The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Oops no, its still there.
Hi all. Clark’s mentioned it on another thread, but just be aware that not everyone can see this site at the moment – DNS problems with the host. It’s been fixed already, but these updates take a while to trickle through.
The ‘hosts file’ hack is a great workaround, but remember to delete it in a day or so, when the DNS sorts itself out.
Pink: yes, the host is in the Netherlands. Craig’s London-based server was pulled a few years back for alleged libel, so he moved it to a country better with better free-speech protection. Sadly that doesn’t protect us from technical cock-ups!
@Straw
Ferret was wondering who the Ashbys were in the complex business arrangements inside 55 Rutland Gate. (Their company was Squadron Ltd)
I still don’t see why a man in Scunthorpe is signing off the Silver Fern accounts along with BM. (pdf which I can’t link to at the mo)
There is something very very strange relating to Silver Fern and its SW7 location, as Ferret suspects.
It would be good to know when the cottage in the Impasse in Doussard was bought.
And what about the latest “release” relating to photos:
It has emerged that colour photographs showing the Al-Hillis minutes before the attack have been found by detectives inside the family’s BMW.
All were taken in front of a picturesque house covered in flowers outside Doussard, a town close to the village of Chevaline…..
According to others who have seen the photographs, dates and times are shown, meaning they can be placed in a series of events which ended up with the quadruple murder.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213477/Alps-shooting-Judges-seize-sizeable-sum-cash-Swiss-bank-account-linked-British-family-gunned-down.html
Ah, “photos”, “people” “has emerged” “have been found” (not “were found”)…. Photos straight back from the chemist, (not), not images on a memory card, clearly. Be highly suspicious.
The latest revelations about banking seem to be moving the investigation away from BM and the amazing 3-way coincidence (allegedly) in the car park. His disappearance from view is highly significant after his solitary BBC “show”
Why is everything associated with this case so complicated? I have just looked at the web design company for Brett’s French house. Mays web design was only incorporated in April 2012, so no portfolio to speak of. Neither of the directors has a background in web design and one, Andrew May (33) has 87 directorships all set up in the last 2 years. He also resigned on September 10th, curiouser and curiouser!
Thanks for the update Jon ,the post was actually copied from the kind person on DI who gave advice on how to connect I hope a few others will find their way back in soon and debate can resume .:)
@Norfolkeagle
Go back to the previous long thread to catch up on Mays, their clients, work locations, etc.
Felix, my guess is that the photos were ‘found’ on those two phones which were in the car.
@Katie
then why not say so?? (I mean the MSM) Perhaps found under women’s skirts/bags of luggage. And why wait a month for it to “emerge”. How do things “emerge” generally?
[PDF]
Silver Fern (Sussex) Limited – Duedil
https://www.duedil.com/company/…/silver-fern-sussex…/latest?key…
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – Quick View
15 Sep 2012 – https://www.duedil.com/company/05708870/silver-fern-sussex-limited. Silver Fern (Sussex) Limited. Private limited with Share Capital …
notice the date this “emerged”.
Similarly here
Silver Fern Sussex – Mays Web Design
http://www.mayswebdesign.co.uk/portfolio/silver-fern-sussex.html
14 Sep 2012 – Mays Web Design … SEO Web Design … Pay for your website monthly from as little as £30 and a deposit of £99. im … Silver Fern Sussex …
Are people really having problems contributing? I haven’t noticed a thing here in NFSB land. Looking forward to seeing the regular contributors again, information and disinformation specialists alike.
Ah, have to retract that last statement..
I’m here and lurking.
If they’re having a “helpline” ..still can’t believe they forgot to get it set up.. then I wonder if they’re releasing these photos to the press.
It’s a bit late, to put it mildly. I don;t believe they’ve just found these photos. They’re just making snails seem speedy.
@Dopey
So am I – periodically I emerge from the NFSB to check the MSM
http://www.english.rfi.fr/europe/20121006-telephone-glitch-delays-hotline-french-alps-shooting-witnesses
Convenient glitch…. what a load of cobblers.
Police found at least 25 cartridges at the scene [they still haven’t counted them exactly – need more time?]
“Even if it is just a matter of allowing us to establish the exact movements of the family, it could help.”
[Like Crossing the channel/ Swiss border, allegedly, one to two months post hoc]
Oh, bang on cue…
{http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213982/Did-Iran-spy-French-Alps-murder-victims-satellite-firm.html?ITO=1490}
The Mail on Sunday has established that part of [Saad’s] role was with [SSTL’s] renowned digital imaging enterprise, based close to its headquarters.**
I see.
Security sources say [= fact emerged….] Surrey Satellite Technology had ‘been of interest’ to MI5 for ten years, with the agency conducting surveillance on British-based individuals who made contact with the firm.
No doubt this is why Sir Joe French, The former head of the Defence Intelligence Staff (DIS) and member of the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) joined the SSTL board
http://www.sstl.co.uk/about-sstl/management—ownership
Not an MI5 – MI6 turf war??
** as reported by the Mail 9 Sept , ..in December Mr Al-Hilli visited a sub-division of SSTL called DMC International Imaging, which has recently signed a contract with the Chinese..
“Based close”…actually in the same building, Tycho House???
@Ferret
Changes in Mays Web Design pages…heavy emphasis now on Guildford.
convenient for SSTL & subsids…
{http://www.mayswebdesign.co.uk/guildford-web-design.html}
Compare:
{http://www.jdmsurreyltd.co.uk/contact-us.html}(Silver Fern style, Mays)
{http://www.jdmbrickworkltd.co.uk/About-Us.html} 14 Ferny Road, Byfleet KT14 7AL Vistaprint website
House sold 2007, 205,000GBP, company JDM Brickwork Ltd 05261221 (???) founded 2004. Dir David Christopher O’Connell.
{https://www.duedil.com/company/05261221/jdm-surrey-ltd}
2 name changes of company in last month!
Where are the other two Guildford projects (Jan & March 2012) on the Mays website? There is no apparent trace.
Coming soon – the Crawley office, tel 01293 127837 – is this a genuine phone no, starting with “1”??
….or the Worthing office, 01903 331965
SSTL video here. Reverential
{http://www.surrey.ac.uk/ssc/news/stories/ssc_and_ee/89065_space_industry_pioneer_professor_sir_martin_sweeting_presented_with_prestigious_international_award.htm}
12 Sept 2012
Also at YouTube
{http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjXODix7_ig} No mention of the Al-Hilli episode.
It’s like the Marie Celeste in here. Why’s the fix taking so long?
It was a very interesting link you gave Felix:
{http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213982/Did-Iran-spy-French-Alps-murder-victims-satellite-firm.html?ITO=1490
It shows that if Israel is not included directly (i.e. they masterminded the killings), then it certainly is indirectly. If Israel did not exist, Iranians wouldn’t be interested in any high resolution pics of…Palestine, as it were.
Many people say, is this Israel or is it Iran who’s behind it. My point it that it is Israel either way, and only by closing Israel down (following a referendum amon the people living between the River Jordan and the coast about how they wish that stretch of land to be governed)can the world get its hard earned peace. It is simply to risky for the world — security- and moneywise — to let this the worlds last colony with and habitated area the size of Delaware plus the adjacent Cecil County in Maryland govern itself. International forces in the transition period shall see to that Israelis do not destroy infrastructure — as they have a habit of doing — because this infrastructure shall serve as (partial) compensation to the Palestinian for more than tree score years of suffering and hardship.
Hi Dopey and all
My guess is the DNS issue may not be fixed until after the weekend. A registration expired and getting it back online (I think because it is an .eu domain) appears not to be as trivial as it should be. It’s frustrating, but the host has been very generous to us, so I’m not going to complain.
Instead I am going to get outside on my bicycle. A temporary release from mod duties, woop! See you all on the morrow.
Thanks Jon. Enjoy your bike ride.
Heh, nearly gone on that ride. However I just spent a bit of time on an old thread, so I can respond to Kenneth’s contribution above.
@Kenneth:
Closing Israel down is politically impossible, I think, and undesirable too. The shadow of the Holocaust means that we should defend Jewish people against age-old anti-semitisms that have persisted for centuries, and it would be quite wrong to see lines of Jewish people marching to a new promised land, if they were compelled by force. Whilst I’ve speculated in the past about encouraging Israelis to leave Israel for a hypothetical new territory, I don’t think even large financial inducements would do it, and it’s the only way I can think of to do it without resorting to force. In any case, the US position would not allow this, and is unlikely to change – in my view, we need to ponder solutions that are within the realms of possibility.
I thought you might be interested in a meandering and very interesting dialogue, where I challenged two posters (Passerby, Fedup) on their counterproductive anti-Israel racism. I didn’t get the answers I wanted – there was a stubborn refusal to engage – but the suggested solutions to Middle East peace were excellent. Some of the following links are mine, some are from others – if you have time, start at the first one and read through ~500 comments to the end of the thread.
I mention this old discussion, as I think the way we approach the thorny problem of Israeli aggression in the region (and Mossad’s deplorable violence abroad) needs to be solved by examining how peace and security can be achieved for the Israeli people as well as the Palestinians. Similarly, I was striving to show anti-Israel commenters that there are a lot of good Jewish people in Israel who are opposed to the occupation, and the violence of their state. The links below were mainly written in this spirit.
On defending Jewish people in favour of justice, and possible solutions for ME peace:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/08/on-being-angry-and-dangerous/comment-page-3/#comment-353144
On moving Israel:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/08/on-being-angry-and-dangerous/comment-page-3/#comment-353192
Asking whether people would drop antisemitic views if it might bring about ME peace:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/08/on-being-angry-and-dangerous/comment-page-4/#comment-353235
Good contribution here:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/08/on-being-angry-and-dangerous/comment-page-5/#comment-353848
Food for thought, hopefully!
Jon said:
First of all . The word in English is holocaust with a small h.
I have year long experience in debating these matters, and I always say straight out what should be done. I travelled to Israel and always said straight up in their face that this land belonged to the Palestinians, and that a great wrong had happened, which should be corrected for the sake of world peace.
When I occasionally debate these things on New York forums, people there always appreciate that I am so blunt and speak right out what should be done; they are used to people packing it away and who don’t say what they really think.
— I find it very effective when debating, to say to Israelis that they are unwanted in the company of civilised people and that their country should be closed down. Very few people like to hear that their country should be closed down, – this is a psychological thing that I employ here.
I know that Americans often say that they have “a moral duty” to defend Israel beacuse of the holocaust. But this is quite wrong [in as much as concepts of ‘morals’ exists in relations between states – and what about the ømoral’ involved when 750.000 Palestinians got expelled in 1948], and has let to a lot of bad consequences for The United States. I only have to point to the oilcrisis in 1973-74 and the 11th of September 2001, neither of which would ghave happened without Israel. I could also point to the suicide bombs against the US Marine barracks in Beirut on 23 October 1983, when 241 marrines died. They were there in order to intervene between Israeli and Palestinians – and it wouldn’t have happened without Israel.
Hi Kenneth, thanks.
On H/holocaust, I appreciate the differences – the Jewish holocaust is not more important than other genocides in history, and I agree. I mildly tend towards the initial cap, since that helps indicate which holocaust I am referring to. But I don’t see this as too important (I will use a lower cap in the rest of this piece).
Certainly I agree that reflexive support for Israel in the US is acting quite a lot against US interests. Someone recently posted on this site a link to an article about an alleged paper circulating around US national security authorities, discussing whether automatic support for Israel still provides a political net gain. I don’t know much about paper, but if it’s not a hoax then it’s remarkable it’s being talked about at all.
But it isn’t just because of the Jewish holocaust that the US takes the view that it does. In fact if it were just because of that, the US would have dropped Israel like a stone years ago. I content that support for Israel – which without US support is untenable as a secure state – is predicated on projecting US imperial power into the region. The holocaust provides a base of support amongst zionists and Israel-firsters in both countries, but the US – insofar as it is acting for power and wealth – isn’t interested in questions of religion or nationalism.
I agree that the creation of Israel – and what it has done to the Palestinian people – has been a disaster. If you read the links I provided, you’ll see a pretty full expansion of that view, and especially that I call myself a Palestine supporter notwithstanding.
One of my main contentions on that thread, which I think is useful to reiterate here, is that closing Israel down is politically impossible, and so if people seeking peace in the Middle East were to make this their goal, they would at best be wasting their time and energy. At worst, they would alienate the moderate core of Israelis (and other people around the world) who want peace without preconditions for both sides.
Out of interest, when you say “closing Israel down”, do you mean that Israel as a state should move? At the time of its creation, I understand areas in Latin America and Africa were considered. Would that be viable in the context of the spiritual significance and historical attachment to Jerusalem? (My disparagement for all organised religion is well on record here, but we need to recognise the facts as they are on the ground).
Or, do you think that Jewish people should move to other countries that would have them? I am pretty sure that this would not happen, other than at the barrel of a US gun – and I would not be in favour of it anyway. It would heap injustice upon several injustices; first the Holocaust, then the cruelty to the Palestinian people, then the skirmishes at the borders, and the people dying in Gaza as a result of the blockade, and the racism and hatred going in both directions. If we heap upon this the uprooting of Israelis – including its socialists, peace movements, Occupy groups, IDF watchers, human rights activists – are we not doing a fresh injustice? What new terror might come out of that?
My view is that supporters of Palestine – and I presume that motivates your opposition to Israel’s existence – need to build bridges with moderate/anti-war groups inside Israel. Opposing the powerful capitalist/war propaganda there, where militarism even sells a brand of pastry, is a really good start. Then such groupings – that cross national borders – can discuss what a peace settlement would actually look like.
I doubt that even the most moderate and pro-peace groups in Israel – who may be doing great work documenting the atrocities, say – would agree they should be made homeless. They would contend that a two state solution, with borders at the 67 or 48 lines, would be a good solution. Or, they +might+ be open to discussing a one state solution, with a Reconciliation Commission to give everyone a non-violent platform to say what happened to them.
No it should be closed down, it does not deserve to exist after what it has done. It is an outcast in the international community and we should always say so to Israelis and to their supporters. When we hear their ridiculous groweling sound that make it our for their language in our streets, we should tell them what a ridiculous language they have, and ask them why they don’t go home, because they do not belong where there are civilised people.
And we should use the fact that their country is only the size of Delaware plus the adjacent Cecil County in Maryland [a fact that very few Americans — let alone Europeans — know anything about] against them.
It starts with this referendum I was talking about, and the result is easy to predict: The Arab majority between the River Jordan and the Meditaerannean will insure, that a government based on the wishes on this majority will establish itself. International forces should be deployed to oversee that no Jews resort to terror, and that no porperty is destroyed, because this will serve as compensation for the Palestinians.
Perhaps many Jews will choose to leave in such a situation [Who knows perhaps they feel deep down they have done something that will not be appreciated by the Arab majority] – and so be it, if they must. If they must then they must (its only fair) – there will be no holding them back.
And the United States will undoubtedly be the preferred destination for many – but surely Russia could do with some as well. In my view it is all wrong that more than a million Russians have emigrated to Israel since the beginning of the 90’s. They could have helped building Russia up again. [ It is not correct that there is widespread anti semitism in the world today. When it occasionally happens, it is tightly linked to developments in the occupied territories, like was the case in France around 2003.] They were lured to Israel by Ariel Sharon who wanted to offset the demographic trend of Arab majority. Many of them have never understood what they are doing — unemployed — in a settlement in the WestBank under a relentless sun, and they miss Mother Russia very much.
It is true that Israeli engineers have helped developed Intels Centrino chip for example, and other chips as well. But this work could just as well be done in The United States, when in a short time we are going to close israel down. And so help us God in this just undertaking.
Taken from websleuths
It was reported in the French media yesterday that two wills connected with the estate of Hilli’s father were also found in the family home. Some car numberplates were also reportedly recovered.
Swiss authorities said last week that they had seized an account in a private Geneva bank that “could be linked” to the murders. Maillaud said the account had been opened by Hilli’s father
Maillaud would not comment on reports that it was credited with a little over $1.2 million and that Hilli himself may have deposited money in Geneva, less than two hours’ drive from Annecy, shortly before the murders.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news…-1226490094020
That link above doesn’t work. This one below does
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/slain-father-kept-stun-gun-in-his-home/story-e6frg6so-1226490094020
He had a stun gun at his home too, and police found documents relating to the inheritance at his home AND at the caravan.
@Kenneth:
I am interested to see you say “it”, as if an entity called Israel is evil throughout. But “Israel” is just the name given to an area of land on which people live, and those people are not of monolithic opinion. To blame “it”, you have to blame everyone living there. Whilst I am conscious that you may indeed be blaming all Israelis for the occupation, consider a parallel with the UK. In 2003 there was a demonstration in London against the Iraq war, and over a million people marched. The war went ahead anyway, and over a million Iraqi civilians were killed. Do the marchers deserve blame for the “it” in this case – the United Kingdom? When we say “what the UK has done [to Iraq]”, do we mean to refer to the marchers? And all the good MPs who voted against the war?
We evidently disagree on whether anti-Jewish racism is a problem. In my view, it is a meme that has cursed the Jewish people for centuries, and if it had not appeared in the form of the Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion, the Final Solution might not have happened. The idea that ‘hate begets hate’ may seem trite, but in this regard it is true. Someone else hereabouts mentioned a Russian aphorism, which is “old hatred casts long shadows” – is that not also apposite?
I am not sure what to make of your assertion about “what a ridiculous language they [the Israelis] have” – you have something against Hebrew per se? It is only a language, and is in itself not to blame for existing, or for the actions of the people who speak it! Your anger is justified, but I fear that you are letting it cloud your judgement.
The idea that the hardline settlers in the OPT all really fancy getting back to Russia is just not true. Have you not seen the interviews where they are shouting at television reporters about how the Old Testament gives them, the chosen people, the right to the whole of Palestine? I am sure this sort of material is all over YouTube. Their view is extremist to be sure, and undoubtedly the result of Israeli propaganda mixed with fundamentalist religious interpretation.
I agree that we should not be swayed by such hardliners, but the trouble is that ‘closing down Israel’ is pretty hardline in itself. It is the same unyielding position of the angry settlers, but going in the other direction. I am still hoping my point about there being good people inside of Israel will sway you to a more moderate position – those people, opposed to the occupation as they are, deserve justice also. In what way do you suggest moving these people on would be a good thing?
@Kenneth
“No it should be closed down, it does not deserve to exist after what it has done”
And who else do you think we should incluce in your little judge, jury and…. dare I say more “statement” ???
I guess all “nations” have had their “moments”.
And all “peoples” also.
Like the Norse men of old I guess ?
Hi all, a very interesting news bulletin on BBC a few minutes ago.
Their researcher had tried to find Saad Al Hilli from 1988 to 2010……they failed to find any trace of him.
I find this news quite chilling….they could find no record of where he was working.
James you thought he was in Dubai didn’t you ?