The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
So now the missing Malaysian plane not only had four people with stolen passports, 20 Chinese techie geeks, but also….. FIVE people checked in but didn’t board the plane !
What the hell is going on ?
Sorry about that other error re. ONF1 too. And of course as always you inferred right. First Maillaud dropped himself in it by stating that the MC was his chief suspect. One shooter. Easy to escape, maybe up, may be down and importantly not requiring another vehicle OR implicating any French Govt assets. The Panorama/MI5 “revelations” said goodbye to that BIGTIME. It implicated not one but TWO onf vehicles, either side of the killing. “Now get out of that one Maillaud!”
Then another aspect I didn’t make clear, about that MC. We basically have two options with him if Maillaud is right, and he was in fact the shooter which by the way I rather doubt. Either after ONF1 spotted him about 3.15 pm he could have waited until SAH (if that was him coming up at 3.20) unless as I prefer he was already parked up at that time. (Problem: why didn’t ONF1 say he saw SAH was there if he was?) Alternatively he waited for SM to arrive then did all the shooting. He then drove up the Combe and meets ONF2. THIS IS THE POST KILLING ONF2 MEETING SCENARIO. It would put the meeting time at about 3.45 pm but if they both come down together it rules them out passing WBM on the way up as he described. They would also have to come down past the scene of the massacre.
The only alternative, sticking with Maillaud’s claim he was the murderer, is that after being spotted by ONF1 (about 3.15) he turned around and went straight back up the hill to meet ONF2. There’s then possibly just time for him to come back down and do the killing at about 3.30 pm. This could now fit WBM’s account how a 4×4 and MC pass him as he arrived. However of course if this is what happened it drops ONF2 right in it. If Maillaud is right and the MC is the killer, it is difficult not to fully implicate ONF2!
The only al
Katie
10 Mar, 2014 – 12:45 pm – Latest: the passport fraudsters no longer of “eastern appearance”. Early misinformation corrected? Also note names from whom passports were stolen.
Marlin
10 Mar, 2014 – 1:57 am I agree but guess you meant “hay” (He He) As you say, this must be one of the most unproductive criminal investigations ever. (Multiply 100 police salaries plus overheads by 18 months on-going, you get a considerable sum don’t you?)
The other political aspect we need to factor in is the present atmosphere in relation to the police and specifically under-cover work at the Met. This heightened awareness of the need for openness and honesty must be exercising everybody’s mind as it applies to Chevaline. So far the British approach appears to be “if you say nothing no one can claim you lied” but how long this can be maintained is anybody’s guess.
Since you have mentioned the Malaysia incident, perhaps we should remind readers that Saad al-Hilli worked on the design of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. Way back in one of the threads on this site, the forum discussed his connection to the Dreamliner, fires on same, and takeovers in the aviation industry. This ties into Marlin’s post yesterday.
For the record, this is not the same model involved in the Malaysia incident, but it is the same manufacturer.
So for now we have commonalities in both stories, with the matter of stolen or “missing” passports and the same airline manufacturer. We also have the issue of computers: Saad al-Hilli’s numerous computers were part of this investigation. As to the China, a possible connection was also the matter of speculation on these threads (China is a customer of the satellite company Saad al-Hilli worked for). Then there’s religion, which we don’t know about yet in the unfolding Malaysia incident.
It’s not much to go on yet. Time will tell.
FWIW, this article compares the Malaysia incident to Air France, with a link to more information:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/malaysia-airlines-plane-vanishes-over-south-china-sea/2014/03/08/97b1eb4a-a69f-11e3-bf3d-63f593e487a9_story.html
A couple of days ago, I posted information on France’s 2013 White Paper on security. This is the one that had involved Sir Peter Ricketts, the British ambassador to France. Ricketts had worked on the paper for “six or nine months” at the time of the news article, so he was involved from either around December 2012, or September 2012. One of the differences between that White Paper and the previous one was that France would begin treating hacking as an act of war.
A question that might be asked in comparing the Malaysia incident to the Air France 447 incidents is this: can Boeing’s FADEC (full authority digital engine control) system be hacked?
For reference only:
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/05/china-hacks-us-military-secrets-hacker/
http://www.matthewaid.com/post/51551749353/chinese-stole-key-weapons-designs-washington-post
Without implication there is this news report:
http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2014/03/10/murder-investigation-after-mans-body-found-at-shropshire-barracks/
and others of only marginal interest to this thread perhaps. Sometimes things are connected. More often not:
Soldier “F” (since “gone abroad”): http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/460352/SAS-hero-Danny-Nightingale-will-fight-to-clear-his-name
The head of Counter Intelligence at the met, Richard Walton is the same officer who received/handled the Lawrence police spy. The father of one of the later convicted killers was a leading London drugs criminal with any number of Met detectives in his pay including, it is alleged John Davidson who at the time “acted suspiciously” as a detective on the Lawrence murder investigation. Walton has now been moved from his post.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/06/stephen-lawrence-police-corruption-ellison-report
The difficulty of hiding when being sought (genuinely)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/10633292/Manhunt-my-crash-course-in-urban-evasion.html
In answer to your question Katie
10 Mar, 2014 – 12:45 pm the most obvious thing that comes to mind is the fiasco of 9/11.
As to your earlier question as to how I think the glass got at the top end of the lay-by consider this?
Would any self respecting forensics team leave glass fragments originating from fatal gun shot blasts on the ground for two days, whilst having collected all the cartridge cases? The glass would have distinctive residues of possibly lead, gunpowder and DNA.
So either it indicates the best French forensic scientists were completely incompetent; or they left the glass there for a specific purpose; or that they considered it unrelated to the shooting in question; or it was planted and left by someone to paint a false impression.
I’ll let you decide.
Q
10 Mar, 2014 – 2:04 pm back in the day I discussed Ricketts and other high fliers in the Foreign Office. What keeps occurring, perhaps predictably, the interchangeability of certain key posts. Baghdad , Tel Aviv, Washington, Berlin, Paris, the UN when things hot up, AND MI6. As I think you have re-iterated, the reaction of the British to this murder is virtually unprecedented with Rickett’s and deputy dispatched to the scene almost immediately. It flags up the inanity of the French line that this was just another unspecific criminal act, and of either MZT’s naivety or devious stratagem in swallowing it hook, line and sinker.
Tim,
‘Would any self respecting forensics team leave glass fragments originating from fatal gun shot blasts on the ground for two days’.
I’d say emphatically No !
But we are not talking about efficiency here. what we have seen is sheer incompetency.
As the Sky reporter also points out he can see blood too, meaning the site has not been cleaned properly.
I truly believe we were all meant to think those tyre marks are reversing marks.
If you look carefully they do not match that theory…as many of us have said.
But they do match a circle then a reversing. It also explains why/how Mollier could have been dragged by the car.
Bit of cross referencing: http://inquiringminds.cc/uk-911-truth-craig-murray-flight-mh370-the-propaganda-of-death-tony-gosling
Q.
The big difference between the Air France crash & this mystery is that AF had contact with the engineers before going down, didn’t they, this time there was nothing ?
If you look at the incompetency of those pilots it should indicate why the Al Hilli investigation have been such a mess.
Katie
10 Mar, 2014 – 2:34 pm with the best French forensic brains there, “oversights” must be intentional I would say. I think I can claim to be one of the first to debunk the reversing SAH story. WBM beat me to it on the “SM was hit and dragged story”. I think you should go there with a BMW and try to reconstruct your scenario, starting with the car at the top, Saad, Zeena and Sylvain together, and ending up with them all as reported WITHIN THE 30 SECONDS OR SO TIME FRAME ALLOWED BY THE SHOOTING. When you have managed it come back and tell us how.
One thing of note in the Malaysia airline incident. The media is quick to jump on the “T” bandwagon, as our host Craig Murray points out.
And yet at Chevaline, we were told of a (typical?) family of British tourists ruthlessly gunned down when they went for a picnic in the woods. There is not a shred of doubt that the al-Hilli family was anything but a typical family of British tourists. There is doubt that they even went for a picnic, although that has been re-inserted in recent reports about them being found with dishes on their laps. It seems that no one wants to jump on the “T” bandwagon with Chevaline. Better to make people afraid of the bad wolves, or a lone wolf, in the woods.
Firstly Tim, once again, you are quoting what you ‘choose’ to believe with timings.
Secondly, when it comes to the 30 seconds you wish to quote, that’s actually quite a long time for bullets to fly.
If the car was already parked there on the right, the first shot hits him the second he gets out of the car & within another second Mollier arrives, gets shot & falls whilst AH is turning the circle, it is possible in 30 seconds.
Do a count using your imagination & you will see that’s plenty of time to get to where we see the car & for the shooting to continue.
Tim V 12:29PM re your point #2 (and thanks for the repost – it’s crystal clear now!):
With the 3:15PM time (approx) for passing the lay-by and seeing MC there, then allowing MC to go up to the hairpin turn, have a chat with ONF2, then come down again, kill 4 people/injure child, then head down the Combe d’Ire, just in time to meet WBM, pedalling furiously up, is indeed difficult to present, IF the shooting happened at 3:30PM.
Which is why (as I finally figured out!) the panorama program moved the killing to 3:40PM, with WBM arriving just at 3:45PM. I think it’s easy to see why that would be necessary to keep the MC=killer piste. He now has 10 extra minutes to do the kill and meet up with WBM! just barely possible.
But, alas, there’s also ONF 2 to account for. If he follows the MC well, there’s a problem – he (they) may just miss the killing but then, what of the “escorting” MC? so he(they) move down the road first, with MC stopping at the lay-by – an authorized parking spot to have their killing spree, ONF2 keeps driving down to encounter WBM, which leaves just enough time for MC to be done with the mayhem, get back on his cycle and go down the road, in time to be witnessed also by WBM – good and proper-like (so many witnesses to one MC! and still no such is found).
I think this is the scenario the police are hoping will fly. Which only works of course (though just barely) IF and ONLY IF, the killing time is moved to 3:40PM. Which the panorama program (citing no one in particular) did.
I will not repeat the other issues this raises, namely the 3:48PM call (let’s not be surprised if this is suddenly moved up too – by at least 5 minutes!).
Can you make some hay (I can spell, really!) with this now Tim V?
Off topic
malaysia
Forged passports. Stolen first and then falsificated.
The passports werent just stolen but forged. Usually you cannot forge EU passports easily (except for mossad – see Dubai assassination).
Why forged? The Austrian guy is 61 years old. However, the passenger list prints his age as 30.
Passport forged!
Mr.Ali, the Iranian guy from Pattaya (Thailand) is an Iranian jew who claims to have good connections to the Thai foreign police. Mr. Ali organised the flight tickets for the two guys with the forged passports. Mr.Ali was at Thai court last year because of stealing a digital camera and money from two Iranian guys’ hotel room after they spent some days in a Pattaya hotel together. Did Mr.Ali steal the camera because of the pictures with the iranian guys and underage boys? Mossad’s blackmail standard?
The pattaya tourist office clerk said that Mr.Ali is purchasing flight tickets for other people quite often. He is always paying cash.
http://www.pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/73923/hotel-room-theft-results-iranian-arrest-south-pattaya/
This looks more like mossad than the SAH and family assassination.
Katie
10 Mar, 2014 – 3:08 pm
So where do you think the shooter was shooting from, if you think SAH was hit at the top end of the car park?
You say he was first hit when “getting out of the car”. Getting out of the car??? Without having met SM? So how bullets in the back? How the cross contamination blood splash?
Why if shot at the top end did the killer not finish him off there?
If SM was shot as soon as he arrived, where is his bike and why isn’t next to him?
If SAH ran over/dragged him, how did his bike escaped undamaged?
Have you ever tried to carry out a difficult manoeuvre whilst shot sever times and under fire?
Why are there no empty shells at the top end?
Why did the French police feed the story that SM lay with his bike in another place entirely?
And all this without even referring to the incompatibility of width of tyre marks, rear wheel drive/4 wheel drive, geometry, damage to the car, number of available bullets, common sense.
There is obviously nothing that will persuade you that the only sensible explanation is that SAH parked up facing out at the bottom end of the car park, was outside with his daughter and SM off his bike before the attack started, under fire got back to his car and managed to reverse before being shot in the head.
Well done Bluebird
10 Mar, 2014 – 9:33 pm. Your reasoning is sometimes a bit tricky and convoluted to follow but you are our researcher par excellence. If there’s any background worth finding, you do. I agree with you re that latest plane crash. As I suggested, it stinks of Dubai and 9/11. Then we have Lockerbie in 1979 and Air France out of Galeão International Airport in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil in 2009.
WIKI already has a very comprehensive summary @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370 from where this:
“Passengers[edit]
Chinese police in Fuzhou, Fujian, have located a man whose Chinese passport number corresponds to one on the published passenger list. He was not on board and the name on the list next to the number was completely different. However, he had not lost his passport and police suspect the wrong number was published.[87]
The Chinese passengers included a group of 19 artists with six family members and four staff, returning from a calligraphy exhibition of their work in Kuala Lumpur.[88]
20 of the passengers were employees of the Freescale Semiconductor based in Austin, Texas. 12 of these employees are from Malaysia and 8 are Chinese. [89]”
Austin Texas eh? Semi-conductors?
” Interpol stated that both passports were listed on its database of lost and stolen passports, but that no check had been made against its database,[94] noting that very few countries consistently use the database.[93] It was reported that an Iranian man under the name Kazem Ali had purchased the tickets via telephone.[95][96]” Jews, Iranians, European passports used???
Now this flight was going to Peking. Only a couple of weeks after a mass knifing blamed on indigenous Muslims. All shapes up to black ops don’t you think? Aim: civil unrest in China maybe?
Always a bit suspicious when WIKI has all the info within hours. Who the hell supplied it all? BB you any good at answering that one?
Then the mystery of no mayday or automatic system operating although apparently there is significant disagreement over when contact was lost.
WIKI again: “The Aviation Herald website reported that Subang Air Traffic Control lost radar and radio contact with the aircraft at 01:22 and officially advised Malaysia Airlines at 02:40 that the aircraft was missing.[1] However, a Malaysia Airlines spokesperson said that the last conversation between the flight crew and air traffic control in Malaysia had been around 01:30, and stated that the plane had not disappeared from air traffic control systems in Subang until 02:40”
Going off air was a feature of all the 9/11 planes of course as well as “evaporating” on impact!
Bluebird
Thanks for this info re. the Iranian Jew in the far east making forged EU-passports. I know that the authorities sees this all the time – there is so many people wanting to get in, so it’s become an industru in itself. It doesn’t necessarily have anything yo do with terror.
You say EU passports are difficult to forge – so maybe this is the reason they take this roundtrip via Bejing, because law enforcement officers out there are obviously not as interested/keen in spotting false EU-passports, because it is not a direct interest to them – the same if a British officer should spot a Malaysian passports of a persob going back to the far east
.
[Translated by Kenneth Sorensen]
Tim, instead of blasting off all the things you believe happened, why didn’t you answer my question…how do you think the glass got to the right hand side of the carpark in the middle ?
If you think it was deliberately scattered there by police then why do you believe the rest you have been told by Maillaud surely it could be equally false ?
Try some lateral thinking, do you really believe someone would tuck their car away so close to the bank when first arriving at a car park ?
I don’t & we can see the tyre marks going under the car so the reversing version in the media is wrong.Nor can they be rescue vehicles as we first thought ….but they do tally with a circle prior to reversing.
As for Mollier’s blood on AH It’s possible that’s false & an attempt to connect the two men or even an error.
Yes it is possible to drive with a bullet in the back,it may have been a flesh wound & fear can override much pain.
Throughout this turning, shots were being fired at the car hence glass on the right & middle of the carpark bullet holes in the correct side of the car & Zainab was injured, Mollier was shot in the back .
‘He reversed the BMW in a half-circle, accidentally dragging Sylvain Mollier under his wheels. In his panic, Saad reversed too far and jammed his rear wheels into the soft earth of the forest side.’
Mollier was shot in the head ,fell & then in the back as he lay on the ground….or do you really believe he fell face up, surely he was turned as he was dragged?
It was when the car had almost completed the circle it connected with Mollier who was then dragged as AH finally reversed because the gunman or his accomplice’s vehicle blocked his escape downhill.
I’d say he was forced back until he was locked into the bank & not Saad’s error.
In conclusion, this can be the only explanation to the wide area of scattered glass & the tyre marks going under the car.
http://news.sky.com/story/981976/france-shootings-post-mortems-to-begin
Tim, sorensen
In malaysian air disappearance we can see the same secret service story setup for the media as we have had in chevaline, 9/11, boston, sandy hook and in london greenwich.
First it was Balotelli and now it’s iranians.
A 19 years old Iranian in the passenger list listed as to be 30 (apparently looking like Balotelli – or not!) is using the passport of a 61 years old white austrian. If you would search for the most stupid criminals you would have a chance ti find them here. This a a crazy setup to say the least. They could have also used the passport of a 7 years old Irish schoolgirl for a 90 years old iranian mullah. That would be about the same level of stupidity.
The plane did depart at 12:21 what is 21st 2012 if you create some fantasy.
The iranian was sitting on seat # 26 (the front seats in a 777 are never ever cheap Q class. How come?)
All that stupid setup with a disappeared plane and all these stories are already well known. When people find facts, then the scenario will be changed.
This is a developing story that is a carbon copy of false chevaline secret service stories for the media. It stinks and i suspect mossad behind that setup, particularly because they usr iran and thailand as their base for setup stories. Pattaya is a Mossad base and there they are famous for stolen and forged passports.
Ah yes blame Mossad again BB, do tell us what their motive was ?
They deliberately hide something (reminds me on chevaline and the early question about whether or not they will release an efit and CCTV images).
http://www.flightglobal.com
Officials investigating the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER are tight-lipped about Aircraft Communications and Reporting System (ACARS) data reported by the aircraft. Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation is examining ACARS data from the missing aircraft, but senior DCA officials declined to comment on their findings, if any. They also declined to say when ACARS data from flight MH370 will be released – or even if it will be. In response to a question posed by Flightglobal about the aircraft’s ACARS data, one of the officials cited the “sensitivity of the investigations.”
Katie:
I did not say that it was mossad.
I said that they have a base in pattaya and that they are infamous for stealing and forging EU passports. 300 visa for malaysia were recently stolen from the malaysian embassy in bangkok (thailand). That’s why it was easy to enter malaysia with a forged visa.
This could have been criminals, too, but mossad holds a good record in doing that.
They are Iranians BB, ‘Ali’ was Iranian who sold the tickets & who were on the planes travelling under assumed names.
Due to the radar data i suspect that the airplane savely landed here (without transponder):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMAF_Butterworth
Why there?
It is either terrorism or NATO wants something from passengers on board. Freescale?
That explains the ringing cell phones.
Currently there are no flight data available from penang civil airport either. Looks as if it is closed, too.
I suggest to search for the plane here
:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMAF_Butterworth
It is currently the headquarters of the Five Power Defence Arrangements Integrated Area Defence System for Malaysia and Singapore, which is commanded by an Australian Air Vice Marshal.