My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
It all FITZ ™
And if SAH was turned at his pilgimage to Qom, very near Tehran, just 97 miles away, he could do a century there!
Qom (Persian: Qom [ɢom], also known as Q’um or Ghom)[1] is a city in Iran. It lies 156 kilometres (97 mi) by road southwest of Tehran and is the capital of Qom Province. At the 2006 census, its population was 957,496, in 241,827 families.[2] It is situated on the banks of the Qom River.
Then the rumours I posted at the start could be sound, an Israeli Kidon team does the biz, or MKO are hired by BiBi to do the biz.
Same thing, and MKO could account for the sloppiness with Zainab.
Riki.
None of that makes any sense. Apples and oranges.
“I dont see your point on being Shia at its not Iran that would provide a visa or permission to go to Iran, especially as I dont think the UK have many ways to track or keep tabs on someone in that country, where as Iraq would be a different matter with infastructure and personnel already there.
Im sure Iran would also have a go if they thought he was an asset and worth turning!
My mate told me a story of being in Israel on a Kabutz (he was Jewish and had family in Israel) and he had an interview with an Intelligence officer there”.
He (like Iran) are both Shia.
Qom is a pretty damn important palce…if you’re a Shia.
A bit like “The Bull’s Head” is to Flanders.
A Jewish guy going to the “K’s”…is a TOTALLY different matter.
Also there is another point with “your friend that went to the K’s”.
Did he serve his service ? They will and do check…and if he was “at or over that age” and hadn’t…he would have found himself doing it !
Now Flanders writing “JAmes is a spook” is just bizarre (especialy as it’s all the time now)
What Flanders forgets…is that I…and some of the people on here, have actually been around the world…and actually work, still going around the world….and we’re not sat in a pub, trying to convince “others” what ever his (or their) current “go around is”.
I find this “case” very strange. But would invite intelligent debate on such. And not the education of “loons” on why a Shia would go to Qom ????
Crackers !
If RAFman was a spook would they really have wheeled him out for an interview?
What’s the spook etiquette if a spook who’s tailing somebody witesses them being taken out by someone else?
Sorry that was worded incorrectly it was the British Government that refused his visa to Iraq so it would have been the same for Iran, im sure Iran would have had to stamped and authorised the paper work also.
And no I havent been to the Middle East but because you have (rsay you have) then that may put you in a better position to advise so instead of jumping down people throats why dont you contribute the the posts and pass on your experience of this instead of spending 90% slagging off Anders or others.
The only reason the majority of people are on here posting is to get some answers and try solve this puzzle, it is obvious that some people would rather not contribute, confuse issues and get on peoples back, id suggest post if you have something to contibute period.
Agreed – apparently SAH had been going to the same camp site for years, so makes sense to have a safe house for the handler nearby to Sylvain, IF he was providing stuff for the Brits. Probably used the same RV in years gone by, all three. Excellent cover for BM. The local cycling club too, where he could debrief Sylvain on rides in the countryside.
It all FITZ ™
And if SAH was turned at his pilgimage to Qom, very near Tehran, just 97 miles away, he could do a century there!
Qom (Persian: Qom [ɢom], also known as Q’um or Ghom)[1] is a city in Iran. It lies 156 kilometres (97 mi) by road southwest of Tehran and is the capital of Qom Province. At the 2006 census, its population was 957,496, in 241,827 families.[2] It is situated on the banks of the Qom River.
Then the rumours I posted at the start could be sound, an Israeli Kidon team does the biz, or MKO are hired by BiBi to do the biz.
Same thing, and MKO could account for the sloppiness with Zainab.
@Dopey if RAF man screwed up he’d be on his own!
@Anders if you can explain your post – or just put in plain english then maybe I could have a crack at matching up some theories…
“he could do a century there!” What does this mean ?
MKO? A previous link explained MEK not MKO what’s this ?
Dopey,
I though in the interview with Mr Martin, he said they called (PD called) after they had been up again.
PD going “down” to make the call ?
Correct me if I am wrong
You look into the phantom pilot’s background … you find a ‘muscular christian’ new zealand background … much boasting of sporting achievement on school/college site … and ‘founding father’ figure was … decorated (military) scottish minister … and … (where does brit establishment ‘recruit’ …?) …
@Anders if you can explain your post – or just put in plain english then maybe I could have a crack at matching up some theories…
“he could do a century there!” What does this mean ?
MKO? A previous link explained MEK not MKO what’s this ?
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A century is a hundred mile bike ride.
MKO is described by Vermillion, and is linked in my post about Qom.
Gotta try harder watcher, letting the side down old chap. 😉
MKO / MEK definitely look like suspects.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/02/israel-and-proxy-terrorism/252971/
http://larouchepac.com/node/22207
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/859464/nbc_news%3A_prominent_supporters_of_iranian_terror_group_under_investigation
http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/02/09/10354553-israel-teams-with-terror-group-to-kill-irans-nuclear-scientists-us-officials-tell-nbc-news?lite
@Anders – not being a cyclist I do not equate a unit of ‘time’ measurement to = a bike ride.
The link from Vermillion = http://www.salon.com/2012/02/10/israel_mek_and_state_sponsor_of_terror_groups/
mentions MEK NOT MKO anywhere in that article.
[Mod/Jon: some o/t abuse snipped]
@ james
Nope he definitely said the call was made before they went up. On the way down they were passed by the cops and ambulances.
PS c u next Tuesday
Was it really that freakin hard to paste this ?
Israel and the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, known by various acronyms, including MEK, MKO and PMI.
@watcher
MKO and MEK are well used acronyms for the Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization or the People’s Mujahedin of Iran. Same thing. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Mujahedin_of_Iran
Dopey,
Re next Tuesday, we’ll have to use route plan 64b.
Sqwark 7009. I’ll have “talisman” on.
Did he really say that.
I suppose you would…if you were asked to…in good french, but bad use of French (which is another thing ! Why comment on that in your first interview to The Press).
“Ee said dere wash a shouting, sure I knew vat ee meant, but ee had a very bod infection on de word shouting” !
Crazy.
@Dopey if RAF man screwed up he’d be on his own!
=====
Only if behind enemy lines. If captured a swap may go down, If still alive. Quid pro quo / in this case it sounds like an enormous cock-up.
A hit went down without a priori SIS knowledge.
Culprits are identified but let off scot free = Israel or team paid by Israel. Same thing.
Same thing happened after 911. All flights grounded in the USA but the bin Ladens were allowed back to Saudi, and the Dancing Israelis filming the towers come down via controlled demolition were allowed back to Tel Aviv, where they appeared on tee vee.
In this case damage limitation was a priority and a FAIRYTALE ™ was spun to protect Israel in the lead up to an Iran attack / cannot have such a dire diplomatic incident for the warmongers.
Besides they were only wogs, innit.
Sylvain is collateral.
Sweep.Under.Carpet
James and Co. are the sanitisers.
Simple.
@Vermillion
I appreciate the answer , but why post 3 links to MEK in answer to someone asking about MKO.
Please don’t answer this specific post, there is enough chaff on this thread already.
I just don’t see why some people on here have to be so awkward, or maybe just scared of saying mujahedin out loud ? FFS
MODS !
“Besides they were only wogs, innit.” = Anders 7777 direct quote 19 Sep 6.07pm.
Can we get rid of this racist sociopath alchy please?
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That is what SIS think if them.
Why?
Because we kill them. Or perhaps you don’t remember the two Iraq wars?
[Mod/Jon: removed off-topic points about trolling]
http://www.globalresearch.ca/inside-israel-s-secret-wars-mossad-s-elite-kidon-killers/?print=1
These facts aside, it rather seems sort of naïve to disregard the role of the CIA-backed MKO terrorists in the nuclear assassinations and give all the credit to the Kidon agents. There is solid evidence which evinces the MKO role in the assassination of the Iranian scientists.
American commentator Richard Silverstein believes that the primary source of income for the terrorist Mojahedin-e Khalq Organization (MKO) comes from the assassinations the group conducts within the Iranian soil at the behest of the Mossad. He argues that “If you’re a terrorist on behalf of Israel, as MKO is, then you’re kosher as far as (US-based Israeli publicist) Dershowitz is concerned. And your money is golden. Where does the money come from? Possibly from the Iran assassinations the MKO performs on Mossad’s behalf, which undoubtedly pay well. Then there’s the possibility that the USD 400-million Bush allocated for destabilizing Iran in 2007 has found its way either to the MKO or Mossad (or both)”
More to the point, the CIA works in the same satanic league with the Mossad and MKO. Time and again, the officials in Washington have encouraged and even confessed to the killings of the Iranian nuclear scientists.
Former US senator Rick Santorum callously described the assassination of Iranian scientists as “wonderful,” threatening that those who work for Iran’s nuclear program “are not safe.”
“On occasion, scientists working on the nuclear program in Iran turn up dead. I think that’s a wonderful thing, candidly.”
He also said, “I think we should send a very clear message that if you are a scientist from Russia, North Korea, or from Iran and you are going to work on a nuclear program to develop a bomb for Iran, you are not safe.”
Also, former Bush administration ambassador to the UN John Bolton said on Fox News that the killing of an Iranian scientist and sanctions against Iran constitute only “half-measures in the quest to stunt Iran’s nuclear ambitions”.
Former White House Speaker Newt Gingrich has called for covert action, including “taking out their scientists” and cyberwarfare.
Quotations of this nature are legion and all these facts reinforce the idea that Washington has been making clandestine efforts to sabotage Iran’s nuclear energy program in cahoots with Tel Aviv and their lackey, i.e the MKO.
[Mod/Jon: off-topic discussion about trolling removed]
On another note anyone else miss reports that Al Hilli had also worked for this lot? Just seen it on a forum
http://www.surreynanosystems.com/
I’m disappointed with any one on here that could read and accept the racist term w*g without commenting against, thought some of the commenters on here had more intelligence
[Mod/Jon: this will be sorted, thanks]
Dopey…
But we don’t know what areas Al Hilli worked in.
I hab=ve looked..and I can see.
I have looked at their “pics”, trying to see where he may pop up.
There’s nothing (that I can see).
I keep thinking there has to be a “solid” link.
Either with Mollier and Al Hilli.
This is “no” normal shooting, we can all see that. But what links have we.
What can we put down and say “that’s a link”.
I thibnk I understand what Anders7777 was saying at 6:07pm today – 19.9.12 – it seems clear to me that he was being ironic/sarcastic and that he was attributing racist attitudes to those (whoever they might have been) who thought it was ‘okay’ for the Al-Hillis to be killed. I have not seen all of Anders7777’s posts (there are so many, that would require a thesis!). I do not consider his usage in that post to have been racist. That is my view.
As regulars here will know, though it not my prerogative necessarily to do so, I do confront posters when I think they are positing racist views. I do not think Anders7777 was being racist in that post. I don’t know whether or not there were other posts of relevance. Also, the fact that Anders7777 has posted so much on this subject suggests a sense of outrage at the murders of this family and the cyclist, which I think is something that we might acknowledge – obviously there are many others – James and many others – who have posted a lot on this thread for the same reason. Good on you all.
Isn’t it quite likely that both SAL and SM are working for Iran and are being financial rewarded for their efforts. SM is passing material/know-how to SAL and SM is bringing it to Iran on his visits to Qom.
Let’s say UK services are tracking SAL. They the tip off the French. Soon the world knows and Mossad are saying if you don’t do something about it, we will…
It’s likely that a lot of the answers will be on SAL’s and SM’s electronic trails on their phones/PC’s. The closer the police get to the truth the more they will realise that SAL and SM were not the good guys. They realise that it really was a gangland killing of a different nature, thereby reducing their incentive to solve it (also knowing that it wouldn’t be easy without support from MI6, which may not be forthcoming).
Could it be that straightforward?
Sweet complain about it through the right Channels then,I dont agree with it but above all he contributes to ideas on the forum!
If this had been done a week ago we wouldnt have had to waste the last 20 posts!
Phew, you lot are giving me a lot of work to do. To some extent this thread is un-moderated, since there is simply too much to read through and work out whether an one response or another was provoked. However:
@anders7777 – please try to be less certain about your theories, and more open to other people’s ideas. Also, your quote-within-a-quote syntax (a line of equals signs) is confusing, and is bulking out threads with too much text. Simply address someone by their @username and [the time of their posting] – this is much more succinct.
@james – to ignore a troublesome poster, you have to avoid mentioning/addressing them entirely. Repeatedly posting “I am going to ignore you again” unfortunately doesn’t work. Stick to facts/theories etc, and ignore people who are provocative.
All: please avoid name-calling and unprovable suggestions of bad faith or security state involvement. Be as scientific as possible, but be open to other ideas. Clark was entirely right earlier – there is some chunks of sober analysis, which is swamped considerably by waffle and pettiness.
Again, posts that don’t substantially address the topic will be deleted.
“The Irish are the blacks of Europe, Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland, and the North Siders are the blacks of Dublin … so say it loud — I’m black and I’m proud!”
Now let’s move on.
I mean it’s good that people here are alert to the use of words and so on. But it’s how words are used, the context, the syntax, the intention, etc. that is key, rather than simply the appearance of a word. I accept Anders7777’s explanation and I think he was being anti-racist. Let’s move on, I would suggest.
Ex-raf guy / phantom pilot who said ‘…’