My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Bluebird.
No one can even agree on his leave !
Was it three years ? (I have read that also).
But his “new” wife had only just given birth (June).
He had two children with a previous wife (“father of 3”)
Nothing is really “known”. All reports are conflicting. No one has the facts.
And worse, no “reporter” is looking into it !
The U.K. police appear unconcerned.
And the French authorities are as quiet as mice.
A mascre….that’s incredibly “odd”.
And there is nada.
Dopey……… that ties in with her visit to police informing them he was missing? Maybe she was worried because he had taken this new route.She could have just thought he had had a cycling accident on an ‘unknown’ road.
James… someone posted link to a blog written by someone called portia he/she stated that Mollier had taken parental leave.
Semi rings a bell I think, any scoop?
@ anders
Semi rings a bell I think, any scoop?
……………………..
Eh?
The local french journo in the town has also stopped tweeting and covering the story
IAn
I know. I have read it in earlier reports.
But what was it ?
Three years ? And a child with his new with (June 2012) ?
Or Three months ?
Or Three years…and all the children are with the same woman ?
The French media reported (about his funeral) he had one child with his new wife in June….and already had two with another woman previously.
The Le Dauphine report is on a link here (must be dated Monday)
So three years (amazingly odd) or three months (pretty normal).
And as for “no one knows anything”.
The British police haven’t said a jot.
What about “is there a serial killer on the loose in a popular British area of France ?”
British police…. “No Comment” !! That’s just mad !
Sorry, Katie I posted got bored with what was being posted and went out to do some shopping.
@anders “Great post btw Roland! ;)”
which one?
I hope the one questioning the reported discovery of Zeena.
Could somebody explain to me how come it was reported to the police, prior to here alleged discovery in the BMW, that there was a child “missing” from the campsite that the Al-Hilli’s had been staying?
Maybe this is absolutely nothing and I’m having a hard of thinking moment; but I don’t get this at all.
Was Zeena being looked after by someone on the campsite and all of a sudden she went missing, then is reported to the police that a child is missing?
Or
Did the police go to the campsite and say ‘hey we got 3 adults, related, dead in a beamer, the 7 year old is injured but survived’; someone in the campsite says ‘only one daughter? but there are two!’
Somebody please!?!
Just looking through the papers !!!
Check this out !
http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-nord/2012/09/18/des-voleurs-de-metaux-tentent-de-s-introduire-dans-la-centrale
The deployment of police on the ground and in the air has not gone unnoticed in the late afternoon on the area of Vienna. They were looking for a car with four occupants were trying to break into the site of the nuclear Saint-Alban/Saint-Maurice. Routed at 18:35 when they came to shear the end, these four Romanian nationals were intercepted half an hour later at toll-Vaugris Reventin. According to our information, they wanted to steal the metals. They are currently in custody.
@ roland
Did the police go to the campsite and say ‘hey we got 3 adults, related, dead in a beamer, the 7 year old is injured but survived’; someone in the campsite says ‘only one daughter? but there are two!’
……………………..
This one, I think.
I find it hard to believe that kid was in the car like that for 8 hours. When did they take the bodies away- the following day? I know it was daylight so it must have been.
Just looking through the papers !!!
Check this out !
http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-nord/2012/09/18/des-voleurs-de-metaux-tentent-de-s-introduire-dans-la-centrale
If its in French voulez vous translate sil vous plait?
“Steal the metals” ?
What, off the roof ????
Dopey.
Translation…a few posts above.
But its via Gooble Translate….so it’s probably a few mad verbs in there !!!
Roland,
This article is timed/dated 17.46 on Wed 5th Sapt and by translating the passage of Day 1, it says the younger girl was 1 of the dead in the car
http://www.lemessager.fr/Actualite/Chablais/2012/09/05/article_messager_1623629.shtml
Is this a mis-translation?
@ Dopey
Are you sure about that? and it’s not just something were you have filled in the blanks and though “oh yeah, that’s a bit strange, but hey, they must mean this….”
Big old house inhabited by La Famille Schutz somewhere here. bit like Claygate.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=%22255+chemin+des+Bl%C3%A2ches,+Grignon%22&ie=UTF8&ll=45.637395,6.360644&spn=0.000955,0.001725&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=255+Chemin+des+Blaches,+73200+Grignon,+Savoie,+Rh%C3%B4ne-Alpes,+France&t=h&z=19
Not on street view.
@anders @James What would be the repercussions if a senior, credible person – a Govt Minister or well-known Chief Constable, say – came out in public and stated that the UK state assassinates individuals, Ian Hurst (MI6) was tasked with watching/finding ‘steaknife’ but his job was hampered by News of The World.NOTW hired Southern Investigations to watch Hurst.Why? Well question is who asked SI to spy on a spy? Murdoch employed SI to burgle homes of MET officers/MP’s/Ministers to gather dirt. If they wanted to speak out things would be made difficult for them. SI was run by Johnathen Rees who also worked for Kroll assoc. So private mobs are spying on Military spies which makes things very confusing.Almost immpossible conditions for a public servant to speak out,but my point is that it may not be SS who are keeping the lid on annecy but Media groups who employ companies like Southern Investigations and Kroll associates. Sorry if this is off topic or just stuff you guys already know.
Thanks James
and
@ roland
@ Dopey
Are you sure about that? and it’s not just something were you have filled in the blanks and though “oh yeah, that’s a bit strange, but hey, they must mean this….”
………………..
Sure about what Roland?
@Straw44berry
Let’s take it that it’s not a mistranslation
So anomalies in the initial reporting of the story that I still would like answers to are:
Straw’s “girl one of the dead in the car”
Wasn’t it initially reported that one of the dead women had no external clues as to cause of death; no bullet wounds?
From the photo of the car:
What is going on with the roof of the car? Half the roof rack is not there.
I’ll think of some more in a moment…….tbc
@ Dopey
“missing” child from campsite scenario.
“Copper, bronze and champagne”
There’s an old article of a metal theft (in July), but that’s from a recycling depot.
NOT a nuclear plant !
In Leprogres
The four men were found to 6:30 p.m. by the security department of the site when they cut up the mesh defining the first security zone of the nuclear power plant.
Mis en fuite par le Peloton spécialisé de protection de la gendarmerie (PSPG) chargé de surveiller la centrale, les quatre hommes ont finalement été interpellés au péage autoroutier de Reventin-Vaugris, situé à une dizaine de kilomètres de la centrale, une demi-heure plus tard. Put to flight by the Platoon specialized police protection (PSPG) to monitor the plant, the four men were eventually arrested in highway toll Reventin-Vaugris, located ten kilometers from the plant, half an hour later.
Entendus par la brigade de gendarmerie de Vienne, ils auraient expliqué avoir eu l’intention de dérober des métaux. Heard by the gendarmerie in Vienna, said they would have intended to steal metals.
could just be “nicking scap”. But is there “scap” at a Nuclear Plant ?
@Straw
Translation is good
Three bodies were found in the car, including a young child, according to a source close to the investigation. Nearby, was also discovered a cyclist, also dead, and a young girl, alive but seriously injured.
Trois corps se trouvaient dans cette voiture, dont celui d’un jeune enfant, selon une source proche de l’enquête. A proximité, a aussi été découvert un cycliste, mort également, ainsi qu’une jeune fille, vivante, mais grièvement blessée.
@Ro
Wasn’t it initially reported that one of the dead women had no external clues as to cause of death; no bullet wounds?
Yes
… or rather they said they didn’t know how she died
@dopey interesting report of the attempted theft and not too far from our original area of interest.
@ Ferrer
Thank you for that.
So why is nobody discussing these lines anymore? Everybody clear on what happened?
I am not getting invloved in the Hafnium discussions and the “I’m a better armchair nuclear physicist than you and this is why, blah, blah blah……
The nuclear links to the story are blatantly obvious, even to a blind man.
Anything nuclear is pretty high up on the levels of secrecy that the SS use:
Secret
Top Secret
Nuclear secret
or should that be
Nuclear sceret
Top secret
Secret
anyway, you know what I mean.
Nuclear is nuclear.
6.30pm …and you decide to break into a Nuclear Power Plant.
Even the “back woods Easter Europeans” aren’t that daft, surely.
Are these the “Le Harveys” ???
Roland
“I am not getting invloved in the Hafnium”
Fair enough.
But did you read the French newspaper report I just posted (link and translation provided)