The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Yes Peter I posted on that long ago, he was a pharmacist , I couldn’t really see a connection,yes his children were left alive & were asleep, but Baigent was not in the car when found,so did the killer even know they were there ?
Edit: Baligant.
Do not expect any more from me to you on this. .
OK, thanks – I’ll take that as a “no” then.
Do keep us all updated on your fatuous “Mob” conspiracy theory, won’t you.
@Dave
Interesting… so you’re suggesting we consider a Jewish conspiracy theory?
I also wonder who witnessed that trip to Qoms………maybe that trip was actually to Tel Aviv, who knows ?
Did the Qom info come from Aked as did the Israeli rants etc ?
Could Aked be covering for our mystery man ?
Assuming for the moment that the murder weapon were a 7.65mm Para of Swiss origin, with FMJ ammo, what damage would that do to a human head at close range? What would you expect in terms of blood, brain, and skull tissue in the car? And what possibilities would there of silencing the weapon? Also, in how many seconds could the magazine be emptied? And how many rounds does it carry? If, say the shooter (or shooters) had two or three, and were firing rapidly, would it sound anything like automatic fire?
Again, I am the wrong person to ask, as I have never shot 7.65 Para at anything, let alone a human head. Speculating, I should expect the results to be quite messy, but not as messy as with hollowpoint ammunition. I cannot say how much a car’s side window would slow down and deform such a bullet, but I suspect not by much. Thus, I should expect rather small, neat exit wounds in the victims’ heads, without a lot of brain matter etc. being spattered about.
Regarding the silencing, it would be difficult to make such a gun super-quiet, eliminating the sonic crack as well, but, owing to the shape of the gun, the protruding barrel, it would be very easy indeed to attach a fairly effective suppressor to it.
Regarding the rate of fire, reloading etc., there is no difference between that type of pistol and any other. In trained hands, it can shoot almost as fast as an automatic weapon, and, with practice, changing magazines takes only fractions of a second.
Hyperinfaltion is killing Iran at the moment, a mix of sanctions and espionage by the CIA & Israel has helped to slow up Nuclear progress and also cripple the country from the inside out!
As Mollier was a supporter of Iran and because of SAH’s connection they may have been money raisers for the cause, with the connections of both Al Saffar and Al-Hilli families this could be a fine revenue stream and with the help of Swiss bank accounts could be helping to save Iran from crisis.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world/middleeast/as-irans-currency-keeps-tumbling-anxiety-is-rising.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
SAH’s passion for opressed states and hatred for Israel could have motivated him into being the bank man!
@Katie
So… do you still want us to consider an Iranian conspiracy theory? Even though it’s not their MO? (That means, “Modus Operandi”, Katie, it’s the way the police categorise criminals’ habits.)
Iran’s MO is trial, conviction, execution.
Ricki.
How do you know Mollier was a supporter of Iran ?
I also wonder who witnessed that trip to Qoms………maybe that trip was actually to Tel Aviv, who knows ?
Yeah. And maybe it was to the moon.
What was that you and Dave said yesterday about “mindless speculation”?
It’s strange how it only seems to annoy you when it’s others that do it… Or perhaps when it’s about sensitive subjects, such as beamlines or Aldermaston…
If that French report is true about Saad taking photos not long before the shootings then it seems they were a normal family where taking snaps like normal families do…so how come not one family snap, or snap of the two women has been published?
@Ferret
5 Oct, 2012 – 10:38 am
“Iran do execute people they have convicted through their court system of collaborating with Israel of sabotaging their nuclear programme, and this is not just scientists.
However, they are not in the habit of going round the world blowing people away, though.”
One reason for Iran to eliminate Mollier and/or al-Hilli is if they have supplied faulty material to the Iranian nuclear program. A meeting with the suppliers would also explain why the Iranians could be on the right place at the right time. And the killing would scare others to do the same thing.
Just recently Iran published pics of parts that was sent from the suppliers that was sabotage to the nuclear program. It was zirconium of low and false quality. It was also sent parts with explosives inside, that could be be triggered by satellite signals.
The original article from Iran ( in Farsi ):
http://www.khabaronline.ir/detail/246065/politics/nuclear
And the Ynet article i English:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4286162,00.html
“Following his speech at the UN on Wednesday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad promised that Tehran could “thwart any attempts to sabotage its nuclear facilities.”
—
The Iranians claim that western intelligence agencies planted faulty spare parts.
—
According to the Iranians, “terrorists and saboteurs” attempted to blow up the Natanz and Fordo nuclear facilities’ electric lines last August. At first, Iran refrained from publishing news of the blast, but last week its atomic energy chief, Fereydoun Abbasi-Davani announced the news.
—-
According to the report, “some of the pieces had an intelligent processor stashed inside to disable them through satellite-emitted signals.”
—-
Among the equipment on display was a zirconium powder and metal used in nuclear reactors as a protective layer for fuel rods. The Iranians claim they received a powder with 25% instead of 65% which could sabotage the uranium enrichment process.
An intelligence source at the exhibition said that since the end of 2009 “the sabotage against our nuclear and energy facilities has increased and in recent months has been carried out in against our petrol, gas, communications, nuclear and defense sectors.”
##############
On the other hand, Moller and/or al Hilli could have been working for Iran, to supply clean zirconium, and giving knowledge of how to avoid satellite transmitted exposives in parts for the nuclear program. Then Mossad is the natural direction to look at.
“normal family where taking snaps like normal families do”
Normal families don’t sit in cars in remote carparks for an hour.
Kenneth Sorensen
What have you thought about intelligence services? That they’re doing the dirty work of assassinations? Never! They are paying for that. There are professional organisations (some of those officially reknown as terror organisations) who are doing that job for big money. Also mafia clans are doing that job, either for money or for a deal that government would not interfere their smuggling and other activities for the time being.
You can find professional killers (organised within organisations) in Middle East, Far East, in Chechnia (those Chechnians are the best killers and they offer the best price), in the Ukraine, and even in Germany within its Neonazi scene, and of course in Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, ….. you name it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they would finally present us the lunatic Gavrilo Princip or the lunatic Harvey Oswald as the Alps killer. They won’t be able to tell us why, but they have the killer and in fact one of them was the killer. No doubts about that. However, who had paid them, they won’t know and if they knew, they wouldn’t tell. And if they tried to tell, there would be a deadly accident in jail. e.g. suicide by deliberately banging his own head into the jail door until he were dead. Pity.
Dopey, I still say , no pics because the women could be recognised……..so… by whom ?
@Dopey
If that French report is true about Saad taking photos not long before the shootings then it seems they were a normal family where taking snaps like normal families do…so how come not one family snap, or snap of the two women has been published?
That is a really good point, Dopey. Why indeed…
Normal families don’t sit in cars in remote carparks for an hour.
Well, they might do if Daddy were a nuclear beamline scientist, with a clandestine 3pm appointment with a metallurgist from the nearby nuclear plant… who is almost an hour late…
Alternatively you might go with Peter’s suggestion from way back when, and suppose they were just having a normal family picnic, at 3pm in the afternoon, in the forest.
Recycing an argument from the first thread again, are we Dave?
@Bluebird
I wouldn’t be surprised if they would finally present us the lunatic Gavrilo Princip or the lunatic Harvey Oswald as the Alps killer. They won’t be able to tell us why, but they have the killer and in fact one of them was the killer. No doubts about that. However, who had paid them, they won’t know and if they knew, they wouldn’t tell. And if they tried to tell, there would be a deadly accident in jail. e.g. suicide by deliberately banging his own head into the jail door until he were dead. Pity.
Don’t be silly.
He’ll shoot himself in the back while trying to escape.
They where not ordinary tourists?
I didnt know who the good guys and bad guys where?
Find out what Saad did and youll know who killed him!
One of the dead could have had connections to Criminals or espionage?
Riddles in the dark!
Yugoslavia was the only place in mainland Europe that Nazi Germany never managed to supress. Guerillas from there are formidable fighters and know mountain terrain l AND they have some very recent war experiences.
Find some ruthless people among those * — people who already are wanted for war crimes, so that the prospect of further imprisonment is not an issue — and you have our ideal candidates for having carried out this beastly attack. Since they know mountain terrain so well, I would certainly expect that they came and fled that way – over the mountains, possibly on bikes (at least close to the crime scene, because dogs would not be able to picj up a scent).
Now we only need to establish which ruthless, deadly efficient, cosmopolitic agency would be able to recruit these people?
To choose a Swiss army weapon is meant as an extraction – but it is also a good, reliable weapon that do not do any unnecessary damage.
Israel has on its training grounds in the Negev all sorts of weapons to choose from, and they gave those Serbs this weapon to train with.
———-
*) {http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213013/Alps-murder-carried-brutal-rigour-suspect-found.html#ixzz28PX9DbIt}
@Dave
Normal families don’t sit in cars in remote carparks for an hour.
Well, they might do if Daddy were a nuclear beamline scientist, with a clandestine 3pm appointment with a metallurgist from the nearby nuclear plant… who is almost an hour late…
Alternatively you might go with Peter’s suggestion from way back when, and suppose they were just having a normal family picnic, at 3pm in the afternoon, in the forest.
Recycing an argument from the first thread again, are we Dave?
@ dave
“normal family where taking snaps like normal families do”
Normal families don’t sit in cars in remote carparks for an hour.
………………………………..
Dave, please dont be selective in what part of my post you choose to quote and comment upon. It comes across as a deliberate attempt to misconstrue what I was saying.
“I still say , no pics because the women could be recognised……..so… by whom ?”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-432876/Swedens-fury-Iraqi-embassy-issues-false-passports.html
@ferret
Alternatively you might go with Peter’s suggestion from way back when, and suppose they were just having a normal family picnic, at 3pm in the afternoon, in the forest
++++++++++++++++++++++
Picnic? Inside the car? They were campers and surely if I wanna do a picnic in the forest I would
1) not do it in the parking lot but do a short walg off the street, perhaps closer to the river
2) if granny couldn’t do that because she was apparantly unable to walk due to her age, then I would take out some camping chairs and perhaps a camping table so that at least granny and my wife could sit in the fresh air. They were campers, so they definitely had some of those chairs.
3) If I would sit on the surface of the parking lot, at least I would prepare a blanket or some sort of carpet on the floor full of inconvenient stone and mud.
4) If I had a picnic, I would prepare something to eat, at least some bread and cheese and perhaps tomatoes and water or juice. Where are the remains and the garbage apparently left?
There was no sign of a picnic and there was no sign for a tracking walk. They were simply waiting in that car for Mollier.
Bluebird, see my post from 6:52 am, where I quote you as saying that Ikbal’s sister is Yasser, Senior Economist at the Bank of England. Can you confirm this.
You can read all the Silver Fern accounts back to 2007 on Duedil,in my limited experience one of the better sites for trying to find company information.
https://www.duedil.com/company/05708870/silver-fern-sussex-limited/financials
anyone with financial knowledge who can give us an analysis?
@Bluebird
5 Oct, 2012 – 11:45 am
The al-Hilli family was also dressed up, and not dressed for the forest.
Didn’t they also have luggage with them?
Right Dopey, just been hunting for the photos. Already have thoughts about the significance of such photos and look forward to seeing them.
@ KS, BB
I believe Yaser is the BoE economist – son Ali, wife Maha Yousif – no proven relationship to Iqbal
I believe Yasser is a first cousin in Sweden.
Open to correction with sources.
@Kathy
5 Oct, 2012 – 11:58 am
It was first reported that the 4-year girl was found under the mothers legs and bags.
Later on the bags was not mentioned in the media.