The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-19/credit-suisse-charged-by-u-s-with-conspiracy-to-aid-tax-evasion.html
There’s a U.S. crackdown on Swiss bank accounts, FWIW. Those accounts must be under a microscope now.
@Intp1
There are many differing ideas pursued in the course of the forum in the hope of finding a connection between the people involved and possible reasons for their murder, I have not paid attention to a lot of the technical ideas as I would not know one way or the other it’s only recently I have seen a possibility.
The reason the DMC imaging struck me as interesting is because it
I seem to remember reports from the police saying he had taken work with him on the computer that was checked and not considered
sensitive ,then there are his trips out as if he was doing something that didn’t involve the family ,the police said they knew what they were but didn’t release the information I assume if they had been suspicious they would have jumped at the chance to tell us .
Mr Bewick who lived at the house the builders were working on might have had use for Saad services if the forum was correct as to his job and that’s the right John Bewick.
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/john-bewick/24/834/544
http://www.ashdownsi.co.uk/
There was talk of various related things such as fracking ,a possible contaminated site near where SM lived and worked etc I can’t pull up the details I just remember them being things that cropped up all of which might use that technology and would worry residents enough to get surveys done.
I hope I have conveyed enough to show that it might be an idea to follow up I do not know enough to follow it myself.
The way I see Saad was as an inventive type of guy and as far as I can tell he seems to have been a fairly honest sort of person perhaps a little feisty when roused but on the whole people seem to have liked him ,his neighbour’s say he was helpful when they needed it, I don’t get the impression he would have been involved in anything shady ,I could see him being put into an awkward position by information coming into his possession via the death of his father he seems to have been stressed and worried about something ,it’s hard to tell as with the news that accounts were being attacked
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/saad-al-hilli-credit-card-fraud-5169258
and suspicion of Saad that it was his brother, could that have been the cause of his stress ?
The two victims shot dead “al Hilli”-style in the Belgian jewish museum were two high ranked Israeli diplomats (mossad agents) who worked at the Israeli embassy in Berlin as “attachees”.
We always had in mind that the al Hillis – just like Zygier – were secret Israeli agents, too.
The style of that killing is very similar. Shots to head. Two accidental bystanders (museum employees) are killed/shot as well, just like SM.
The names of the two killed jewish diplomats are Emanuel Riva (54) and Miriam Riva (53).
Here is prove that they worked at the israeli embassy in Berlin as diplomats (link in german only but names are names).
http://www.israel-entdecken.de/rundreiseisrael4/diplomatisches-korps-israelische-botschaft-berlin.php
Just a reminder that there is a french documentary on the 6th June
http://www.leblogtvnews.com/2014/05/les-faits-karl-zero-la-tuerie-de-chevaline-le-6-juin-sur-13eme-rue.html
Dans un numéro inédit coproduit par 3ème Oeil Productions et 13ème Rue, Karl Zéro revient sur la tuerie de Chevaline, petite commune de Haute-Savoie dont le quotidien a été bouleversé en 2012 par un quadruple meurtre d’une rare violence. Un document d’une heure à découvrir le vendredi 6 juin à 22h55 sur 13ème Rue.
Aidé par un témoin de la scène de crime, des journalistes ou encore le procureur de la République d’Annecy, Karl Zéro revient sur les faits et mène l’enquête sur la tuerie non-élucidée de Chevaline qui continue de susciter de nombreuses interrogations.
google translate :
In an unprecedented number co-produced by 3rd Eye Productions and 13th Street, Karl Zero returns to the killing of Chevaline, a small town in Haute-Savoie whose lives have been turned upside down in 2012 by a quadruple murder of a rare violence. A one hour discover Friday, June 6 at 22:55 on 13th Street.
Aided by a witness to the crime scene, journalists or the public prosecutor Annecy, Karl Zero returns to the facts and leads the investigation into the killing of non-elucidated Chevaline continues to raise many questions.
Illustration, video capture.
Karl Zero is null. Saad al-Hilli was a “good” mann. Who saw his body nobody. As an expert in satellite analysis, he got “exfiltrated” from Upper-Savoy, ended up in Malaysia, where he boarded the “fateful” MH370. Hence the misleading “pings” that a Yellow Submarine, Yellow Submarine recorded. Like in Brussels, French fries ain’t always what they seem to be. I would rather look up north, and for the Annecy killings call it quits. Right TV?
@intp1
Link to the fracking chat
bluebird
03 Not Forgetting, Page 60
3 Feb, 2013 – 01:17
Fracking in Massif de Bauges. (gaz de schiste)
Exactly that mountain region where they were killed does not only provide 180 km of natural caves but it is also planned to be a paradise for shale gas fracking.
There are opposing local groups of environment protectors. Some of them are saying that they are militant. The last thing they want is destroying the natur of the mountains near Doussard and Chevaline by fracking.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing
http://www.bioaddict.fr/flashinfos/france-le-parc-naturel-regional-du-massif-des-bauges-s-oppose-au-gaz-de-schiste-f3113.html
http://fr.wiser.org/event/view/99807973f6c73e8cba7bd0a3bd7279ae
Le PNR du Massif des Bauges s’oppose à l’exploration des gaz de schisteLe Parc naturel régional du Massif des Bauges a été créé le 7 décembre 1995. Il regroupe 65 communes dont 46 en Savoie et 19 en Haute-Savoie, plus 6 villes portes. Au total, le parc compte 60 000 habitants pour une superficie de 90 000 hectares. Le Parc naturel régional du Massif des Bauges a été créé le 7 décembre 1995. Il regroupe 65 communes dont 46 en Savoie et 19 en Haute-Savoie, plus 6 villes portes. Au total, le parc compte 60 000 habitants pour une superficie de 90 000 hectares.Pourtant, le territoire du Parc naturel régional du Massif des Bauges est concerné par deux demandes de permis de recherche d’hydrocarbures dits « Lyon Annecy » et « Gex Sud ».Prenant acte de ses deux demandes, le Bureau du Parc a souhaité avoir l’information la plus complète les concernant : objet des permis, nature des formations géologiques recherchées, techniques potentielles d’exploitation d’hydrocarbures et impacts potentiels qui pourraient découler d’autorisations éventuelles de recherche d’hydrocarbures.
Going slightly off-topic for a moment.
Not forgetting the al-Hillis, consider the methods used to dispose of unwanted pesticides. Warning: it involves gypsum.
http://siscop.inecc.gob.mx/descargas/proyectos/final_report_en_teresita_romero.pdf?projID=2451
The reason for using gypsum is explained on page 31.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1124525/posts
“But another reason for the media silence may stem from the seemingly undramatic nature of the “finds” Hanson and others have described. The materials that constitute Saddam’s chemical-weapons “stockpiles” look an awful lot like pesticides, which they indeed resemble. “Pesticides are the key elements in the chemical-agent arena,” Hanson says. “In fact, the general pesticide chemical formula (organophosphate) is the ‘grandfather’ of modern-day nerve agents.”
“The United Nations was fully aware that Saddam had established his chemical-weapons plants under the guise of a permitted civilian chemical-industry infrastructure. Plants inspected in the early 1990s as CW production facilities had been set up to appear as if they were producing pesticides – or in the case of a giant plant near Fallujah, chlorine, which is used to produce mustard gas.”
Conclusion: Don’t live in a brick house in Iraq?
Mission accomplished.
This thread is dead, Tv. “We’re always open”.
What’s your next step? [what a silly comment]
It’s a lot of fun , you guys. More Qs than As obviously, but it’s the name of the game.
Needless to say, the one thing you forget are the Al-Hillis. But they’re here to stay.
Salt I don’t think its dead people are focusing on the missing aircraft, with the new doco coming up perhaps we will get a few back in .
More similaritus to the professional style jewish museum killings:
Suspect Mehdi Nemmouche and his gang brother Abdelkadir Hassani drove a white peugeot 205
Nemmouche’s and Hassani’s criminal history, including vodka, girls and a kalashnikov that obviously existed in 2011 already.
http://www.nordeclair.fr/Locales/Tourcoing/2009/05/27/trois-gars-de-la-bourgogne.shtml
http://www.nordeclair.fr/Locales/Roubaix/2011/09/22/rupture-violente-lors-d-un-anniversaire.shtml
Nemmouche was likely recruted/forced by the Algerian security service in 2009 while he was in prison in southern france.
He was afraid of leaving the prison while he had a unique excuse for not leaving the prison:
quote from 2009:
Nemmouche, defended by Soulifa Badawi, adopts an original attitude: he is imprisoned in the south of France and refused to be taken from his cell because he is afraid of flying.
Just when you were about to give up, altogether, one of Bluebird’s links shared this link from today’s LeDauphine:
Slaughter of Chevaline a man interviewed by investigators found dead in Ugine
Tuesday in Ugine Savoie, gendarmes conducted extensive investigations at the home of a resident of the town, died a violent death.
The individual was found dead at his home, while suggesting a suicide. Weapons have been recovered by the police. The home has been examined by experts from the cell criminal investigations gendarmerie group of Savoy.
According to our information, the victim, a former legionnaire, was heard by the police of the Research Section of Chambéry there is more than one year, as part of the investigation into the killing of Chevaline that s is held September 5, 2012 in Haute-Savoie, about twenty kilometers from Ugine. Interviewed as part of investigations into the environment of the victims, the man would not have been considered at the time, as a direct suspect and no charges had been held against him.
His death today, however intrigue investigators in charge of the “case Chevaline” and further investigations will be undertaken to ensure that nothing was overlooked at the time. The survey should initially be assigned to the brigade Research Albertville, which will, inter alia confirm the hypothesis of suicide and check that the death was not related to his “old” hearing.
[link contains map and original french]
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2014/06/03/tuerie-de-chevaline-un-homme-entendu-par-les-enqueteurs-retrouve-mort-a-ugine
Thanks Lobelia I just spotted it as well https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Chevaline&src=hash
http://www.lemessager.fr/Actualite/Fil_Infos_regionales/2014/06/03/article_tuerie_de_chevaline_un_homme_entendu_dan.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#.U44OsiFq5qw.twitter
This Tuesday, June 3, a man in his fifties was found dead at his home in Ugine Savoie.
He was heard in April 2013 as part of the case of the killing of Chevaline. Capita Ugine and knowing the family cyclist Sylvain Mollier, killed September 5, 2012 along with the Al-Hilli family Chevaline in Haute-Savoie, he was questioned by investigators for less than two hours at his home. “He had not been placed in custody,” the prosecutor Annecy, Eric Maillaud.
According to the preliminary findings of the gendarmes, the man might have committed suicide. At his home, investigators found a long letter explaining his actions. Inside this former soldier recalls his hearing in the case of the killing. “He explained that he was very upset after his interrogation in April 2013. According to this letter, it would be one of the reasons for his action.” Nevertheless, the prosecutor Annecy, it is still too early to make a connection between “this human tragedy” and the tragic events of September 5, 2012. Currently, many questions loom over this discovery. “It raises a lot of questions. Why would it passed the act over a year after being heard and how this man, a former soldier, who has not even been placed in custody, could he be disturbed at this point? ”
The investigation was assigned to the prosecution of Albertville load for him to establish a possible correlation between the death and the killing of Chevaline. Finally, an autopsy should be performed on weekends to determine that it is a suicide.
The Messenger
@Bluebird
GO TO WORK !
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/four-killed-in-attack-on-british-car-in-french-alps-beauty-spot-8107092.html
Recalling this story, which mentioned bones found in the woods in June of 2012. Maybe there is more to this recent development?
http://www.lematin.ch/faits-divers/Un-suicide-lie-a-la-tuerie-de-Chevaline/story/31378115
http://english.turkcebilgi.com/chasseur
Airborne infantry, aka special forces, then?
The 13th Parachute Dragoon Regiment caught my eye with this new development:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Parachute_Dragoon_Regiment
“The 13e RDP took part in the Gulf War. This was highlighted when three operators were captured by the Iraqis in late 1990. The 13e RDP was, along with other French units, heavily involved in the Kosovo War and used tactics and technology to force Serbian armour to attempt to engage Kosovo Liberation Army and other Allied forces in the open, which enabled them to be destroyed by Allied bombing, particularly by the United States Air Force and the Royal Air Force. The 13e RDP also contributed to the capture of Momčilo Krajišnik in 2001 by close range recons.”
Remember the mysterious “man from the Balkans” in the campground, and articles like this back in 2012:
http://www.theweek.co.uk/crime/annecy-shootings/48966/gun-used-al-hilli-serbian-mafias-signature-weapon
Would someone please post the relevant parachute regiment information if it becomes available? This one does black ops:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando_Parachute_Group
The age of this man, the ages of the victims, and the age of the local police officer Eric Devouoassoux are all close.
I recall back at the beginning the son of Sylvain Mollier on social networking with a friend of the family who was a former military man. Is this the person in question?
Two months before the al-Hilli incident, there was this:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrzpap_un-homme-tente-de-se-suicider-en-pleine-ville-ugine_news
I realize that the age of this individual doesn’t match the age of the man with a connection to the al-Hili case who allegedly committed suicide. The pompiers were involved.
Note the time of day of the incident above, and the presence of a camper. Quartier des fontaines? Video shows the Banque Populaire des alpes in the background.
Bluebird, have you noticed that the age of the man in the video with the police also matches the age group of the social networking “friends”? That forum “Fecit” that you discovered shut down in 2013.
At 1:20 onward in the video, the sign on the building “Les Vins…” has been reversed. It’s a mirror image. At 0:28, the sign was not in reverse. Nothing in Ugine and area is as it appears!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrzpap_un-homme-tente-de-se-suicider-en-pleine-ville-ugine_news
For Bluebird, returning to an early diversion with Fessenheim connections.
http://reseau.journaldunet.com/membre/2471673/6855890155/wenceslas_ringard/
Sorry to return to past distractions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fessenheim_Nuclear_Power_Plant
“On September 5, 2012, Eight employees working on the nuclear site Fessenheim in Alsace, were victims of an incident[citation needed]. The cause of their injuries was a release of hydrogen peroxide vapor, “following the injection of hydrogen peroxide in a tank,” said Europe 1 prefecture of Haut-Rhin.”
http://www.climatesceptics.org/europe/france/fessenheim/two-injured-by-steam-blast-at-fessenheim-nuclear-plant
Sylvain Mollier noted here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva_NC
Hello there people. Pleased to see you are still at it and been working on organising the various theories. I just popped in as I came across a Google reference and wondered what your take would be on Tuesday’s suicide. I notice several have made interesting observations above so for what it’s worth will add a few of my own.
First it shows our friend the Public Prosecutor is still in post and still the spokesperson for matters Chevaline. This tells me, despite the charade of an investigation and the plethora of what can only be described as lies, not to mention the failure to provide any answers to perhaps the most pressing issue of the presence of the forestry guys just when the murders were happening (both immediately before and after) he is still retained. In any other circumstance such a performance would have required a diplomatic “early retirement” or reassignment. The fact that this hasn’t happened can only mean that he has political backing and given the high profile of the case, this must go right to the very top. It confirms this is no ordinary crime and that Maillaud’s role as the “front guy” is protected on a mutual basis.
Second, as I have suggested many times, both the information given out and the information retained are indicators of what is going on, even if imprecise in the extreme. Mr Mailaud has been a stickler for secrecy, except when it suited him to do otherwise. In this recent case note what he is prepared to say and what he isn’t. The name of the deceased has not, as yet at any rate been released in sharp contrast to M. Eric Devouassoux, the former policeman, either when he was interviewed over a year ago or now. The question arises why was one treated so differently to the other?
Third on the same tack, despite retaining the name of the dead man (surely untypical of procedure in a case of suicide?) the secrecy obsessed PP nevertheless tells us enough, prior to autopsy notice, that this was most likely suicide, conveniently established by a “six or seven page” written letter, which he has no difficulty summarising despite its highly personal, and therefore we would assume prohibited nature. This can only be regarded with deep suspicion given his track record and another obvious feature, namely why, if he was in possession of such a crucial document and clearly having read it with his forensic legal mind, would he be in any doubt about how many pages there were? “Six or seven pages” is ridiculous, it could only be one or the other, and very reminiscent of the imprecision over the number and destination of the bullets at Chevaline. Eric has clearly learned nothing from that experience.
Fourth, I find the interpretation he puts on the contents of the letter without question, highly dubious. He has no qualms about accepting it at face value and does not even consider the possibility of duress. Here we have it is alleged a seasoned and hardened ex-soldier who kills himself for no other reason than that the police interviewed “disturbed” him, because it “made him feel like a suspect”. Really does this sound plausible? OK we know that suicide is a significant factor in PTSD but would not depression be a factor or some reference be made to past military activity? No it is just that police interviewed him. This is simply not believable and with the next point even less so.
Fifth, some news reports, the Daily Mail being one, quote police sources as saying there was evidence of “violent disturbance” yet this appears to trouble M Maillaud not at all. Despite this crucial fact he is able to ignore it and jump immediately to the conclusion this was “suicide”. This appears to be quite typical of his approach to crime scenes. He makes his mind up despite claiming to keep all options open. He refuses to acknowledge or explain contra-indications to his chosen interpretations. He comes out with inane observations of the blindingly obvious as he did at Chevaline (“this was a violent person who has probably killed before”) whilst promoting an explanation before the scientific results are in. This is so contrary to sound practise for either police or legal profession it must point to ulterior factors.
Sixth, there are the coincidences of which Chevaline and associated incidents have been suffused: same village as SM; military background, sharp-shooter, gun collector, Gulf/Serbia connections; age at death same as SAH (50); and finally close to the 52nd anniversary of Eichmann’s execution (31st May – the previous Saturday). These are no more than strange coincidences but interesting ones to add to the many earlier ones. How many are needed before they can be ignored no longer?
Finally we are all aware of a catalogue of murders dressed up as suicide. It can never be excluded as a possibility until all the forensic and other matters are taken into account. Given the extraordinary nature of the events to which this latest death is connected, the inordinate haste with which Maillaud jumps to a non-criminal explanation, can only be regarded as further reason to doubt his role and opinion.
I just came across this using translate it says one of the arrested came from Thyez.
Thyez is a commune in the Haute-Savoie department in the Rhône-Alpes region in south-eastern France
Custody allows investigators to learn that the respondent has hidden some weapons in nature. The dog team “weapons / ammunition” ICG 74 and the mountain of the company BONNEVILLE group incurred. They locate on steep terrain in the forest, a weapons cache in a cave.
http://www.gendarmerie.interieur.gouv.fr/index.php/eng/Sites/Gendarmerie/Actualites/2013/Fevrier/Rhone-Alpes-trafic-d-armes-demantele
photo of the bike here and lots of comments :
http://mobile.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/tuerie-des-alpes-les-pistes-148452
They are about to remove the car in the photo. Its hard to believe that the bike would still be resting there by that time?
But then nothing surprizes me about the French – these clowns in particular.
The article seems to speculate that the bike was descending when shot at.
Can anyone tell which way the bike is pointing?
If I am not mistaken Intp1
8 Jun, 2014 – 12:21 pm it is possible if you blow the image right up, that the frame can be identified which puts the bike facing DOWN hill. Even the dumbest investigators, and here we are dealing with Frances best, would not have moved critical evidence without at least enveloping it securely. Why even if they did move it would they place it so far away? The only plausible explanation is not only that SM placed it there, clearly at that point not under fire, but he turned it around, ready to return down hill. The police and Maillaud MUST have known this from the beginning, plus the location of the body of SM, yet he allowed/originated the false location of SM and bike to the front right of the BMW. Also, knowing the location of the shells, he perpetuated an obviously false story of the attack coming from the top, not to mention the obviously false story of the reversing BMW. It poses the questions why would he want to promote these lies and why would SM want to get off his bike where he did rather than at the bottom? Could it be EM was desperate to rule out the possibility of SM meeting someone other than SAH at the TOP of the layby and then moving down to the Al Hilli’s car, and that the shooter (at least one of them) came UP the hill rather than down? I suppose we shouldn’t over-look the possibility that SM first rode past the Al Hilli’s to appear disinterested until he was sure the “coast was clear”. We have to factor in the point that SM, having it is claimed, overtaken WBM on the way up, knew that WBM would be arriving any moment. Of course the distribution of the shells would, if we had not cleared the enigmatic Brett Martin from blame, increase the chances that he was the shooter! Also we should never forget that even EM admitted another “OAP cyclist” was on scene, who has never been identified. There is of course no guarantee that this additional anonymous person was either OAP or cyclist, particularly for the above reasons we cannot trust anything that EM says. Finally “suicides” connected to this sort of event is much more likely to prevent a leak of information than injured feelings, particularly in a hardened paratrooper.