The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
This is obviously work in progress. Hopefully, more people can weigh in on this – make suggestions? additions? modifications?
For the Timeline, we plan to use Tim V’s layout, modified with the appearance of the ONF1’s testimony. It’s really difficult to find things through the 100 pages of this blog, but, Tim V, perhaps you could better direct me to where those layouts were?
Also, we hope that people (those still here, reading occasionally) can offer more scenarios, including your favorite. I intend, BTW, to do my best to import at least one of Max’s scenarios from MZT – will try and get his permission.
We could use one more editor to look over the documents/spreadsheets as they evolve. If anyone is comfortable doing that please let us know? it’s really simple to “invite’ more people to view/edit in Google Docs.
Intp1/Marlin,
Scenario:
SAH & SM are conspirators in supplying intelligence to 3rd party
Possible rewording?
SAH & SM are conspirators possibly working on behalf of one or more 3rd parties
Evidence for:
Addition?
Censorship in the mainstream media
refs:
1) 5th para
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/the-al-hilli-conundrum/comment-page-34/
2) Janesmith101 @ 9 Sep, 2012 – 7:29pm
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/shootings-in-france/comment-page-2/#comments
FWIW – I also witnessed this happening on The Guardian Cif site. I saw what, to me, seemed to be perfectly reasonable comments just disappearing later in the day without explanation (not the more usual “didn’t meet community standards” message). From the few that I saw before they disappeared, I formed the impression that “nuclear” and “Israel” were the trigger words.
This, of course, might just be The Guardian being scared of “cifwatch” – supposedly “dedicated to monitoring antisemitism and combating the assault on Israel’s legitimacy in the Guardian newspaper’s ‘Comment is Free’ blog.”
http://buddyhell.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/cifwatch-imagined-slights-smears-and-closing-down-debate/
Thanks Bleb – good suggestions. In the spreadsheet format we have space for key links, so we can insert one of yours there.
Do you happen to recall – or have handy – any one of Tim V’s old posts on the Timeline? I have found one but there were more, since I kept asking for refresh. Of course, if he be around, things would be easier…..
timeline – no, not offhand but if I come across it I’ll let you know.
Marlin – here is one:
Tim V @ 16 Oct, 2012 – 11:15 pm
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/not-forgetting-the-al-hillis/comment-page-19/#comments
I’m going thru this thread from the start looking for “timeline” and then “Tim V”. Trying to be methodical but only a bit at a time. Up to page 20 so far (a reminder to me of where I’m up to!).
Poster “Afrend” has produced “Habbabreak” a greasemonkey script that allows Firefox users to selectively block seeing posts on CM made by users of your choice (who you may, for instance, regard as disruptive and/or abusive). A sort of ignore list facility.
It is here: https://greasyfork.org/scripts/246
I’ve not tried it yet but there have been times when I would have been glad of it in this thread, thankfully not recently.
One to remember – thanks Alfrend.
I’ve said it before: You need to provide an URL to the document (right click and choose: “publish to the internet”). When are you going to do it? Hopefully you will do it some day? If not, then you might as well stay away from here, as your posts can then best be described as disruptive.
Overall, it sounds over-intellectual in its scope, but now lets have a look, so we can critise it! As I’ve said: This is standard procedure in the academic world, that results are published in the end, and even in its preliminary stages there are several advantages by keeping and open process, because any faults could easily be corrected by being submitted to the superior knowledge of your peers.
@Kenneth Sorensen
12 Apr, 2014 – 4:09 &4:10 am
What we posted above is what we have written on the first candidate out of the hat. Right now it’s a sand box and you see what we have. So let’s hear it and once each idea is reasonably fleshed out we can post it all.
we can post it all.(each one by one)
More “timeline”
1) Tim V @ 21 Oct, 2012 – 9:49 pm
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/not-forgetting-the-al-hillis/comment-page-22/#comments
2) Tim V @ 13 Nov, 2012 – 1:46 pm (doesn’t actually mention “timeline” but discusses timings – maybe this method of searching is a bit useless if Tim didn’t often use “timeline” in his posts)
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/not-forgetting-the-al-hillis/comment-page-37/#comments
Up to page 40
Thanks Bleb – you are such a hard worker! can I hire you?
i do know what it’s like to go through this thread. Did a few times (or tried!)> So many tangents, so many good – and not so good – speculations, and so many leads to nowhere.
I’ve had another idea that might make it a bit easier:
use “Habbabreak” (see: Bleb @ 12 Apr, 2014 – 1:42 am) to filter out all the usual suspects leaving only Tim’s posts visible (+ a few occasional posters). Probably won’t be able to try for a few days.
@Marlin – you’d soon discover I’m as lazy as a lazy thing 🙂
Lars has posted an update on the murder of Nicole Tournier five people arrested .
From second link:
“Two men, a carpenter of 40 years residing in Doussard and a young Glazier Ugine, were indicted for murder .”
” the other three suspects are nothing to do with the murder. They were indicted for attempted theft by an organized gang with weapons .”
http://www.lessorsavoyard.fr/Actualite/Fil_Infos_regionales/article_1817362.shtml
http://alpes.france3.fr/2014/04/16/en-marge-de-la-tuerie-de-chevaline-le-meurtre-de-lathuile-en-passe-d-etre-resolu-460463.html
There comes a new movie into the cinema now, french title:
Alceste à bicyclette
I thought that the British film industry used a funny translation for tge title of this new french movie:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_with_Moliere
“Cycling with Moliere:”
A once great actor, Serge Tanneur (Fabrice Luchini), has retired from the limelight. Too much pressure meant that one day, he simply decided he would act no more. For the past three years, he has lived in solitude on the Île de Ré, spending his time cycling through the windswept landscape. Fellow actor Gauthier Valence (Lambert Wilson), whose career is flying high, is planning a production of Molière’s play The Misanthrope and wants to offer Serge the role of Filinte. Gauthier is convinced he will accept, since Serge himself has become a misanthrope, withdrawn from society and raging against the world. It would be wonderful to see him return in that part. But Serge plays hard to get, first of all as he want to play the title role. Instead of committing, he suggests they rehearse together for the week. Things look to be going well, especially when a mysterious Italian divorcee (Maya Sansa) brings a romantic spark into his life. With the play’s producer, Gauthier’s agent and his lover all arriving on the island at the weekend, the pressure is on Serge to make up his mind. Is he merely toying with Gauthier, or does he really intend to take to the stage once more?
The only charpenter of Doussard is that guy:
http://www.charpente-duverger.com/#!
@ Bluebird
Hi, can I ask if you have the authoritative names for the Al Hilli family members?
I appreciate whatever you have.
Mr Sorensen! – I claim my £5.
[craigmurray.org.uk – detected & deleted]
Saturday 19 April 2014
HAUTE-SAVOIE
Murder Latheron: weapon fished crime in Isère
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2014/04/18/l-arme-du-crime-repechee-dans-l-isere
“Yesterday, the court Annecy, prosecutor and investigators returned in detail on the six-month investigation that led to the arrest this week of five individuals suspected of involvement in the murder of Nicole Communal-Tournier on 11 November in Latheron”
Thanks Pink.
I’ll be interested to see if this gets to court and what comes out.
Am I correct in assuming trails in France are usually held in public?
I don’t know anything about the french system Bleb I am just picking up the links from the french papers to help keep us up to speed with what’s happening, they seem to be saying this was a botched robbery, given the proximity of the murders I am sure they will be looking at the possibility there may be a connection.
It does seem to have been planned with look outs who were not part of the actual shooting so there is an element of a criminal gang rather than a random robbery.
I remember people searching the culverts at Chevaline I wonder if they looked in the river for the gun.
Two brothers 20 and 30 years, residing near Albertville and a carpenter from Doussard, 41.
Plus two young guys from Ugine (20 and 23)
They used one Beretta 9 mm pistol and a shotgun 12 mm.
The shooter was the young guy from Ugine (23).
Carpenter of Doussard: Phillippe Duverger (41).
Remember:
“A man named only as Philippe D by the French press said he and two friends were driving up …. ”
Veronique Duverger (his wife, 40, maiden name Dragazzi) is a member of the Doussard ski club and a cyclist who is taking part in local cycling races and triathlons.
Coincidence?
Bluebird – cr*p !
https://www.facebook.com/veronique.duverger#!/veronique.dragacci.duverger?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab
Do you really think that she and he would still be posting on Facebook after his arrest in February, her until yesterday ?
Philippe (D) Bossy has been on the television, he is identifiable and nothing to do with a petty criminal who has offended before.
DDT
I can see her posting on fb. But him?
Where could you see him posting?
DDT
He is the only carpenter from Doussard and he is 41 years old (born 1973). That fits with the police reports.
Perhaps coincidence?
On his fb page there are 3 additions after feb 23rd only but no posts. The 3 additions could have been posted by everyone who has got access to his fb account as those are just reposted (shared) posts by other fb users. Nothing what he did create at his own.
I simply mentioned the coincidence that his name is Phillippe D. ….
I never thought that the Bossy stuff was real. That Bossy story always looked to me like having been setup for the media.
Phillippe D. is a member of a local free climbing sports club.
His personal Facebook page.
DDT
Yes. I looked into his fb page.
See my response above.
No messages since feb 23rd. Just 3 reposts (shares).
I never said that he is the one.
I just said that he is the only registered carpenter in Doussard and that he is coincidentally 41 years old and that is fitting exactly with the police report.
That his name is Phillippe D. is just another coincidence, isnt it? That reminds me of the killers who are coming back to the scene of their crimes as a “sudden but innocent witness”.
Quote from sept 2012
The French hiker, a 41-year- old who asked to be identified as Philippe D, is the first witness to have spoken publicly about the …
Of course I know that in 2012 he must have been 39 but not 41.
However, this guy is the only Phillippe D. in that area.
All Phillippe D’s seem to be 41 years old, are they?