Let me be upfront: none of my usual contacts, so far, has any knowledge about the very clinical murders in France of the Iraqi origin British Hilli family. I have seen various internet reports of the links of Mr Hilli to the defence industry and that the French cyclist victim was linked to the nuclear industry. I am not immediately concerned that the other cyclist who raised the alarm was ex-RAF; had that fact been sinister, it would have been hidden or he might not have raised the alarm at all.
In short, I really do not know what is happening here and I don’t think normal hierarchies within British security agencies know either. It may be genuinely random, or not. I am not posting to speculate or to spread knowledge, but because unless I do post, commenters will derail other threads to discuss this. Should I discover anything, I will let you know. But we may well never know; we still don’t really know who killed JFK, or Hilda Murrell. There is always an answer, but it is not always known to the public.
No excuse can justify the failure to identify and help the poor little girl who was still alive in the bottom of the car. Discovering if anybody was alive in the car should have outweighed every other consideration for the emergency services. Protocols for the dead will not help them much, whatever they may achieve for abstract justice. The living are easier to serve well, and this was a gross failure.
A few things in the overhead shots of the car when still at the scene stick out, one is what seems from the pictures to be three patches of bloodstains at the cars nearside, around about which the police seem to be unconcernedly walking around and possibly over, whilst more interested in something like a blue tarpaulin at the other side of the car, another is that the front windscreen seems to be caved in over a large area, low down in front of the driver, but far too low for a succesful shot, more like an impact between a body and the windscreen had taken place, and also there is an odd looking mark on the bonnet as if someone has stood upon it or something/body impacted with it, this might just be mud, but the face of the babby jeesus is quite distinctly visible in the pattern left.
@cryptonym
Interesting about the windscreen. From Icke…
Originally Posted by fancycat
If it was an automatic, and was in reverse with someones foot jammed on the accelerator, then with the wheels spinning in the soft ground jammed up against the bank it would certainly make it jump around as the DSC (dynamic stability control to provide ABS for wheelspin etc) cut in and out.
Yes makes sense, if the engine was jammed on max as poor old SAH was in rictus. At first I thought the rear wheel, which was flat, had dug into the earth. Now I’m not so sure. Maybe it was shot out with a bullet? Don’t see how it would have stopped a big old beemer from ramming a white peugot 206 to get away. If the 4×4 is real, perhaps that blocked in the beemer?
“but the face of the babby jeesus is quite distinctly visible in the pattern left.”
ROTFL!
How has the ‘ex-RAF cyclist’ proven to French police that he is not a suspect?
In the absence of an alibi or corroborating witnesses, who has vouched for him?
Is he not a more immediate and likely suspect than a family member?
Not such a conspiratorial bunch of commenters over on Sky News
http://news.sky.com/story/983064/alps-shootings-carried-out-by-one-gunman
Quite a lot of them exuding sympathy for the family of the ‘poor cyclist, wrong time, wrong place’!
@Felix
“Identities of Casings found at scene (allegedly) – two? Bullets entering peoples heads (allegedly) – one?”
So there were two weapons discharged at the scene, but all four of the dead were killed by the same weapon (and all four had these double shots to the head.)
So which weapon shot the seven year old?
And who was firing the second weapon? On the one hand, it’s unlikely that an execution squad would only have one person armed, but the French cyclist could have discharged a gun too. Or even, at a pinch, the RAF man.
Posted this on the other thread, this is getting a tad confusing, anyhoos:
@Craig, you old Machiavellin shill you! (wink)
You said: Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
The guy would have had to be better than Calamity Jane!
7.65mm suggests the Mossad weapon of choice, a Beretta 70 or 71. 8 rounds per chamber. The official story says 30 seconds firing. Witnesses talked of automatic fire, at a nearby camp site.
Anyhoos that means at 8 per slide, one shooter would have to reload at least 5 times in 30 seconds.
Right!
Posted this on Icke yesterday liking more now with 1 shooter:-
If the French cyclist was cycling towards the car when the gunman from the cover of the trees by the road, steps out after he passes and shoots 5 bullets into his back. The cyclist comes to rest where the tarp right by the BMW is seen later. Assassin comes to the fallen cyclist and 2 more shots to the head.
But if the assassin has been waiting for the French cyclist he is aware of the family in the BMW. But perhaps the ex-Raf guy is one of the little girl’s ‘good men’ and he is there for their protection while their father is meeting the ‘bad man’-the French cyclist who has been sending metals to Iran for nuclear…. The ‘good man’ becomes a ‘bad man’ when he doesnt just observe but shoots the French cyclist and continues by shooting the only material witnesses. This would only work if he already pre-planned becoming the British cyclist and taking the bike from the roof, but he told the family to put the bike there as it would explain why they went down that road in the first place.
Perhaps the 4yo was never in the car seat, the 7yo was and the 4 yo was already sitting on the floor by her mothers feet. Who was in the front passenger seat? The ex-RAF guy who protects the family and told them he has to meet the ‘bad man’. While there waiting for the French cyclist the 7yo wants to go to the toilet and gets out of the car.
The ex-Raf man makes sure the 7 yo girl cant tell the police anything when they arrive.
This would explain why the 4yo doesnt know the good men from the bad.
I want to ask the 2 bricklayers was there a bike on the roof of the BMW, & were there 2 men sitting in the front.
The green 4×4 turns suspicion to that.
The lady in the village saw no more than a bad driver on a bad bend but was a convenient diversion, for more leads.
Why so many shots? The 3 adults killed from the front passenger seat and then shot thru the windows afterwards to cover up.
“Earlier today, officers confirmed the elderly woman shot dead in the gun attack was the maternal grandmother.”
http://news.sky.com/story/983064/alps-shootings-carried-out-by-one-gunman
All that kerfuffle for nothing … but I realise they had to be sure.
My theory.
The ex-RAF cylcist was said to be just behind the French cyclist Mollier. I think he was shadowing him. I think MI5 knew that there was some kind of meeting between Mollier and Iranian agents. I think the French are very embarrassed by what looks like a worker of a state owned nuclear group selling know-how to help Iran make nuclear warheads. Especially as it highlights the substantial Iranian money invested in France’s nuclear industry. I suspect Al-Hilli, who was Shia and no doubt had mixed feelings about the UK and US after the Iraq war, and who came across Zirconium in his work with micro satellites, was perhaps being used by the Iranians to simply verify the industrial information.
Whether it was a hawkish Israel taking matters into its own hands, or an Iranian punishment for Mollier or Al-Hilli being double agents, I am not sure.
On the one hand, the attack is stark and brutal and conspicuous, and involving the murder of French and British nationals. It seems strange that Israel would not liase with its allies to create a more discreet series of arrests.
But equally, the manner of the attack seems very different to the spate of Iranian attacks on Israeli targets, which are frankly amateur and exclusively involving explosives.
Also, the fact that Chevalier was the codename for a nuclear weapons project where the UK realised they couldn’t rely on the US to retaliate if the Soveits attacked them, seems too coincidental not to perhaps be a bit of Mossad jiggery pokery.
This hit, after all, could be seen as the Israelis saying that they can no longer rely on the West to protect it from nuclear annihilation, and that it must go it alone. With the current lot in charge of Israel, one can imagine their line and ours is very different.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/jan/08/iran.observerpolitics
This is exactly what I mean, and the sort of thing that would have fractured UK and Israeli defense relations to the point where something like the Al-Hilli massacre could happen.
“Also, the fact that Chevalier was the codename for a nuclear weapons project”
Chevaline?
DonnyDarko – yes – assuming the photo at your link is accurate, that would appear to be the spot. URL for Google Maps http://goo.gl/maps/5v3jV
Anyone disagree with that?
@nuid
Yes, Chevaline
see here, I posted this yesterday here
Irony of the word “chevaline”, in light of what has happened near Chevaline, France:
[link to http://www.cnduk.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevaline
Chevaline (pronounced: Shev-a-leen) was a project to improve the penetrability of the warheads used by the British Polaris nuclear weapons system.
CND HERE
http://www.cnduk.org/information/bri…valine-scandal
Notice the word chevaline above
It is where the hit took place!
CND Special Report: The next Chevaline scandal?
This report has been assembled by Alan Simpson, MP for Nottingham South and specialist staff (William Peden, CND Parliamentary Officer and Louise Edge, CND Press Officer) from the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND), based on research undertaken over the last five years.
[Mod/Jon: deleted, as duplicated on the other thread, “The Al-Hilli Conundrum”, at 2012/09/10 at 2:31 pm]
Chevaline yes, sorry.
I don’t believe there was only one gun. The dead were killed by the same gun, fine, but if two types of casings were found, then two weapons were discharged. But by whom, that’s the question.
[Mod/Jon: deleted, as duplicated on the other thread, “The Al-Hilli Conundrum”, at 2012/09/10 at 2:38 pm]
Okay, I think I have the link.
Chevaline was a project codename to improve the penetrability of the warheads used by the British Polaris nuclear weapons system. This was the first submarine-based British nuclear weapons system.
In June of this year Iran announced it was planning to develop a nuclear-powered submarine.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/12/us-iran-nuclear-submarine-idUSBRE85B17Q20120612
Uranium-zirconium alloy fuels were used in the early US nuclear submarine programs, and zirconium alloys were used to clad the reactors powering them.
Al-Hilli has been credited as designing the galley kitchen of the new Airbus.
Could both be targets for designing a weaponised nuclear submarine? Mollier the reactor, Al-Hilli the actual interiors?
@Barkbat, good work indeed, sounds plausible, there are so many possibilities. At any rate some STATE wanted these 2 men very very dead.
I’m moving to the new thread at
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/the-al-hilli-conundrum/
As Craig suggested at 10 Sep, 2012 – 1:24 pm.
@nuid
French say they know how many guns and what type they were and what cartridges
all they are confirming so far is 43 bullets and 7.65mm
7.65mm suggests the Mossad weapon of choice, a Beretta 70 or 71. 8 rounds per chamber. The official story says 30 seconds firing. Witnesses talked of automatic fire, at a nearby camp site.
Anyhoos that means at 8 per slide, one shooter would have to reload at least 5 times in 30 seconds.
Now – if two guns were used, both Beretta 70/71s, it still means each was reloaded 3 times or so…
Camp site witnesses say they heard 30 seconds of automatic fire
So that rules out 2 x Berettas
I suggest one Beretta was used, and another gun, at least, on automatic
@nuid
Yes this is getting too confusing, also going over there
@anders7777 – thanks; deleting two duplicates on this thread.
Cheers Jon!
Mention the shitty strip of land, and presto the disinformation merchants will converge to destroy the thread with absolute bilge, with bits of reality woven into their stories.
The key is the four years old who survived the ordeal.
Why did she survive?
When and where was she hidden?
Who hid her? Ordered her to hide?
How did she keep quiet?
Obviously, the decision to hide her should have been taken before the shootings, which points to the fact that the parent/s ought to have known of impending “kidnap or murder” scenario!
Therefore it can be adduced that the parent/s knew their murderer.
The two bullet into the head is the throw back to South African practices which is also practised in that shitty little strip of land clearly as an after measure, because any kind of control of the other victims witnessing the execution would have been damn too difficult otherwise.
[Mod/Jon: duplicated on more recent post, “The Al-Hilli Conundrum”, at 2012/09/10 at 10:34 pm]
Anyone here notice the lefthand section of roofrack has gone? Was M.millaud asked that question? how did it come off,car chase,think not.
[Jon/Mod: duplicated on later post, “The Al-Hilli Conundrum”, at 2012/09/11 at 12:41 am]
i imagine that the 7 year old wanted to pee.