My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@Nuid 3379 ?
Have i missed a previous mention,but exraf guy was,in his own words a “phantom pilot” – get it?!
@roger the dodger
@anders I didn’t dodge the question. If I was walking up the hill and saw a child who had been shot in the shoulder wobbling about the place, I’m not sure that my first thought would be OMG she’s been shot.
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Your second sentence up to the comma states you KNEW shed been shot, you say so! 🙂
Looking at the map, BM could probably have seen her from up to 80m away initially. I don’t think it completely absurd that he didn’t think straight away that the girl was shot.
I think the in the normal scheme of things there would have been a lot less alibis for BM being there. If he had flown out from the UK days before and had no prior association with the area…neighbours saying it was a last minute holiday decision by BM… he had never cycled seriously before. All these signs would be there if he was a handler.
My view is that it is more likley the location was determined by SM’s workplace in Ugine, rather than BM’s ownership of his house.
Yes I have brought this up before – the differences between the eyewitnesses does not worry me – it the the fact the second one was not mentioned at the time the first (Brett) was brought up. And more problematically the narrative about Brett’s eyewitness account made no mention of Phillipe. Even more problematic is that it seems in the original narrative Brett definably called the emergency services then the story changed to Phillipe – well maybe.
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It’s ALL PROBLEMATIQUE because it is a FAIRYTALE ™ and fairytales rarely make sense in the REAL WORLD ™ 🙂
@anders7777
Not necessarily a total lie. Just suggests he was coached to turn his original testimony into more TV friendly testimony once he knew about the 4 year old. What is interesting is I believe he was always very specific in numbers. He never said things normal people say like a “few” or “about half a dozen” or “several”. It was always a number or range of numbers even when he claimed not to know things like the number in the car that pasted him “could have been 1 or 10” It was as if some cack handed psychologist told him always to be precise or use numbers to make yourself more credible. I think not.
@roger the dodger
You’re over egging the pudding, just like someone else we know!!! 🙂
How about location determined by both? Or rather, house location determined by factory location?
@anders7777
Not necessarily a total lie. Just suggests he was coached to turn his original testimony into more TV friendly testimony once he knew about the 4 year old. What is interesting is I believe he was always very specific in numbers. He never said things normal people say like a “few” or “about half a dozen” or “several”. It was always a number or range of numbers even when he claimed not to know things like the number in the car that pasted him “could have been 1 or 10″ It was as if some cack handed psychologist told him always to be precise or use numbers to make yourself more credible. I think not.
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Yes he was talking in metres, most real Brits say yards!
He was recalling the measurements on diagrams on a blackboard at Legoland, positions of the bike and Sylvain, all the rest – he wouldn’t get into RADA, that’s for sure! 🙂
The measurement IN METRES would have been given to SIS by SDECE. 🙂
@anders
>Your second sentence up to the comma states you KNEW shed been shot, you say so!
No it doesn’t say that I knew she had been shot. I’m surprised you can’t understand the point I’m making whatever about agreeing with it.
I thought RAFman was a Kiwi (see earlier on this thread or the previous). So ‘sibling’ could be normal language for him as it is for Americans.
Draw a map of io (moon of jupiter) and (because it is so volcanic) it will be ‘obsolete’ the next day – in other words?!
@Anders7777 19 Sep, 2012 – 4:19 pm
‘The measurement IN METRES would have been given to SIS by SDECE.’
That may be a leap too far. BM is supposed to be a Kiwi and NZ has been fully metric since 1976.
However I think your analysis above is as likely as any other that’s been advanced, or not.
@ferret
PS. Another thought, the idea of BM’s “holiday home” being a cover for surveillance also explains why BM would bother to tell us in the interview that he’d spent the morning doing DIY on the house, as he normally did. Who gives a flying one what he did every morning??? Or even on that morning? Best guess – it’s a cover story to explain why he’s there, because it’s over-egging the pudding. If he has a holiday home there he doesn’t need to explain why he’s there at all…
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Agreed – apparently SAH had been going to the same camp dies for year’s, do makes sense to have a safe house for the handler nearby to Sylvain, IF he was providing stuff for the Brits. Probably used the same RV in years gone by, all three. Excellent cover for BM. The local cycling club too, where he could debrief Sylvain on rides in the countryside.
It all FITZ ™ 😉
And if SAH was turned at his pilgimage to Qom, very near Tehran, just 97 miles away, he could do a century there! 🙂
Qom (Persian: Qom [ɢom], also known as Q’um or Ghom)[1] is a city in Iran. It lies 156 kilometres (97 mi) by road southwest of Tehran and is the capital of Qom Province. At the 2006 census, its population was 957,496, in 241,827 families.[2] It is situated on the banks of the Qom River.
Then the rumours I posted at the start could be sound, an Israeli Kidon team does the biz, or MKO are hired by BiBi to do the biz.
Same thing, and MKO could account for the sloppiness with Zainab.
Inside Israel’s Secret Wars: Mossad’s Elite “Kidon Killers …
http://www.globalresearch.ca/inside-israel-s- …
11 Jul 2012 – http://www.globalresearch.ca/inside-israel-s-secret-wars-mossad- … they basically hired people with Iranian or dual nationalities. … of the CIA-backed MKO terrorists in the nuclear assassinations …
Elite killers kill at large for Kidon, Mossad « Set You Free …
http://www.setyoufreenews.com/…/elite-killers- …
11 Jul 2012 – A political analyst says Israel’s intelligence agency, Mossad, in cahoots with MKO terrorists, … basically hired people with Iranian or dual nationalities,” the analyst stated.
Human Rights & Legal
http://www.habilian.ir/en/Human…/Page-10.ht...
Results 91 – 100 of 185 – The American advocates have been well paid, hired through their speaking agencies and collecting fees of … MKO, part of US-Israeli warmonger campaign …
@Anders
But Brett has a New Zealand background n’est pas? I am sure they are less metric adverse than the Brits. Also the military use metric surely too.
“I was pointing to the reports who said the mother was 77…so if she were also a dentist she would not have been your average woman in Iraq 57 years ago by training as a dentist.” Katie at 9:30am on 19/9/12.
But remember that under successive secular Iraqi regimes – no matter how repressive and bloody they were, politically – women in Iraq had access to full educational opportunities. There are many female Iraqi dentists/doctors/architects, etc. in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. If she was 77 years old, and presumably retired from dental practice, and assuming she wasn’t a ‘mature student’, she’d have trained as a dentist in the late 1950s/early 1960s.
“UNESCO reports[citation needed] that prior to the first Gulf War in 1991 Iraq had one of the best educational performances in the region. Primary school Gross Enrollment Rate was 100% and literacy levels were high.” [from Wikipedia]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Iraq
In Iran, the Shah certainly expanded education – one good thing he did – and the Islamist theocracy expanded education even further – one good thing they did. So, likewise, it is entirely feasible for there be lots and lots of Iranian dentists in that age-group (and younger of course).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Iran
Kiwis have been metric since the 1970s, I think. I am still struggling with imperial 😉
@Anders
But Brett has a New Zealand background n’est pas? I am sure they are less metric adverse than the Brits. Also the military use metric surely too.
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This is true, I am not a flyer, but would imagine all instruments are metric – can anyone confirm.
Also maybe they use the word sibling in NZ, but he did leave a long time ago.
@ferret
PS. Another thought, the idea of BM’s “holiday home” being a cover for surveillance also explains why BM would bother to tell us in the interview that he’d spent the morning doing DIY on the house, as he normally did. Who gives a flying one what he did every morning??? Or even on that morning? Best guess – it’s a cover story to explain why he’s there, because it’s over-egging the pudding. If he has a holiday home there he doesn’t need to explain why he’s there at all…
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Agreed – apparently SAH had been going to the same camp dies for year’s, do makes sense to have a safe house for the handler nearby to Sylvain, IF he was providing stuff for the Brits. Probably used the same RV in years gone by, all three. Excellent cover for BM. The local cycling club too, where he could debrief Sylvain on rides in the countryside.
It all FITZ ™
And if SAH was turned at his pilgimage to Qom, very near Tehran, just 97 miles away, he could do a century there!
Qom (Persian: Qom [ɢom], also known as Q’um or Ghom)[1] is a city in Iran. It lies 156 kilometres (97 mi) by road southwest of Tehran and is the capital of Qom Province. At the 2006 census, its population was 957,496, in 241,827 families.[2] It is situated on the banks of the Qom River.
Then the rumours I posted at the start could be sound, an Israeli Kidon team does the biz, or MKO are hired by BiBi to do the biz.
Same thing, and MKO could account for the sloppiness with Zainab.
Inside Israel’s Secret Wars: Mossad’s Elite “Kidon Killers”
11 Jul 2012 – http://www.globalresearch.ca/inside-israel-s-secret-wars-mossad- … they basically hired people with Iranian or dual nationalities. … of the CIA-backed MKO terrorists in the nuclear assassinations …
Elite killers kill at large for Kidon, Mossad « Set You Free …
11 Jul 2012 – A political analyst says Israel’s intelligence agency, Mossad, in cahoots with MKO terrorists, … basically hired people with Iranian or dual nationalities,” the analyst stated.
Human Rights & Legal
Results 91 – 100 of 185 – The American advocates have been well paid, hired through their speaking agencies and collecting fees of … MKO, part of US-Israeli warmonger campaign …
@ferret
>How about location determined by both? Or rather,
>house location determined by factory location?
Yes. I had thought of that, but the implications are then that he set up base to be close to Mollier/factory which would appear excessive and at first glance would put him working for the wrong side. Yes it can be explained, by double-agents, counter espionage etc., but explanations are relatively convoluted making them less likely that the straight forward explanation. Possible but less likely than scenario of BM not being involved given facts.
Have you guys never heard Captain BA drink-problem announce we are now cruising at 30,000 FEET !
Imperial I think is the measure of choice
@anders
>Your second sentence up to the comma states you KNEW shed been shot, you say so!
No it doesn’t say that I knew she had been shot. I’m surprised you can’t understand the point I’m making whatever about agreeing with it.
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I beg to disagree! 🙂
To correct myself I think that actually the air force do still use feet for height … indeed I think air altitude is one of the few things that have not been metricated worldwide.. only in some countries is it metricated. Russia, China, North Korea, and Mongolia are metric and other seems to allow either (Sweden )
Yes. I had thought of that, but the implications are then that he set up base to be close to Mollier/factory which would appear excessive and at first glance would put him working for the wrong side. Yes it can be explained, by double-agents, counter espionage etc., but explanations are relatively convoluted making them less likely that the straight forward explanation. Possible but less likely than scenario of BM not being involved given facts.
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You speak in a very clipped .mil .spook tone roger (mum’s the word)! 🙂
In other words … don’t follow the ball (get lost in the detail(s)) … consider,instead, the ‘pattern of the play’… ‘phantom pilot’ turns up just at the moment that …
@Anders
But Brett has a New Zealand background n’est pas? I am sure they are less metric adverse than the Brits. Also the military use metric surely too.
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My apologies, on an iPhone daaahn le pub, so a tad difficult whilst researching too. But I accept the metric and sibling points.
However I am most definitely with strawberry, RAFman ™ = a pack of lies.
Aircrews generally use “feet”.
…and miles.
The Chinese and Russians use metres !
Then again he was talking about distance “on land”.
May there he “has a disconnect”.
Who knows.
But I am trying to work out if I have ever staggered around with my sibling when I was a child !
….especially if my sibling couldn’t be seen !
Didnt BM leave NZ in the 70s? Siblings used in OZ???
At any rate he has been well and truly rumbled here! 🙂
“New Zealand background n’est pas?”
…and ex RAF Fast Jets…and Commercial…and Check Pilot.