My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Bluebird,
All of which may be true but particle accelerators have nothing to do with LASERs and the SILEX process as far as I can see.
Espionage is an ugly business. I cannot blame Mr Saad Al Hilli for supplying valid information on certain nuclear fusion techniques to Iran according to my source.
An apriorism I confess – although I sincerely believe my Iraq sources that Saad Al Hilli had betrayed Britain (a country he hated with America) and was disrobed some years ago. His house and communications were extensively eavesdropped. These listening devices/wiretaps were removed from his home – hence the bomb scare to clear all unnecessary personnel while the ‘bomb squad’ went in to do the clearance job.
Despite intense fear as a marked man (I believe he remarked to a neighbour that he feared for his life) Saad nevertheless went to a campsite in France for a secret meeting and then moved on to another site (the murder site) a few miles away having suspected he was followed.
The so called former RAF serviceman was the hit man I believe. He will never be named.
p.s Is this the same unidentified ‘hill walker’ man who murdered Robin Cook top of Ben Stack?
I know it’s off topic but can anyone recommend some reading on what happened to Robin Cook? Was there a blog on his demise here?
Was there a definitive answer about whether the car is an automatic? Not great towing caravans with an automatic, if they were towing the caravan – from Britain, or picked up in France? Finally on this angle, if the car has a tow hitch then reversing it into a bank could have jammed it in completely and may, may have contributed to the boot springing open.
How do the French know the ‘ex-RAF’ man is above suspicion? Who vouched for him? Has he been checked for gunshot residue?
As regards who was responsible and how they escaped – best in the circumstances (so much disinformation) not to think about motive but look (for now) at opportunity.
The one thing that cannot be explained in this is why there is so little scrutiny of the French cyclist Moller. When you put together the following, it all points to the Al-Hillis simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time, perhaps doing no more than stopping their journey to let their daughter have a pee, and Moller being the true target: (1) Moller’s links to specialist nuclear research; (2) this being his daily cycle route, hence a job for a single assassin with limited ammunition; (3) the evidence of no car following the Al-Hillis which points to an assassin lying in wait for Moller; (4) the frenzied attempt to reverse the car indicating being surprised by a scene; and (5) if the seven year old was bludgeoned because the ammunition ran out, then that must have been because Moller had been the target and already been shot before the Al Hilli’s arrived! Frankly even if Al Hilli was a target I cannot conceive of evil so great that would drive someone to hit a girl in that way for no other reason than to leave no tracks. Whatever people say about Israel I cannot imagine that this degree of evil exists there and certainly does not exist in the British security services.
Mark,
If what you say is true then either Craig’s “sources” are lying to him or Craig himself is lying to us – as he was clearly someone very much of interest to the security services. Or your source is lying. Which do you think most likely?
So RAF guy shoots and pistol whips girl then later saves her life rather than just disappearing?
I am having a hard time buying that.
Yep, mainly Horse Racing !
But what this has to do with the prce of cornbeef, the Lord only knows !
@anders7777 – if you are copy-and-pasting from other sites, could you not just hyperlink them? I am not sure there is much value in just copying – and it appears to break some of the external refs, such as the Google Maps links.
@james/@anders7777 – in the absence of proof of bad faith, let’s assume the best of each other please. Opinions will vary wildly on a topic like this, and we should be okay with that. Let’s have interesting research and hypothesis rather than a bun-fight 🙂
Anon, Silex nuclear technology is exactly a laserbeamer. Of course it is more complicated than that, but it is a particle accelerator with laser technology. That’s exactly how CERN is working. You can use it to create nuclear material for weapons much quicker, cheaper and in much smaller devices than the previous method with centrifuges. If they were experts they likely built a small device in al-hillis garage.
Suhayl, you are a most excellent contributor and I enjoy your postings.
Somebody earlier mentioned the killers deliberately spared the children – I am inclined to see it that way now. Whilst they ‘disabled’ the older girl – I am sure they did not intend to kill either and probably ignored the four year old whom they surely must have seen.
Didn’t the RAF Officer have a house in the area? If so I am sure that helps to discount him as an accessory.
As as for “Embers7777″ ”
It shows a machine pistol type…I could be assed watching !
Yes, they fire…
….and his logic is…. guns fire bullets…fast !!!!!!!
Well proved (useless, but well proved)
So do MACS, UZI’s All AK’s, all FN’s (the P90 is good) and H&K’s.
The “Hard fact” is what ? Guns kill people !
Man go to sleep….or get on your “Wee” or whatever you kids do these days…. just “play pretend”.
You’re odd…and if over 25…. I may just becoming to say a special “Good Night” Xxxx
Mark,
And surely if he was that closely watched, is it not likely he had been turned again and supplied INVALID fusion information – if he supplied anything at all that is.
Of course if you really know a source who has access to the truth of this, your source would likely want the recipients to think any supplied information was valid rather than nonsense, or worse potentially booby-trapped.
“I cannot conceive of evil so great that would drive someone to hit a girl in that way for no other reason than to leave no tracks. Whatever people say about Israel I cannot imagine that this degree of evil exists there and certainly does not exist in the British security services.”
Oh my, Anton … such faith …
@Jon….
Understood. (just didn’t like being “sworn at”).
So, what’s youre theory.
Everyone says “possibly” why.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by molliemallone
Another thing bothers me… if they did not move the bodies until at least 8 hrs after death, rigor mortis would have set in. The following is taken from wikipedia…
Application in forensic pathology
The degree of rigor mortis may be used in forensic pathology to determine the approximate time of death. A body goes stiff in the position it was in when the person dies. If the position in which a body is found does not match the location where it is found (for example, if it is flat on its back with one arm sticking straight up), that could mean someone moved it. Several factors also affect the progression of rigor mortis, and investigators take these into account when estimating the time of death. One such factor is the ambient temperature. When conditions are warm, the onset and pace of rigor mortis are sped up by providing a conducive environment for the metabolic processes that cause decay. Cold temperatures, however, slow them down. Therefore, a person who dies outside in freezing temperatures may experience rigor mortis over several days more than normal, so investigators may have to abandon it as a tool for determining time of death.
If the 4 year old was hiding under the mother’s legs in the footwell, it may have been difficult to get her out. Also, it wouldn’t have been easy to extract the bodies without using some force which they would probably be reluctant to do on the side of a mountain!
True, total fairytales as I have said all along, well, after 12-24 hrs or so …
I think I owe friend Bradstone an apology. Maybe. LOL. Come back Bradstone, all is forgiven!
No spatter
No rigor mortis
No pools of blood anywhere, really.
No Swedish ID
All others ID’d except RAFman
False bollocks story by woman who saw a white car racing DOWN the hill.
Jubelo and Jubela MASONS yet another planted story, and is RAFman Jubelum???’
So was my theory about Zeena being MK’d correct?
Is this a total Tavistock psyop, like7/7, a given, now?
I know damn well SIS and SDECE are running the show now, so expect more
HOODWINKS
(wink)
Long thread..Has anyone mentioned the missing lefthand roofrack section? where is it? have the police found it,how did it become detatched from the BMW. Nicked?
I don’t understand why people describe this former RAF man as a ‘former RAf officer”. He may have had many roles during his life so far eg “former husband, former barman, former mechanic, former student” etc. None of these are mentioned. Are we supposed to conclude that the fact he was in the forces makes him above reproach? I have known of policeman and military men who were far from above reproach. I am struggling with this description of this witness. Are we to infer that, as a British (loyal and patriotic) ex-serviceman, he is whiter than white? It is not working for me. I need to know more. Perhaps this is a label the media gave him rather than the authorities. Even so, it worries me.
=====
Totally agree Lillian
This is TOTAL Tavistick media control in realtime
Anon,
Craig has ‘..no reason to disbelieve them [his security sources]. I have no reason to disbelieve Craig or my own sources. Nobody is lying here in fact I believe Craig is spot on when he references the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby.
Bluebird,
CERN doesn’t have any SILEX setup or anything like that that I can see. Who said there’s a connection? None of the links I have followed so far suggests any research into SILEX at CERN. There is ISOLDE at CERN but again this is a different technology to what SILEX is claimed to be.
I could be missing something though I admit,
Nuid I may have a mis-placed faith in mankind. The point is that if it was shown that a foreign government, of whatever type, killed British citizens, and attacked British children, for no reason other than to leave no evidence, then we have a major international incident here. In my opinion, this would justify the UK using military force against that country.
POST BY “CD” is great.
Full version above…
Was there a definitive answer about whether the car is an automatic? Not great towing caravans with an automatic, if they were towing the caravan – from Britain, or picked up in France?
A 5 Series (Auto) can tow alot…and not sure (but thought) it was already in france (The caravan).
“Finally on this angle, if the car has a tow hitch then reversing it into a bank could have jammed it in completely and may, may have contributed to the boot springing open”.
Could have been opened afterwards by the police.
How do the French know the ‘ex-RAF’ man is above suspicion? Who vouched for him? Has he been checked for gunshot residue?
No one I guess.
And to the next question.
And to the last…. If you are near a body with gunsot residue, would you pick up any ! Or lots ?
It is a great point you make.
As regards who was responsible and how they escaped – best in the circumstances (so much disinformation) not to think about motive but look (for now) at opportunity.
But if “we” understand “how” we may get “why”.
All I see is UYYTT have Nuclear people working for TTYU X and they work fir SSSIRRA in Iran and Jamacia !!!!!
If we start with what we “know”, we can get somewhere…
Think JFK….what was “shown” is accepted.
UNTIL people looked at it. Then it all changed.
Took X amount of years,,,,but it starts somewhere.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN
Anon, this is how a laser guided particle accelerator works. Silex is the same basic system used for nuclear material creation for weapons. According to the mirror he worked for such an accelerator and so did hicheur. I have no doubts that those two guys were amongst the very few people who knew about the gov. Protected secrets of Silex nuclear material science.
Long thread..Has anyone mentioned the missing lefthand roofrack section? where is it? have the police found it,how did it become detatched from the BMW. Nicked?
Yes.
Trawl back Ian mate!
‘He was a control freak, I wanted him wiped out of my life’: Astonishing letter shows level of animosity between French Alps murder victim and his brother
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200600/French-Alps-murder-Letter-shows-animosity-victim-brother.html#ixzz266XQBpp5
nice mail fake headline cover….
remember the old msm israel lie or miss translation.
Wipe Israel ‘off the map’ Iranian says
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/world/africa/26iht-iran.html
or why not wipe israel of the face of the earth
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/wipe-them-off-the-face-of-the-earth-iran-issues-new-threat-to-israel/
the headline below is for syria or iran or last year it would have been libya under the colonel.
today it is probably for iran.
Alps victims shot in an act of ‘gross savagery’
mi6 or mossad or cia hit is never gross savagery in msm eyes
so intended story did not gel or shattering iran connection to come.
The RAF veteran with ‘nerves of steel’
the local gendarmerie, praised the English cyclist for the way he acted after coming across the BMW with three dead bodies in it.
Prosecutor Eric Maillaud also praised the cyclist, saying: ‘His extraordinary conduct, testimony and bravery should be saluted. He’s someone with nerves of steel.’
He praised the cyclist for his “extraordinary” response at the scene. He said: Prosecutor Eric Maillaud said yesterday: “His testimony and bravery should be saluted. He is a former professional of the Royal Air Force, so he’s someone with nerves of steel
this is classic
“I remind you that he’s a brave witness and a free man and has the right to return to Britain to recover after the shock he went through.”
Maillaud praised the British cyclist for his clear head, as he had put the girl in the recovery position and called emergency services. “He is to be congratulated for his bravery,” Maillaud said.
how much praise can one corrupt french police official give to a brit military clean up guy or mr bean surveillance protection false bike man.
he is a killer a cleaner or shabby protection or innocent i suppose.
french daily fact change is the key to
ob·fus·cate/ˈäbfəˌskāt/
Verb:
Render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.
Bewilder (someone).
everything the french say is suspect and cover.
“By way of deception, thou shall do war”
Divert again.
I can see a pattern here ?
and you sere for whom ?
“In my opinion, this would justify the UK using military force against that country.”
But not if it’s Israel, Anton. Israel is forgiven many things. As you know, the US even vetoes UN resolutions against it. And the US and UK are hand in glove in these matters.
O
Well two people have come up with something.
QUOTE…
the timing, the officer said that the cyclist who found the bodies put “usually half an hour to climb this,” and he was overtaken by the second cyclist killed in the massacre at the beginning of the mounted. has therefore a priori discovered the bodies at maximum half an hour after the shooting.
AND QUOTE
one visible flat tyre” said at press conf on Friday. If it was spinning and digging into the ground for a time could it have just burst?
Put that lot in with the Fillion-Robin story and there is “half an hour.
I assume that the DSC on a BMW 5 series SE would keep going, but if flat ..does it ?
So can we agree that …..?
Maybe the shotting happened and there was a pause…before SM turned up ?
I was thinking it happened at the same time ?
=====
We can agree that you can’t be arsed to read the two Craig threads.
No more.
And your age roughly is ?
@anders7777 – I don’t think a label “ex-RAF man” is in itself suspicious. As I’ve said elsewhere in other contexts, the media like to paint a picture – rightly or wrongly, we all tend to form a view about someone based on their (alleged) profession.
I should think there are plenty of people in the media, who without deliberately setting out to misinform, will make use of “ex RAF” as shorthand for strong, sturdy, reliable, patriotic, honest (etc). Although there is plenty wrong with the media, I should think that if some of the details are wrong about this chap, then it would be much easier for the French police to put out some wrong info, rather than ask the all the world’s journalists to lie about it.
Although there’s been reasonable speculation about a D-Notice, that would only apply to the UK media, but the story is of international interest and speculation. So in general I’d tend to regard the media as mainly unwitting propagators of a particular angle, rather than all in on some big plan.
Given all the facts that suggest Moller was the true target, not least of which this being a daily cycle route for him, has anyone got anything more than conjecture on what he did for a living? Why do some sources say he was no more than a metal worker? It’s odd that the French are not up in arms about the killing of one of their civilians.