, someone inserted this reference on
the wiki-article of US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt:
What’t that space in the coming days to see how it will be quietly whiskered away, and all sorts of excuses, including deeming it “improber”, will be used.