Let me be upfront: none of my usual contacts, so far, has any knowledge about the very clinical murders in France of the Iraqi origin British Hilli family. I have seen various internet reports of the links of Mr Hilli to the defence industry and that the French cyclist victim was linked to the nuclear industry. I am not immediately concerned that the other cyclist who raised the alarm was ex-RAF; had that fact been sinister, it would have been hidden or he might not have raised the alarm at all.
In short, I really do not know what is happening here and I don’t think normal hierarchies within British security agencies know either. It may be genuinely random, or not. I am not posting to speculate or to spread knowledge, but because unless I do post, commenters will derail other threads to discuss this. Should I discover anything, I will let you know. But we may well never know; we still don’t really know who killed JFK, or Hilda Murrell. There is always an answer, but it is not always known to the public.
No excuse can justify the failure to identify and help the poor little girl who was still alive in the bottom of the car. Discovering if anybody was alive in the car should have outweighed every other consideration for the emergency services. Protocols for the dead will not help them much, whatever they may achieve for abstract justice. The living are easier to serve well, and this was a gross failure.
General Yossi Ben Hanan (chief of defence at Paris Israeli embassy) has been flown from Paris to Chambery Airport according to Press TV. Chambrey is only a short drive from the site of the killing. He was 20 minutes on the tarmac before he left with three extra passengers. The helicopter flew on to Geneva
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22864183
Quelle surprise!?!?! So the Kidon team comprised three. Pretty much as I thought.
NB
IF TRUE THE ABOVE COULD BE MEGA IMPORTANT
A KIDON TEAM IS A MODSAD ASSASSINATION TEAM
POSSIBLY BEING FLOWN TO DIPLOMATIC SAFETY
Now the story is being pushed that this is to do with money/family:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19514794
Wow – that’s taking a family feud to extreme lengths.
Not sure I believe the DA Notice now, as it would have no affect on international press. Although a lot of sites seem to be refering to it, the only source seems to be the IndyMedia story, by an anon writer. I’ve asked those I know in the press and the media and they’ve heard nothing about this, including some that run social media for big media corps, and who normally receive this sort of info.
True about the DA notice, but I suspect that there is indeed one in effect. Look at how many spooks were scrambled – 20. A top Israeli landing very near the scene by helicopter, and spiriting out 3 presumably fellow Israelis to Geneva? The deceased former Iraqi nuclear expert well known to the Brit security services who had at least once in the past staked out his house. Nope, I’m satisfied the DA notice is real.
Technology swap?
or
Wrong place at the wrong time…
don’t fcuk with the french, brits or mossad
:/
Quoting: BuggedOut
They were all in the remote woods..
The Iraqi’s (Drones, aerial technology) (AMS 1087)
The French, Nuclear fuel, Zirconium (Cyzus)
The Brit, (Royal Air Force)
Now, why they met, is another question…
Why? How about this:
[link to http://www.liveleak.com]
Sounds like Zircaloy has a long history of failure. Who could be making the fuel rods for Iran?
General Yossi Ben Hanan (chief of defence at Paris Israeli embassy) has been flown from Paris to Chambery Airport according to Press TV. Chambrey is only a short drive from the site of the killing. He was 20 minutes on the tarmac before he left with three extra passengers. The helicopter flew on to Geneva
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22864183
Quelle surprise!?!?! So the Kidon team comprised three. Pretty much as I thought.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21335503
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Head of SIBAT, the Israeli Defense Ministry’s developing countries defense assistance division. Is France a developing country? Not.
@Mary
Muslims aren’t allowed to be cremated. They must be buried before the next sunset after they have died.
E.g. after Dodi Fayed was murdered with Princess Diana and Henri Paul in Paris, shortly after midnight, his body was flown back to Britain and buried on the same day.
SAH worked for SSTL:
“Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL) is the world’s leading small satellite company, delivering operational space missions for a range of applications including Earth observation, science and communications. The Company designs, manufactures and operates high performance satellites and ground systems for a fraction of the price normally associated with space missions, with 500 staff working on turnkey satellite platforms, space-proven satellite subsystems and optical instruments.”
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/29/s…kicks-in-21-m/
Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd. (SSTL) has plans to beef up planetary monitoring capabilities with its new NovaSAR satellite, and the company just received £21 million from the UK government to make it happen. NovaSAR works using synthetic aperture radar, so it can see through clouds (unlike optical satellites) and offers its services for £45 million — or 20 percent of the cost of existing space radar platforms. With governmental funding in hand, SSTL can begin to develop and build its first such satellite, and the plan is to put it in orbit in two or three years. If NovaSAR does what it’s been designed to do, SSTL hopes it can sell and launch enough of them so that any place on earth can be under its gaze in less than 24 hours. We’re all for improving disaster relief efforts, but if you spy these sats overhead on a clear night, we recommend keeping an ear to the ground in case they’re guiding an army of Alpha Dogs your way.
Irony of the word “chevaline”, in light of what has happened near Chevaline, France:
[link to http://www.cnduk.org]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
CND HERE
http://www.cnduk.org/information/bri…valine-scandal
Notice the word chevaline above
It is where the hit took place!
CND Special Report: The next Chevaline scandal?
This report has been assembled by Alan Simpson, MP for Nottingham South and specialist staff (William Peden, CND Parliamentary Officer and Louise Edge, CND Press Officer) from the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND), based on research undertaken over the last five years.
“General Yossi Ben Hanan (chief of defence at Paris Israeli embassy) has been flown from Paris to Chambery Airport according to Press TV. Chambrey is only a short drive from the site of the killing. He was 20 minutes on the tarmac before he left with three extra passengers. The helicopter flew on to Geneva”
Where is the source for this? There is no mention of it on Press TV. People are just making up stuff at this stage.
There is one aspect of this which I haven’t seen mentioned – where was the 7 year old girl sitting in the car and how did she get out of the car? The four year old has said that she was sitting in the back with her mother and the other woman, so that would only leave the front seat free for the 7 year old. A 7 year old should not be in the front seat of a car. And in the pictures, the passenger door is closed and the window is more or less intact – so how did she get out, if the car doors were locked? Was she in the car at all, or did the parents go there to collect her? If so – why bring the rest of the family.
Now the story morphs into a motorbike at the scene.
Again it reminds me of Diana, a white UNO, and a motorbike … Actually I am now getting shivers down my back, as in my fictional novel, I used all my research about the Diana Dodi assassination, on that there are credible reports that a motorcycle overtook their Merc, and fired a black ops laser-type light, into the driver’s eyes, blinding him.
Anyhoos this is the report:
http://www.independent.ie/world-news…e-3222375.html
Snip
A MOTORBIKE may have been used by the killers responsible for gunning down a British family in a French Alpine beauty spot, it has been revealed.
A British cyclist, who is a former RAF serviceman, has told police he saw a green four-wheel drive car and a motorbike speeding towards the scene before he arrived, police said today.
It is the first suggestion of another vehicle being involved other than the 4×4.
The British witness, who gave a seven-year-old girl first aid at the scene, arrived after a French cyclist overtook him and was shot dead. His body was found near the British-registered car.
“He has a keen sense of observation. This could help us greatly,” a source told French channel M6.
Eric Maillaud, Annecy prosecutor, told the local Dauphiné Libéré newspaper: “This case looks more and more like an ambush even if we are not sure this is the work of a professional.”
French authorities were today investigating a possible family involving Saad al-Hilli, who was shot dead with his wife while on holiday, French prosecutors said today.
Mr al-Hilli, 50, was named as the owner of the BMW discovered in a car park near Chevaline in Haute-Savoie.
The French authorities said the killings appeared to have been carried out by a professional hitman because of the accuracy of the gunshots.
Mr Maillaud said a “family drama” had not been ruled out.
His wife Iqbal, 77-year-old mother-in-law and a passing cyclist were also shot dead.
The couple’s seven-year-old daughter Zainab and her four-year-old sister Zeena survived but the older girl remains in hospital.
“This seems to be credible information coming from the British police,” Mr Maillaud told a news agency.
Police were also expected to appeal for witnesses today after one described a dark green 4×4 vehicle at the crime scene, which was discovered by a British cyclist.
The rider, a former RAF serviceman, would have almost certainly seen the killer or killer’s car as it fled, a police source said.
There is only one road to and from the crime scene, and the only other route would be through the mountain on foot or bike, he added.
However, Sylvie, an inhabitant of Chevaline, the village nearest the crime scene, told BFMTV she was almost knocked off her bike by a panic-stricken motorist in a white car on the road leading to the forest just after the attack.
“There was a very steep, dangerous bend and a person came round it the other way very, very fast, he was coming straight toward me and only just missed knocking me over,” she said.
“He appeared to be in total panic and not in control of his vehicle. A white vehicle, a [Peugeot]. I saw it was a dark-haired man with a black shirt or sweater.”
Detectives have asked for international help from British and Swedish authorities to gather evidence to identify the victims.
A spokesman for Surrey Police said: “Surrey Police is currently assisting the French authorities and liaising with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office following the deaths of four people near Annecy in southern France yesterday.
“This is an ongoing investigation being carried out by the French Police and we are unable to confirm any details about the incident.”
More information also emerged about the quadruple murder this morning, revealing Mr al-Hilli, his wife and mother-in-law were all killed with two bullets each, indicating the work of a marksman.
Iraqi-born engineer Mr al-Hilli was shot first in the forehead before a second “coup de grace” shot was aimed to ensure he was dead.
Witnesses reported hearing just 30 seconds of gunfire and police on the scene found 15 spent bullet casings, with no stray bullets.
The French cyclist, who arrived at the scene after overtaking a British rider, was shot five times after being “in the wrong place at the wrong time”. He was named as 45-year-old father-of-three Sylvain Mollier.
Eric Maillaud, the Annecy prosecutor, told BFMTV last night: “All the victims died from several bullets, several shots, and all have at least one bullet that has been shot in the head.
“All avenues are being considered, the most sordid, a family drama … All avenues are being explored.”
Autopsies on the bodies were taking place today.
Yesterday, it emerged Mr al-Hilli had expressed concerns to a neighbour before leaving for Le Solitaire du Lac campsite in Saint Jorioz.
Jack Saltman, 67, said: “He did say something to me which gave me cause to worry a little bit. Before he left he came round and saw me and asked if I would keep an eye on his house.
“It may be totally irrelevant if this was to be a terrible murderous killing.
“But I have told the police and if it is relevant they will have it and if it is not relevant then no one will ever know.”
Mr Saltman refused to elaborate further, but said Mr Hilli’s fears were “definitely not political”.
Zainab, a pupil at Claygate Primary School, was said to be “stable” in an induced coma in hospital in Grenoble after operations on her fractured skull and a gunshot wound to her shoulder.
Her younger sister, Zeena, was being looked after in a psychiatric hospital after spending almost eight hours hiding in the car with the bodies of her parents and grandmother.
Mr Maillaud said she was interviewed last night but had been unable to give officers any more details.
“We must treat with extreme caution the statements of a traumatised girl,” he said.
François Daoust, the director of the National Gendarmerie’s Institute of Criminal Research, defended the investigators who failed to find Zeena, 4, when they arrived at the scene.
“Firefighters and an emergency doctor arrived first. The doctor found four deaths: one cyclist and three adults in the car. He also noted the presence of this girl seriously injured outside. He absolutely did not see this little girl, who was hidden. He also heard nothing,” he told Le Nouvel Observateur.
“The doctor had distinguished no sign of life. The police also filmed in the car, through the window, and nothing was visible on these images. There was no noise, no movement, and they did not even know that another child was missing.”
He said that no mistakes had been and no French police procedures would be changed.
“The mistake is to believe that a crime scene must be processed in minutes in an emergency, and samples can be rushed. It’s not possible. It would jeopardise the investigation,” he said.
“We will not change protocols due to exceptional circumstances. We have never encountered a case like this, it is totally unique.”
Mr al-Hilli, who was born in Baghdad, came to Britain with his parents in the 1970s to escape persecution from Saddam Hussein’s Baath party.
They lived in Pimlico, central London, where Mr al-Hilli’s father, Kadhim, also an engineer, set up his own factory.
The family moved to a house in Clay-gate in 1984, which became Mr al-Hilli’s own family home when he married his wife, a dentist, and had children. His mother died 10 years ago and his father died last year.
His brother Zaid, whose family live in nearby Kingston upon Thames, was unavailable for comment but a relation declined to discuss the deaths.
By Donna Bowater and Henry Samuel Telegraph.co.uk
End snip
COMMENTS by anders7777
1. A British cyclist, who is a former RAF serviceman, has told police he saw a green four-wheel drive car and a motorbike speeding towards the scene before he arrived, police said today.
So that means RAFman was overtaken by a French cyclist, a 4×4, and a motorbike
All in a f**king hurry!
No mention of a white car
No doubt that was at the head of the trail…
2. Mr al-Hilli, 50, was named as the owner of the BMW discovered in a car park near Chevaline in Haute-Savoie.
Is this whacking to do with the word CHAVALINE???
Bearing in mind the campaign for nuclear disarmament paper posted, and the wiki article.
Is this the subtext of the killings? CHAVALINE?
3. Eric Maillaud, Annecy prosecutor, told the local Dauphiné Libéré newspaper: “This case looks more and more like an ambush even if we are not sure this is the work of a professional.”
Yes it does.
4. However, Sylvie, an inhabitant of Chevaline, the village nearest the crime scene, told BFMTV she was almost knocked off her bike by a panic-stricken motorist in a white car on the road leading to the forest just after the attack.
“There was a very steep, dangerous bend and a person came round it the other way very, very fast, he was coming straight toward me and only just missed knocking me over,” she said.
“He appeared to be in total panic and not in control of his vehicle. A white vehicle, a [Peugeot]. I saw it was a dark-haired man with a black shirt or sweater.”
So we have a dark green 4×4 – sounds like a British MOD Landrover to me – could they be that stupid?
We have RAFman plodding up the hill
We have him being overtaken by Sylvain, with huge links to all the dodgy nuclear industries on this thread
We have a white car lying in wait
We have RAFman being overtaken by a motorbike
Anyone ever see the Charles Bronson film “The Mechanic”? Quite apropos ref motorcycles…
5. Witnesses reported hearing just 30 seconds of gunfire and police on the scene found 15 spent bullet casings, with no stray bullets.
Now this is interesting!!!
Just exactly WHO are these “witnesses”???
Found 15
Today 25
NO STRAY BULLETS!
and apparently NO BLOOD EITHER…
and as of last night 30 MAGIC bullets
6. Yesterday, it emerged Mr al-Hilli had expressed concerns to a neighbour before leaving for Le Solitaire du Lac campsite in Saint Jorioz.
Jack Saltman, 67, said: “He did say something to me which gave me cause to worry a little bit. Before he left he came round and saw me and asked if I would keep an eye on his house.
“It may be totally irrelevant if this was to be a terrible murderous killing.
“But I have told the police and if it is relevant they will have it and if it is not relevant then no one will ever know.”
Mr Saltman refused to elaborate further, but said Mr Hilli’s fears were “definitely not political”.
Anyone here heard of SAYANIM???
Saltman/Saltzman is Jewish name.
David Saltman – Name Popularity – WhitePages.com
names.whitepages.com/california/…/ …
There are no WhitePages members with the name David Saltman. … It is a very popular Jewish name, but is almost equally common among Gentiles in the English-speaking world.
Family Facts for: Saltzman
http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname...
Saltzman Name Meaning. Jewish (Ashkenazic): occupational name for a producer or seller of salt, from …
SALTZMAN – saltzman meaning – Jewish Genealogy
http://www.hebrewsurnames.com/SALTZMAN
SALTZMAN family genealogy and meaning of the Jewish surname SALTZMAN.
Someone said last night this dodgy geezer was an attention HO, lol.
I think he was bang on.
Why should this murky individual pop up in the spook Telegraph and elsewhere, misdirecting things???
Eh???
SAYANIM
Mossad’s One Million Helpers World – The Occidental …
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/…/Webst...
26 Mar 2010 – The Labour government’s Jewish (but not necessarily Zionist) Foreign Secretary … This denial of Mossad’s million helpers among Diaspora Jewry studiously failed to …
Sayanim – Israel’s and Mossad’s Jewish helpers abroad
radioislam.org/islam/english/…/sayanim. …
Sayan; Hebrew: helpers, assistants) is a term for a Mossad operative recruited from among the Jewish …
By Way of Deception – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/…/By_Way_of_ …
Ostrovsky claims that Mossad has access to Jewish helpers all around the world called sayanim…
Al Hilli worked on a covert “Iran nuclear program” operation set up by MI5, but in fact he was a double agent working for Iranian security, the Mossad learned of this, and sent documents to Iranian security regarding his real identity, they in turn massacred the family.
Above from another site, mi5 are removing everything!
Story changing rapidly. The dead cyclist is said to have worked for a metal manufacturing company. Speculation about the al-Hilli family says they might have been victims of a robbery by a gang of thieves, or witnessed a drug deal.
[link to http://www.telegraph.co.uk]
Can we assume that the British Embassy’s deputy head of mission in France attends the crime scene for every murder of a British resident in France?
Cat. Out. Of. Bag.
SSTL is part of EADS (European Aerospace Defence Systems). Think of Hakluyt/Shell/BP et al. Al-Hilli may well have been privy to some very interesting work.
@Anders7777
Is there a proper source for the Yossi Ben Hanan story?
It’s doing the rounds as sourced to Press TV. I checked the Press TV website yesterday, and again today, and found no reference to it. In fact they do not appear to be covering the al-Hilli killings at all.
The Yossi Ben Hanan story originally appeared as a comment on Indymedia. It had a link to the Press TV story. However when I tried to check the link was “Not Found”. If someone made up the story they also made up a Press TV URL.
Fiction or pulled by Press TV after they posted it?
The Yossi Ben Hanan story originally appeared as a comment on Indymedia. It had a link to the Press TV story. However when I tried to check the link was “Not Found”. If someone made up the story they also made up a Press TV URL.
Fiction or pulled by Press TV after they posted it?
Pulled. DA NOTICE here, they have their own reasons there.
Craig, is there any reason some of my posts were not published?
The ones on SAYANIM and a Kidon team being exfiltrated?
Sorry my fault, they are there, cheers!
Yes the press conf was just for show, it is clear they want to bury this story.
Was Sylvain meeting SAH in the woods to swap mutual data? Was RAFman tailing Sylvain, and yes he was overtaken, but what are the odds, eh??? IMHO Sylvain was also a target, and the hit happened at a meet.
Maybe.
This was the URL given for the Press TV source. The comment containing the link (and all other comments) were taken down by Indymedia.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/09/06/260069/Yossi
Yes N_ I do know about Muslim burials before sundown the same or next day but this French prosecutor seemed to imply that there was some doubt about a burial. I thought cremation so as to get rid.
A possible scenario – all my own invention.
Family has Father and Mother-in-law (72 years old) in front; mother and two kids in back. Murder squad – two or three – pull guns and stop them because the squad wants some information – name of Iraqi contact, secret formula. Four year old hides and is hidden by mother under her skirts; squad order seven year old out of car and mother in law into back so they can deal with father. Seven year old is smashed over head to persuade father to co-operate (quietly – they don’t want visitors).
Into this comes French cyclist; he promptly tries to escape to get help (or even more bravely, tries to interfere). Squad react and kill him – bang, bang, bang. While gang is distracted, At same time, father flings car into reverse; gets stuck in bank. (My car automatically locks if I go more that 5mph; does his BMW?)
Squad have to get out now; anybody who heard shots may interfere or call police. Execute everybody; bullets to head. Enough times to kill. Same for seven year old child (already looking half dead), and off squad goes. In comes RAF guy (my army training made me better with gunshots than with sickness!); he saves kid and calls police. Would squad now need a quicker way out of France.
In passing the translator at the Press Conference isn’t very good (e.g. peur is fear, not fury). Every sympathy; I hate simultaneous translation; much better to leave the original and add subtitles afterwards.
I will now go back to reading Agatha Christie.
Yes stick to AC, lol, this area is NOT that isolated, cars come and go, hikers, bikers, it is NOT a place to start torturing a child in front of a family, the father for a start would be far too traumatised to give any hurried coherent information. No dice whatsoever on this theory.
A Colonel Mark de Tarle is conducting the ‘search’ of the Al Hilli home with other officers and some from the Surrey police. In view of their terrible record including the Milly Dowler case, I can’t think the latter will be of much assistance. What is going on?
Anyway, this Colonel is head of the National Gendarmerie. His previous position was Colonel of this regiment. An army colonel running the gendarmerie??
68e régiment d’artillerie d’Afrique
Un article de Wikipédia, l’encyclopédie libre.
Le 68e régiment d’artillerie d’Afrique est une unité de l’armée de terre française. L’actuel régiment est le dernier des régiment d’artillerie d’Afrique encore en activité et est l’héritier des régiments d’artillerie d’Afrique et groupes d’artillerie d’Afrique. Il est à ce titre dépositaire des traditions de l’artillerie d’Afrique et autorisé officiellement depuis 1993 à porter des attributs spécifiques rappelant cet héritage[1].
(14e) 1999 – 2001 : colonel De Tarlé
http://encyclo.voila.fr/wiki/68e_r%C3%A9giment_d'artillerie_d'Afrique
Algeria comes to mind.
This was the URL given for the Press TV source. The comment containing the link (and all other comments) were taken down by Indymedia.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/09/06/260069/Yossi
It was also on pinkfish, but swiftly taken down as the DA notice kicked in. If it is true that SAH was indeed a bouble agent, and Mossad betrayed him to the Savak boys, then it kinda fits – the current presstv dearth.
“Algeria comes to mind.”
Inspector Clouseau comes to mind…
All sides want this buried.
Al Jazeera Sept 8….(police – UK or French? – crawling over the Claygate house in protective suits)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIXLlUZzY7o
“..may have been a racist attack of some sort..”
Oh yeah!
If it was something very simple like a password or a name the father would have been able to give that information quickly. A quick “persuasive” smash of the child’s head doesn’t take any time either.
Not that I am saying I think that is what actually happened but it still seems possible to me.
I don’t have enough info on the site myself to know the likely length of time the killers thought they had.
If I had been in the car I would have started voice record on my phone if I had a chance. Don’t risk video record in case the light comes on alerting the attackers. No attempt seems to have been made to check the mobiles of the victims for many hours after the attack. I have heard it reported there is no cellphone coverage at the location, except by satellite phone. So they couldn’t call for help even if anyone tried to.
French news item here today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssb1yAE6_hw
Notice the presence of (ex) Scotland Yard detective Kevin Hurley as expert, who was also given exposure elsewhere on the case by SkyTV, and who “investigated the murder of an Iraqi dissident in Notting Hill in 1986” , from Thallium poisoning allegedly, pushing the Iraqi exile hit [improbable, just like Norman Baker tried to blame the hit on Dr Kelly on the same groups….]
Incidentally, Mr Hurley has an iron in the fire: he is running for police commissioner in Surrey.
@ Anon:
If there was no mobile phone coverage at the site, how did the ex RAF Officer manage to call the ambulance for the injured girl?
What was so special about the elderly Swedish victim that nobody dares to name her?
Good point Nevermind. Like most of us on this thread, I assume a D Notice is in operation which puts under wraps ‘sensitive’ information- notice how little detail is given in UK reports (compared to French reports) about the nuclear connections of the local cyclist who was also murdered. Perhaps the al-Hilli in laws have connections the PTB would not like to reveal to the great unwashed at this point,lest ‘conspiracy theories’ flourish after the names are released.
[Mod/Jon: fixed other post]
…sorry, mistyped: “how” not “who”