My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
The term you used is and never will be acceptable to my ears, regardless of context. I find it even more astonishing that no-one seems to want to pick you up on this, you are posting on the blog of a human rights activist!!!
Frankly I’ve had days of wading through self righteous effluent from one person. Yes I can ignore these comments, and do on the most part but not racism. Not in my name !
Jon, you are Atlas-on-wheels.
If I may venture a suggestion here….. for those who are easily offended we have a saying, ‘if you can’t stand the heat then get out of the kitchen’. 🙂
Anders…and Phil T
It is important that the “major” comments on here arent spooks.
Lets go your path..and say they were.
They are here to “mis direct” ???
Mis direct who ?
People that “can’t” research on their own ???
Seriously ?
I think that most are drawn here because if “James says” whatever, people will “check” ????
You’re “he’s a spook” for however number of post you write that..is irrelevant.
And Anders…we all read the Newspapers…and guess what, “new news”, no one on here believes them.
That’s why they are on here.
Now either ….go away…or use the brain power you have to actually “help” in finding whats going on.
All we have so far…is damn little. And I dont think that is good.
Watcher. I acknowledge your strong feelings on this and I understand. I’ve used all these words (‘wogs’, ‘niggers’, ‘Pakis’, ‘darkies’ and expletives in a number of languages) and more, in my work. Yes, one must take care with them. It’s HOW one uses them that is important. If you’d like to check out more, feel free to read one of my novels, ‘Psychoraag’, set in a South Asian radio station in Glasgow, which has an interesting glossary of terms at the back. Best wishes, and solidarity.
@ james
This is “no” normal shooting, we can all see that. But what links have we.
What can we put down and say “that’s a link”.
…………………..
Well we’ve got barely anything have we…not helped by the fact that there’s barely any internet trail for Al Hilli and his family and their history.
I’m still particularly interested in Saad’s father and his business dealings, but we have next to nothing for him either. I’m tending to think the whole lot of them (father, Saad and accountant brother) were shady where legit business enterprises were concered, hence the money but lack of legit (and/or officially profitable) companies they were involved in – front companies that don’t do any trading plus legit cover jobs to show to any observers how they earn a living but they earned far more through “extracurricular” activities they hid well.
…and Katie.
Just to be “funny” “heat” “kitchen” etc…
Didnt you post something about Mollier funeral…but you looked at the wrong pictures ?
Now sense must prevail.
Or Anders, I will right that email to Craig.
People..have damn sense.
And of course, there is an entire litany of terms that deprecate Irish/Catholic people, and which are prevalent in the west of Scotland. One would not be able to write a convincing narrative – a fiction, say – set in working class Glasgow without reference to some of these terms/dynamics. Using them in this way opens them up to scrutiny and calls upon the reader to question their provenance.
Thanks Suhayl.
I suggest everyone gets back to **the debate itself**, since I am deleting large swathes of pettiness and off-topic material. It was clear from the context of @anders7777’s post that he was not making a racist remark – just that British authorities are sometimes disdainful of foreigners. Please let it lie.
The Al-Hilli family, where’s the story at now?
Sulhayl, we are not all co-writing a book here.
The context was not clear to me, what is clear to me that the individual concerned thinks it’s fine to use derogatory racist terms.
I find this grossly offensive.
Is the News blackout because of Forums like this? we have to find another way of finding information ourselves, make enquiries……….test the waters!
Dopey.
Senior Saad got out of Iraq.
I can see why (non Ba’ath or Sunni) so he lands in London.
And does what ?
He buys a place in Mijas. I know that area, but it’s not “great” what he buys,
But he also gets the house in Surrey (know that to) and now that’s worth alot of money.
How does he get his money ?
Or rather…what contacts has he got ? And could they help the (clearly clever) Al Hilli Jnr ???
Are we looking at the Swiss case again ???
No James, they were the Hearses…with a police escort, what we didn’t prove was whether they were on their way to the funeral, my feeling is they were.
No James, they were the Hearses…with a police escort, what we didn’t prove was whether they were on their way to the funeral, my feeling is they were.
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Small scale VIP send off, sounds like.
@ james
And allegedly homes in France and Switzerland too.
That pic of hearses was labelled as 6th September ! Therefore not a gendarme funeral escort, the were off the morgue
Watcher.
It was the private ambulance as you know.
@nuid
what did you start here?! No comment from Craig yet. I guess he can sum it up in a few words.
@Kempe
“troofer”
I guess BM will come back onto the kind BBC to clarify. (not)
@ferret The GM was allegedly Al-Allaf, not Al-Safar/Saffar. But on the other hand Mrs Al-Hilli was Al-Saffar not Al-Hilli.
@James, @anders7777 – you are still rising to the bait. Most of the provocations are now deleted anyway – so, back on topic please 🙂
Spoilsport! 🙂
So Watcher, when they took Mollier to the funeral place of rest are you really saying they wouldn’t give him a police escort ?
I’m pretty sure they would as they insisted on a ‘temporary’ burial…meaning they haven’t finished with him yet…… so no need to split hairs on that one.
Dopey…
And where in France ? No noe knows
And on the Swiss side of the border ?? Little either.
But thats what they tell us.
Remember a bit back we were saying about contractors rates of pay ?
And his Co didnt seem to be taking that nuch.
Well the CEO’s he’s worked here and it’s very sad PR relaease said he’d been there a long time.
He wasnt on 35 an hour…
So where did his cash go to ?
And, what other cash was coming in ?
Katie…
Re the funeral, did you read (and see the pictures) in Le Dauphine ?
Have a look !
Jon…
Not unless you kept them !
Splash the cash and eyes are on you. If Saad had cash to splash he wasnt splashing it. Neither is his brother – living in a £95k flat, yet allegedly joint owner of the Al Hilli home. A 53 year old accountant in a £95k flat? He must be a cr@p accountant…or…..
IMO this lot preferred to keep a low profile.
Dopey…
My son, get in there !
The old saying “follow the cash”.
Jut been thinking that way myself.
Next post…
Dopey they may have been property rich & cash poor:
“He said he was unaware of any feud between the brothers. It emerged yesterday, however, that Saad had taken out a “caveat” on the will of his father Khadim, who died last year in Spain.
The formal notice delays claims over the inheritance. There are few signs that Khadim had significant assets. He had lived in a studio flat a short distance from Malaga, which he had bought for about £40,500 more than a decade ago.
The £800,000 house in which the brothers had grown up had been transferred jointly to them by their father in 2003. When their father died, Zaid had apparently wanted to sell but Saad did not.
A French press report also referred to an additional argument over family deposits in overseas tax havens, quoting information passed to French detectives by British police. It was reported the father had also left property in Baghdad.”
http://www.express.co.uk/features/view/346086/Do-police-already-know-killer-in-alps-family-massacre-
Anyone have a Times subscription? It always gets ignored by web sleuths.
I notice a photo I haven’t seen of some campsite neighbours, at Al-Arabiya
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/09/11/237305.html
Neghbour Ann-Marie and her boyfriend Jean.
As David Brown wrote in the Australian (Times)
Anne Marie Souderman and her friend Jan Janssen stayed close to the Hillis at the Europa site and said they believed the family had intended to remain for the week.
@vermillion
OK – up until now I have believed that Brett Martin was telling the truth – OK not the whole truth but maybe 90- 95 % and was also withholding some stuff – perhaps for “operational reasons” to do with the investigation. The more I think about it the more absurd it seems. Why not mention the Frenchman Philippe D originally. Why does his testimony not match – there is the fact that eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable but that does not explain not mentioning him originally. We still do not know who called the emergency services for sure. But that also begs the question if either Brett’s or Phillipe’s testimony has been invented or even tweaked why not make them match more closely. It is more the late “appearance” of Phillipe D more that the discrepancies that matter. Why let knowledge of eyewitnesses trickle out one by one? Especially when first reports about the first witness make no mention of the second. Why was Phillipe D erased from the first version of this story and why was it necessary to de-erase him at a later date especially as his testimony only confused things? Unless confusion is the point – everyone concentrates on the scene of crime perhaps at the expense of the wider picture.
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I am sure this is all being done to confuse the issue.
The kill team are being protected by SIS and SDECE and diplomats on both sides.
BM also protected
ERGO
A spy
In that same link above, ” “He took a bulletproof jacket,” said a neighbour who wished to remain anonymous.
“But he joked that if they came for him it would be a knock on the door and then a bullet through the forehead.”