The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
“Why Israel in D Notice?”
Why not. It’s gone the shape of a pear already.
They know it.
If you make it more confusing, then that’s good.
Yes, but then if you wanted to make it more confusing (and France had dunnit) then you’d LET people speculate wildly about Mossad. Mossad would never confirm or deny so it’d go on for weeks, months… so that doesn’t make sense.
I don’t believe BM is involved…but if he is (as in, can you pop along a keep an eye on…etc) the things gone haywire. What can he do !
What are the chances of a nuclear metallurgist and someone with links to nuclear weapons research meeting by random accident in a deserted layby on a deserted cul-de-sac road in the middle of a quiet French forest???
10,000 to 1? 1,000,000 to 1?
@Kathy
Yes or the company wanted to distance themselves for some reason.
Any ideas? I can’t think of any except disloyalty right now… mind you, it is LATE!!! (Nice and quiet though…)
And… they wanted to cremate him but the French forbade it cos they might want to dig him up again for clues. Why? What clues? He’s dead. Bullet wounds to head and back. Presumably autopsy’s been done already, bullets recovered etc…
WTF are they hoping to find?
Fibre tests will already have been done, etc etc…
So… what?
Radiation? Traces of strange elements on his fingers? What what what??? This is not normal…
@Anders
France?
If not, why not?
My first gut feel was Mossad too but now I’m wondering…
France makes more sense…
Ferret..
Agree. Its massive odds. Moreso if you ask “who in that carpark has a degree in aeronautics”
And again, this wasn’t “high level” spying.
…it just got lifted a notch or ten.
Hence why I think “Iran”.
Heres the Siemens link from the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19690774
..and the pic is by GeoEye (that’s a Dubai co !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Imaging_Middle_East
@Jon
Just sent two links..can they be approved please.
On is the BBC on Siemens and Iran.
The other is GeoEye in Dubai ( the picture was taken from)
Regards, James
@ Ferret
I can only think that they are nervous about the allegations that they provided stuff to Iran. Maybe not them but an associated company. Sorry I can’t provide any links right now but maybe I could tomorrow.
other point.
Why Mollier…why France.
Credit to Anders here…. he wrote a post earlier on that I then researched.
Mollier’s Co happens to be smack bang in the middle of the worlds best Nuke power research places on earth.
Saad knows “the Iranian”.
Mollier the expert.
…and a nice place for a chat.
Cheers Jon. They have cleared.
@James
Re that link you sent, interesting bit here
“There was speculation in the West that his disappearance was linked to the American discovery, made public in September, of a second secret Iranian uranium enrichment plant near the holy city of Qom.”
SILEX? Qom? Connection?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/7871255/Iran-puts-forward-evidence-that-nuclear-scientist-was-abducted-by-CIA.html
@Kathy
So Cezus/Areva would be nervous about being seen to be providing nuclear materials to Iran, if their employees went to SM’s funeral? Is that what you mean? Can’t see it just yet… Iran hasn’t been implicated (yet) and maybe will never be…?
@James
So… sounds like you think SAH was responsible for blowing up their sh*t (via satellite signals) so they took him out? Using SM as bait to get him to meet?
@ Ferret
Well, I don’t know but just speculating why would they do that and it’s the only thing I can think of, given the Iranian and possibly nuclear links of the al Hilli family.
Goodnight all – no doubt “see” you tomorrow…
Ferret…
I have no idea who found what, when or where.
But clearly there is “something afoot”.
The key point is, neither side (or all three) can win a war on such a scale.
At this point I can find a clip on Youtube of Charlie Rose trying to interview the Iranian president.
Trying…because Charlie looks an arse.
The thing is…all parties no, it cannot be won.
So Iran tries to refine…and the “other” try to blow it up.
…and that’s where Saad comes in (with Mollier).
The one thing I know about Iran, is they are by no means stupid.
Although Fox News would make you think that.
I think Iran have uncovered this one (and there must be many) and they have sent a message back (or rather a message out).
Only my theory. It can be shot down. But to me, it makes some sense.
Ferret
Goodnight.
@Kathy
Yes, I can see where you’re coming from… there might be another angle other than the obvious… good to think outside the box sometimes!
I really must get to bed, my brain is spinning!!
🙂
@Kempe
tosh – yes; involvement in your book = pulling the trigger (what trigger?). I see non-specific involvement. My take on all available evidence.You didn’t read my post.
@Straw
Point I was making – Brett Martin – keen cyclist – lived, allegedly,in Lathuille, attached to Brossard, where the cycling club was located, and hey presto, the secretary’s husband has the farm at the start of the dead end climb and her husband is talking to the BBC…. Did she know BM? Would be fascinated to know.
Here is that house for let in the same street at BM’s Savoyard house. It appears on the website for Lathuille
http://www.lathuile.fr/gites
No mention of BM’s gite. Was it really for rent?
Edit ! No…is know (you’ll know when you see “no” !)
Tally Ho guys.
..and great input by all methinks.
Thanks James, interesting theory! Will think about it overnight and we can catch up again tomorrow…
I agree – great session tonight.
Kathy sorry didn’t mean to be rude, it’s just that it went quiet for a bit and I thought I was on my own!
🙂
Contradictions from Al-Hilli neighbours.
Some say they had been away for at least three weeks [Lorna Davey,school parent, Evening Standard]. Jack Saltman says (Daily Mail) SAH had told how he was grappling with a ‘personal problem’ on August 29, the day the family left for France. Now, wouldn’t CCTV at ports prove this??
Who is telling the truth? My money on Ms Davey.
Accountant said it was a new part of France for SAH. his client had not been on holiday in this area of France before
When did the accountant learn this plan? Julian Stedman steers clear of stating the date he completed the emergency VAT return immediately prior to departure. Why??
Something at Marilynztomkins’ incisive blog, comments section interests me.
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/
I alluded to the parking place Martinet at 778m just north of the sharp bend/fork in the road, confirmed by commenter Oui.
Oui:” a bit south to where the map shows “Mont Benoit” on the left.”
It’s a small path, Route de la Combe d’Ire, and is barricaded for cars a few meters beyond the parking space. Cyclists and pedestrians can continue on a small mountaineous path.
Oui also writes: Most of those involved in what happened that night[Rainbow Warrior bombing, 1985] in an Auckland harbour have simply disappeared. Extraction ™
Max Qubit:”mr RAF = the key number
You have to crack this to explain the puzzle. I’m 100% sure of this:)”
I think BM built his story up from these comments – first use of “burning rubber” to explain dust on the side of the car, assuming the rare pics are not photo-shopped. [You’re shot, allegedly, and you keep exerting pressure on the accelerator? Possible? Don’t try this at home..]
And later, one possibility:
Oui:” -> Could indicate that the scenario didn’t happen”
My thinking exactly until something concrete turns up.
@ anders
re : dopey’s james scharff find. notice at 11.30pm 29/9 how Kathy & James started a ‘slide?’
@ jon the mod what was point in starting a 2nd thread? its the same old same old
but this JAMES SCHARFF character sounds interesting… any more dopey ?
Back to the Radio 4 prog:
Of Paul Ducher Simon Cox says.. “He believes he saw the Al-Hilli family driving past on what would be their final journey”
Amazing that this never came out before, despite Ducher being interviewed weeks ago. Funny, but weeks ago, Laurent Fillion-Robin, a builder of 48 MTE DE LA TREILLE
74210 Cons-Sainte-Colombe said he saw the al-Hilli family drive up the hill shortly before they were killed
More smoke??
Neither did Ducher report previously that the alleged group of Hikers stopped outside his farm. And the hikers leave the alleged crime scene, and tell Ducher “3, 4 dead” at the farm and Ducher regurgitates the official narrative from the alleged “hikers”. It is unbelievable Ducher never breathed a word of this before.
Sylvie [Lecoeur] “3.59pm” “Making a grin as he was trying to straighten up his car and avoid hitting me..” Brilliant split second analysis.
Back on the al-Hilli Conundrum thread, someone posted a link to a marine’s website. That website covered the topic of FADEC, or Full Authority Digital Engine Controls. That system is in place in the Airbus A-380. Saad al-Hilli worked on that model of plane.
The question is, are FADEC systems operable on cars, in particular the BMW that Saad al-Hilli was driving on the day of the Chevaline incident? Can cars be automatically controlled via the car computer, GPS and onboard customer assistance line, even if the customer does not subscribe? Not Boston Brakes, but FADEC?
More about FADEC:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/fadec-and-thales-win-a380-powerplant-and-avionics-deals-163297/
Electoral roll records show an extended family of eight living at the family home in Claygate, Surrey – all with the surname al-Hilli…. [now?? or having lived??]
James Matthews, a family friend, who had met through their children who had gone to playgroup together, said: “It was an extended family house and he [Saad al-Hilli] took it over when his mother died 10 years ago.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/07/annecy-murders-french-alps-baghdad
One for family tree expert Mr Sorensen to elaborate on.
I SEE THERE HAS BEEN some speculation as to why France would cover up for Mossad. Here’s a backgrounder, as they say in the States – that would be in English: Here is something that might explain it:
Ever since Shimon Persky {Peres to you] [Now president of Israel] in the early 50’s set up office ( ) in the Interior Ministry in Paris — having first pursuated the French that they and his country had a shared interest in developing nuclear weapons together — a strong cordial relationship has existed between the two countries, and he is regarded by the French as an Éminence grise, who through his wits and contacts helped the French become strong again, barely ten years after their not so glamerous behaviot during the Second World War. Shimon had the top scientists and fresh money from powerful backers in the United States. You know in these situationa all sorts of arguments are invented in order to persuade people, and get them to move in the desired direction, and so it was said that both Israel and France had a common strategic interest in the bomb, in order to counter Arab nationalism; Israel for obvious existential reasons, France for its interests in North Africa.
AND AS YOU KNOW France is quint essentially top-run from the center. Like a spider in the web, he who sits in the middle can control the whole thing – how odd this may sound for us in the Anglo Saxon hemisphere. And so it was that Shimon reckoned that by setting up his own office in the interior Ministry and promising the French La Bombe, he would at the same time serve Israels fundamental interests as well as ensuring a life long personal goodwill from the French. And if there is any problems — for instance if you need that a certain French laboratory detroys all evidence of polonium in Yassir Arafats underclothes – a telephone call from Shimon to the relevant parties in the French capital would be enough..
——-
The history of how Israel got the bomb — and Shimon’s role in it — is widely available on the internet.
@Roland:
No, it’s not far-fetched to think that the events in Annecy could have been monitored in real time. All someone would have needed is one of these little toy helicopters:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/world/africa/25canada.html?_r=0
I continue to believe that the most recent satellite launched by SSTL may be part of this story:
http://www.sstl.co.uk/news-and-events?story=2040
There is a trial about to begin in this case:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/inside-trinity-the-secretive-halifax-facility-where-an-alleged-spy-last-worked/article533865/
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/25/alleged-canadian-spy-jeffrey-paul-delisle-may-have-put-allies-secrets-at-risk/
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-expels-russian-diplomats-in-wake-of-charges-against-canadian/article2308879/?service=mobile
Tracking of ships via satellite, a possible Russian connection, and many countries interested in following the case…
Final thoughts on the R4 programme
“Last week friends held an improptu service for Saad and his wife” eh??? [er why not also his mother-in-law?]
Jesse Moore left SSTL in Jan 2011, hence his appearance after SSTL had shut up shop to the media. “…just an everyday mechanical engineer …small part in the bigger picture…just an everyday job..” I’m sure SSTL could have said this themselves.
http://uk.linkedin.com/in/jessemoore08?trk=pub-pbmap