Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278


The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?


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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis

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  • DDT

    You need to look again, commented on a link on the 31st March, you can tell alot by a persons friends.

    Philippe Bossy exists, he is the guy seen on TV in one of the documentaries, he is a Mountain Guide and presents ‘conferences’, appears to live in Annecy.

    Have you not thought that the ‘carpenter’ by trade could be an employee, why assume that he has his own business, also does the super duper website look like someone who has been in trouble for robbery in 1996 and 2011, add to that implicated in two during the month of October last year ?

    Seeing as Marlin didn’t understand about Frederique and Frederic, the former is feminine, the latter masculine.

    Goodbye.

  • bleb

    Defence barrister: My client is obviously not guilty of this terrible robbery, just look at his superb website.

    Nonsense isn’t it.

  • bluebird

    The funny thing is that I already had him “on radar” back in september 2012 simply because he was the only Phillippe D. living in that environment of Lake d’Annecy. But then it was Bossy who appeared on screen (a guy who “makes conferences”) and Phillippe D. was debunked.

    Now the very same Phillippe D. pops up on radar once again. Of course that could be just bad coincidences and we won’t know the truth unless the court releases the names or at least the initials in relation to the Communal-Tournier killers.

  • bluebird

    Bleb

    Well spotted.
    There’s definitely more than that.
    We’ll see once the court will release names …

  • Ferret

    Hi everyone – looks like I picked a good time to pop back in!

    Intp1, excellent idea to put something together offline, it’s been mooted before but never come off, this time it looks like you’re really going to make it happen, so good on you and on Marlin and Bleb and everyone else who’s supporting this initiative. 🙂

    I couldn’t agree more about how hard it is to search here, and this new initiative has given me the impetus to finally finish, and screw up my courage to publish something I started last August as a personal search tool… I realise it might lead to TPTB identifying me (FWIW) but at least it’s on a shared server and uses a generic sub-domain name, so I haven’t made it any easier for them…

    So… what is it, I can hear you ask…

    Bleb, you’re going to love me for this (although perhaps hate me for not publishing it a few weeks earlier!), it’s a search engine which covers all three threads, and allows you to search the comments by keyword or phrase, author, and/or thread.

    So… put your VPN goggles on and scroll on over to alhilli.linkpc.net and take a squiz – feedback welcome.

    BTW it’s not live-linked to this blog so new comments here don’t automatically get added to the search engine, but it does cover everything up to p100 on this thread so should be useful for most applications.

  • bleb

    Thanks Ferret – your search tool seems to work a treat. First impression was how quick it was. I didn’t check if it actually returned all the results it should!

    Anyway I think it will enable Marlin to look up the timeline stuff for themselves far quicker than I could ever dig it out. So I’m stopping my puny manual searching.

    I used it from Firefox with the anonymox add-on enabled.

  • Ferret

    That’s excellent! 🙂 Glad to hear it’s working well – though as you say it’s hard to test whether it’s doing everything it should. Marlin, are you able to get what you need from it? If it needs any tweaks, let me know…

  • Pink

    I just came across this story about the missing passports that might be useful for the archives .
    http://news.sky.com/story/1159412/alps-murders-mystery-of-missing-uk-passports

    Friday 25 October 2013
    “French investigators have still not found the UK passports of two family members who were murdered in the French Alps, adding to the mystery surrounding the case…

    “Eric Maillaud, the prosecutor in charge of the case, said: “We never found the British passports of the al Hilli couple. Investigators searched absolutely everywhere, on the bodies, in the family caravan, in the house in Claygate (in the UK).”

    And EM is quoted as saying this what do you take him to mean by Given the timing?..

    “Given the timing (of the killings), it’s not impossible that the killer took the two passports … but that would have been tight.”

    Investigators also looked for the passports in police stations, hotels and lost property offices along the route that the al Hilli family took on their holiday from the northern French city of Calais to Annecy.”

  • bleb

    @Pink – re: “what do you take him to mean …”

    The first thing that comes to my mind, assuming EM is correct about the timing being “tight”, is that maybe the killer(s) took the passports as some sort of proof in order to be paid, with the implication that there was some sort of bounty being offered. But why just the UK passports?

    What I find hard to believe is that the passports were taken, if they were taken, for their black-market value.

  • Pink

    It seems an odd thing to say it reads to me like, he had time to take them but not much time ,the passports would have been in a locked revving car that was in reverse so it seems unlikely that the killer opened the boot lid and its unlikely he could reach in a find just what he wanted ,wasn’t it mentioned at one time that the other passports were found on the floor ?

    quote
    “Given the timing (of the killings), it’s not impossible that the killer took the two passports … but that would have been tight.”

  • intp1

    @Ferret
    24 Apr, 2014 – 1:41 pm

    Re: alhilli.linkpc.net

    Awsome!

    Many thanks and welcome back

  • bleb

    @Pink – yes I seem to remember it being reported at one time that several passports were found in the front footwell.

    Just “thinking aloud”…

    The killer(s) might have not needed time to search for the UK passports if, for example, the AHs had handed the UK passports to the killer(s) voluntarily before being shot.

    Maybe on demand from “fake” policeman? (remember that “identikit” image of man in motorcycle helmet) or maybe to establish identity with another party to a pre-arranged meeting?

  • Pink

    @Bleb
    That’s what I was thinking it would need a rejig of the facts we know so far though ,also the keepers of the forest could ask for ID and we know they were thereabouts.
    I find that comment if accurate very puzzling.

  • Pink

    We need a scenario which has Saad opening the boot to retrieve passports,or were they in the car and he got out with two and dropped others on the floor .
    Or giving two to someone and then trouble starts and he dives back in the car with the others and drops them on the floor.
    Does trouble start once passports are handed over or when SM arrives ?
    The only reason I can think of for someone wanting to see passports is to ID them, does it increase the chance of it being a hit, a nutter is not going to want passports ?
    I find it hard to think a hit would involve killing so many when SAH at been going out alone and could have been attacked in a much less risky fashion so why then ?
    Afterthought is it significant that the passports chosen to show were british ones ?

  • bluebird

    Maybe EU passports are of value for petty criminals? I mean that you can maje money with stolen EU passports oarticularly when they have pictures of iranian look alikes.
    Simply remember the austrian and the italian passport used for two iranians in MH370.
    The stolen passports could be simply theft not unlike taking a watch from a wrist.

  • bleb

    @BB – yes, I am sure there is a trade in stolen passports but would anyone really linger at the murder scene (tight timing according to EM) just to take a couple of passports to sell? Stolen passports can’t be that valuable can they?

    @Pink
    1) “does it increase the chance of it being a hit, a nutter is not going to want passports ?”
    I my view yes. I’d add that any sort of locally motivated criminal is also unlikely to be interested in passports. I suppose it is possible that such a person (nut/local) might simply have forgotten to drop them.

    2) “is it significant that the passports chosen to show were british ones ?”
    I’d say, only in that, if you have dual nationality (EU nation/other nation) and are travelling in the EU you would probably to choose to show your EU nation passport to avoid any possible complications with officialdom.

  • Pink

    Forgetting to drop them does not sound like an option really Bleb with all the panic and running around ,could have picked them up on leaving though if they were dropped.
    I do wonder if the missing passports and the boot being open are related ,someone asks for ID and SAH has too go into boot to retrieve them ,if Zainab had mentioned something like that I would assume they would not have been stressing the search for the missing passports at the end of October ,also there would have been no reason for Zeena to be hiding if a bogus/real official was asking for ID.

    Need some ideas on these missing passports anyone got any?

  • intp1

    @Bleb
    28 Apr, 2014 – 1:30 pm

    If SAH was in any way working on behalf of HMG or even a non-friendly agency, they might have issued him fake ID.

    WBM had to act fast to create a plausible scenario out of the mess, he might have removed the passports. Or if the Team from Paris removed them, the Gendarmes would be non the wiser? Or they might have had them confiscated and told to STFU.

    Though this would mean Iqbal was also issued ID which is a bit less plausible.

    Here is a scenario I am sketching out for the google docs project:

    Scenario 1.3
    Either SAH or SM are provocateur cut outs working for an agency that is trying to entrap non-friendlies to reveal themselves & to gain information. A variation proposed by “CD” a while ago is that they are both being used by different agencies unknown to each others’ service, each believing the other to be a genuine threat. Then one of these agencies is spooked and starts shooting OR, per CD, a third party agency gets wind of the meeting and blows them all away no questions or permissions asked.

    So either this was an operation to trap SAH into making an exchange or MI6 cajoled SAH to do a little fishing for agents willing to help terrorists or Iran or whomever is Pariah that month. But as can happen, the mark turns out to be the same thing looking back at them, looking for buyers of sensitive information to reveal themselves e.g. for the French.

    By interception of communications or some leak, the CIA or Mossad (e.g.) hear about a meeting and what is supposedly on offer. The launch a black op and take everybody out with impunity, to punish and set an example.

    Key Assumptions
    The luger ammunition and broken pieces are a rouse. Some custom automatic weapon is built to use the 7.65*21mm ammo.
    That the killers had gained this information unbeknown to either or both SAH & SM or their handlers

    Evidence for
    Technical people with Govt connections are known to be sometimes used this way and they often have little tradecraft which is more authentic but hairy for them.
    Both SAH & SM were connected to high tech, defense, aerospace or nuclear companies
    The cut out(s) were not adequately protected but if the threat to them was from a third party, that might be more understandable?
    Information on SM seems strictly limited
    SM’s blood found on SAH, indicating the two were proximate, supporting a meeting.
    Provides a reasonable role for WBM arriving on the scene and his actions (searching pockets, moving body, etc). i.e. had to create a quick cover story before the French were forced to release him by MI6
    Consistent with Vehicles witnessed. (There might have been more than one fleet of cars operating.
    SAH’s signs of nervousness.

    Does not explain or Evidence against:
    From SAH’s POV, this kind of operation is inherently risky. The last thing you would involve your family in.

    Although a quiet spot, choice of rendez-vous not ideal;-parties would be conspicuous. Hard to abort safely if trouble. Easy to ambush

    EXPLAINS ONLY IF and OR:
    SAH was a real threat so no protection afforded to him
    Meeting place was arranged by SM for adequate surveillance
    SAH was very naive or misled about the risks
    SAH did not inform his controllers that the family would be involved
    If WBM was on a bicycle he would have been shadowing SM on the bicycle, not the BMW
    WBM was a minder but failed to protect any of the 4 victims.
    Anyone assigned to mind SM failed to protect him

    Unknowns
    Who were the entrapment parties?
    Who, if any, were the real un-friendlies?
    Who would have such superior intelligence to intercept the secret operation and then have no qualms about eliminating all on foreign soil? A)Only 2 options.
    Hard to think, even representatives of the above options would shoot and beat a child. if so, why?

    Discuss
    🙂

  • Pink

    @Intp1
    Why would any of that require a fake passport surely a fake passport would be to hide your identity ?

  • bleb

    @Intp1 – “Hard to think, even representatives of the above options would shoot and beat a child. if so, why?

    I’ve probably said this (several times) before…

    Assuming your scenario is what happened:

    The child was not necessarily deliberately shot (ie stray bullet) and the head injuries might have been caused by falling and/or being hit by a moving vehicle rather than by being deliberately beaten.

    In other words the “representatives” didn’t deliberately set out to hurt the children but equally (and leaving aside the mental damage aspect) they didn’t care if the children got physically hurt or killed as long as they carried out the mission.

    I believe at least one of your two options is easily capable of this.

  • Pink

    Sticking to passports BB found a history for this family there are a lot of relations that we have come across there are the friends ,neighbours, schools,employers and workmates who knew them I think the only missing bit was the dubai trail so how would a fake passport fit ?

  • intp1

    @Pink
    28 Apr, 2014 – 11:09 pm

    A) I am not sure but it loops back to why would anyone remove the passports?

    If SAH was on some kind of mission, e.g. the example I outline, it might have been that he assumed an identity. If he was playing at being a spy for the Iranians, he might not want to be SAH who works at the Satellite company. At some point these operations have a sting and to avoid people showing up at his house they might give him a false ID.
    Another idea is that the passport showed something they didn’t want to be out, like travel to ?? Iran or Israel?

    @ Bleb
    Yes, Zainab’s injuries could have been unavoidable accident or maybe she deliberately got in their way or, kids can have extraordinary decibel levels, maybe she wouldn’t stop screeching and they shut her up without lethal force?

  • intp1

    @Pink
    29 Apr, 2014 – 7:40 am

    Sorry, can you elaborate re. the Dubai question?

    SAH met Iqbal in Dubai is the only Dubai bit I know.

  • Pink

    @Intp1 I think the meeting of the couple in Dubai was all that was found out about the Dubai time BB may be able to add if anything else was found that I missed.
    I can’t see the fake passport idea working with what we found out already ,I do remember much being made of the postman video as an indication all was not as it seems so there was a question mark there.
    The maths for the captcha are getting to complicated for me 🙂

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