The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
How do you know that his accoundant do not have any other companies? – to cicle money in and out to/from?
@Bluebird
let’s rather do our own research and our own approval and our own logic.
That’s fine, but this *is* my own logic.
Is it likely an experienced journalist for the London times would make such a schoolboy error, and type Iraq when they mean Iran? No.
Are the keys near each other on the keyboard? Not at all.
Is it likely the copy-editor would miss it? No.
Is it likely the sub-editor would miss it? No.
Is it likely The Australian would change *just one letter* when they copy/pasted the entire article? No.
Ergo, I believe it is unlikely to be a typographical mistake.
Yes, newspapers can and do make mistakes. And yes, the family tree is baffling (I cannot follow it so don’t blame the papers one iota.)
BUT
I still think it is very unlikely to be a typographic mistake.
@Kenneth
With all due respect, have you actually LOOKED at the accounts?
From what you are saying it sounds as if you have not.
As I have written in a previous post, there is not a lot of money going into or out of the company FULL STOP, other than to buy the house in France.
So there cannot be any complex money circle as you are suggesting.
As regards their accountants and their “interesting” other clients, I posted a lot of gory details about them here last night. Where have you been?
@Straw
“business” = things
(“choses” in French)
@Peter
Thanks for the link – very interesting. (And yes, dead pig alert!)
So the car windows wouldn’t slow 9mm paras down significantly, nor deform them…
I can’t find anything about exit wounds though, particularly pictures. Have you seen any? I’m wondering if anyone’s posted any youtube clips of eg shooting a watermelon with a 9mm… would that behave roughly the same as a head, do you think, with clean entry/exit wounds and not a lot of splatter?
I will say like Margarat Thatcher: The money lies best in the pockets of the people who have earned them! An no privy eys shall ferret into something that is no business of theirs!
And which whereabaouts they have no chance of finding out anyway
@ Ferret
I have never been that interested in the gory aspects, but I do own a few books on wound ballistics. Basically, a 9 x 19 Para FMJ bullet fired at close range will cleanly pass through a human skull and leave a wound canal that could have been caused by a power drill. I strongly assume that the same holds true for 7.65 Para. (Ironically, those tiny .22 LR bullets that the Mossad used to use were more likely to be fatal, because they would not exit the skull, instead caroming around inside and pulping the brain).
That’s where this military practice of shooting twice to the head (with military FMJ ammunition) stems from: The first shot is survivable, and unlikely to be instantaneously fatal, meaning that the victim would probably still be twitching and moaning. The kind of hollow-point ammunition used by police and hunters causes vastly greater damage, because the bullet “mushrooms” and thus slows down rapidly, transferring all its kinetic energy onto the object being struck. Such a bullet can make a human skull burst like a coconut if it enters the cranium, as liquids are incompressible and thus transmit the “hydraulic shock” caused by the bullet very effectively. If there is an exit wound at all, it will be fist-sized.
@Ferret
5 Oct, 2012 – 1:02 pm
OK, it´s fully possible that Iqbal told the immigration in Sweden that she was from Iran, when seeking asylum(?)in Sweden. And that she have a passport with Iran stated as her birthplace.
Even then, it´s not at all any confirmation of her actual birthplace. During the last decades, it´s been possible to provide any kind of false background to the immigration authorities in Sweden, without being checked up. You just choose what country that gives the best chance to get asylum, and you get your asylum. Maybe Iran was a better choice than Iraq, or whereever she was born, at the time she arrived.
If it´s correct ( as I belive ) that Suhaila was working 1990 as a headnurse east of Jerusalam with disabled kids ( like her son is ), for a nursing home led by Swedish management, the family might as well come from any part in the Middle East.
In summary, I would not be sure of Iqbals orgin without any more reference than the article in The Australian/The Times. Even it´s very reliable newspaper.
@Kenneth
You do like your quotes, don’t you Kenneth: Margaret Thatcher, Adolf Hitler, Hermann Goering… quite a menagerie…
An no privy eys shall ferret into something that is no business of theirs!
That’s precisely why we have Companies House, Kenneth, so limited companies are compelled to file their accounts, and members of the public can examine them at their leisure.
I’m still not sure why you think you have ANY idea what was going on in Silver Fern’s accounts, given that you’ve not even bothered to read them.
:rolleyes:
@Peter
OK, thanks. Bear in mind of course that the Mossad Kidon teams use 7.65mm Berettas as standard issue. (Browning, not parabellum.)
Are there any videos on youtube of 9mm para silenced weapons?
@Thomas
Well yes, anything is “possible” – she may have been from the moon. But why is it so impossible to believe she might really be from Iran? Surely the onus is on you to provide some evidence, rather than the other way around?
Saad al-Hilli…. Yesterday his daughter Zainab, 7, began describing the attack in which her mother Iqbal, 47, grandmother Suhaila al-Allaf, 74, and ….. Mrs Hilli was born in Iran but grew up in Sweden. She met her husband in Dubai a decade ago. (The Australian 10 Sept. 2012)
Mrs Hilli was born in Iran but grew up in Sweden. She met her husband in Dubai a decade ago. Her sister Fadwa al-Saffat, a pharmacist who recently finished a PhD at the University of Reading, is believed to be at Zainab’s bedside. (The Times September 11, 2012)
neighbour Mr Aicolina said: ‘He met his wife in Dubai. He went there on holiday and he met her there. It was a great love affair. She was Iraqi by origin but her parents live in Sweden. She was practising dentistry in the Middle East and they met by chance I think. (Daily Mail 6 September 2012)
Suhaila al-Allaf, her mother; was she the one there to authenticate contact from Iran underground. Otherwise why take an old lady there? Israel, is seeking to disclocate Iran’s nuclear development, would sponsor infiltration of impure materials, fake info or viruses. ?failed infiltration. ?blatant lesson to anyone tempted this way
@Oliphant
Yes, it’s possible, but it’s not Iran’s MO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHXjO8wHsA
@Ferret
5 Oct, 2012 – 2:18 pm
This “she may have been from the moon”-argumentation, is this common here?
I have not excluded Iran as an orgin, when I say “the family might as well come from any part in the Middle East”.
There was also a larger group of Iranians at the dentist education in Sweden during 1985-1995. Some where from Iran, while other where from “Iran”. It was easy to show some fake papers from pre-educations in Iran, and pass to qualify.
I have several Swedish friends who attended the education during that period. They also told me about a strong tension in the group, as some had connections to the Iranian regime and was in Sweden under false flag as refugees.
I have no problem at all if Iqbal is from Iran, but I´m not sure.
@Olifant
Do you have a link for the Times article?
Re the neighbour, Mr Aicolina, who said: “… she was Iraqi by origin but her parents live in Sweden.”
Saying that she was “Iraqi by origin” might be accounted for by the fact that Iqbal spent time there (eg getting qualified in Baghdad) before moving to Sweden. And possibly by the fact that the Al Hilli’s had only lived in Oaken Lane for what, three years, according to the postman?
Is it possible this could be the source of the French reports saying she was Iraqi?
I am sick and tired of seing that yellow badge of Ferret’s and seing how he is constantly on. I think he should take a break and see if we can’t find out of something on our own.
@Thomas
This “she may have been from the moon”-argumentation, is this common here?
I’m sorry, but I get a bit fed up when people repeatedly make suggestions which have no basis in reality, and which run counter to the facts at hand, namely a report in a reputable paper.
Yes, she *could* have been from anywhere, but if you want to claim the article is wrong, then you’d better show some evidence, is all I’m saying.
Yes, newspapers are not reliable, but they are mostly all we have to go on for this whole story. Are you saying we should treat everything as a load of hogwash? If so then there isn’t much to talk about really.
I have not excluded Iran as an orgin, when I say “the family might as well come from any part in the Middle East”.
Well, I’m not trying to convince *you* of anything, so be my guest.
There was also a larger group of Iranians at the dentist education in Sweden during 1985-1995. Some where from Iran, while other where from “Iran”. It was easy to show some fake papers from pre-educations in Iran, and pass to qualify.
I have several Swedish friends who attended the education during that period. They also told me about a strong tension in the group, as some had connections to the Iranian regime and was in Sweden under false flag as refugees.
OK, now that is some *evidence*, albeit anecdotal. So you’re saying she could have claimed to be of Iranian origin while in Sweden, in order to fake her dental qualification, yes?
If so, the problem with that theory is that there is a family friend who says he went to dental school with Iqbal in Baghdad. That would tend to indicate (unless he’s lying, and why should he) that she qualified in Baghdad, admittedly this is a jump from what we actually know but why not.
I have no problem at all if Iqbal is from Iran, but I´m not sure.
That’s fine with me.
Ferret should definately take a break! this is NO way of answering Thomas!
I am sick and tired of seing that yellow badge of Ferret’s and seing how he is constantly on. I think he should take a break and see if we can’t find out of something on our own.
I think you mean “make up” on your own, eh Kenneth?
😉
Downloaded any good accounts lately?
Ferret should definately take a break! this is NO way of answering Thomas!
Ooooo err…. get him etc.
Well, smart alec…. how would YOU answer Thomas?
Be my guest, the floor is yours…
You should change that yellow badge of yours as I am sick an tired of looking at it! It’s ridicoulous to have this ancient Atomic sign, and those eyes peering behind it. Are those your eyes? Find some other badge for a change
Since no one seems interested in my suggestion, I shall just offer a possible lead.
Who is this 23-year-old Jew from NYC who just killed sous chef Armando Afed over a dispute on Tuesday at Eilat’s Leonardo Club which the police refuse to describe, along with the guy’s actual identity.
He sounds like some hired gun, thanks to his being part of the Oranium Program which apparently recruits agents and sayonim for the Mossad.
Could they have gotten into a dispute about the Annecy massacre, and the 23-year-old went berserk, killing Afed, and in turn being killed himself? Could he have been away from the Eilat project just a month ago?
If this is the case, it looks like the Anglo-French police investigating the killing will be looking forever for its solution.
Please show that there is nothing to this possible lead when it comes to the al-Hilli massacre.
Here is a link from THP about these killings:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/05/israel-tourist-shooting_n_1941668.html
Yes, Kenneth, they are my eyes… and they are staring right at you… they are hypnotising you… they are following you everywhere you go… I am in your thoughts…. wherever you are…
Come on, really?
The atomic sign bothers you? And the eyes? What is with that?
Seriously dude, go to Companies House, pay your money and download the Silver Fern accounts. Then we can talk. And please stop with the abuse, OK? We’re just debating points of view here.
@Kenneth Sorensen
5 Oct, 2012 – 3:14 pm
It´s no problem for me, the way Ferret answers. It´s not so cool, but it´s ok.
Why would the press all have said she was from Iran at the beginning if she was from somewhere else?
I can understand why they arent saying that now. But what they say now is 100 times less reliable than from initial reports unless you believe the police and press are doing a wonderful investigation.
Thanks for that, Thomas, I’m glad it was OK with you.
I must admit, that was *not* my most gracious answer ever, though I’m sure it’s a long way from my worst!!!
🙂
Anyways… Kenneth will now get his wish, for I will take a break.
😀
Remember when the Gareth Williams murder got really messy – i. e., when his colleague at GCHQ, and associate in leaking Afghan Log to Wikileaks Gudrun Loftus was also killed, and it prompted that fatal argument between Professor Steve Rawlings and St. John’s College’s Dr. Dewinter Sivia after a dinner at its Great Hall apparently about her fate in which Rawlings were murdered.
Plots almost invariably result in surprises of the messiest sort, usually additional murders, as things don’t go just as expected.
… in a few minutes…
Ha! Bet you thought I was gone, hadn’t you!!
😀
Trowbridge, re that shooting, I think the guy just went postal. He’d had a disagreement with the chef some time past, and was going to leave that voluntary employment. He lost it, got mad, and shot the chef.
But did you see this, linked from that page?
Israel using young hot women as its most effective spies
http://www.yourjewishnews.com/Pages/22820.aspx
OK, I’m off now.
Really.