My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
PS: As the article linked above in the current(!) issue of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists (SILEX & Proliferation) points out, some people have just recently woken up to the serious proliferation threat posed by efficient ’boutique’ laser enrichment, that has not yet been addressed by the IAEA, and is therefore theoretically not in contravention of Iran’s commitments under the NPT.
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Residents: There was a previous complaint about new posters, who hadn’t been through all the threads here, cluttering up the, um, workspace with inanities. I had posted comments at the Guardian site in reponse to the deleted post by Janesmith101 highlighted by CM, and these were in turn, um, eliminated in a rather unusual way (just as the thread was itself terminated unusually).
I just thought it might be of some interest to repost the – innocuous – deleted posts here, as an illustration of the strange News Management going on since Wednesday, but apart from the query about R&D at Ugine, I’ll just let you guys get on with it, and occasionally check for developments not covered in the MSM, and possible explanations for the greater-than-usual inefficacy of mainstream churnalists (since this seems to be a good ‘sorting-house’).
(Parting note: nobody seems to have explained the remarkablly short space of time between the French Police’s arrival on the scene and the 20(!)-man ‘military-style’ team ‘from the British Embassy in Paris’ arriving. I guess the obvious answer is that they were tipped off by the RAF cyclist. Perhaps the guy who did the math on the two cyclists can examine the timeline.)
I had thought they said it was a daily route for SM which is normal for keen cyclists in the Alps. My point all along is not that I have any answers – because clearly none of us do – merely that it is very odd that SM has received so little attention. I am not a conspiracy theorist and refuse to believe that the entire international press can be subject to an edict to cover up the truth. I just fear that the Iraqi ancestry of Al-Hilli may be an enormous distraction, concealing nothing. But I could be wrong!
Nuid and Anton… how are you seeing this ?
I think (from what I know), Al-Hissi is the lure.
He’s brought in.
It’s just gone horrible wrong.
“French Cyclist Shot In Forest” would not make The Daily News.
Not for long anyway.
Bluebird said,
‘Silex nuclear technology is exactly a laserbeamer. Of course it is more complicated than that, but it is a particle accelerator with laser technology. That’s exactly how CERN is working. You can use it to create nuclear material for weapons much quicker, cheaper and in much smaller devices than the previous method with centrifuges. If they were experts they likely built a small device in al-hillis garage.’
If Al-Hilli had this knowledge, it would be a logical answer to why he was murdered.
‘Seems to me it is your pet theory which isn’t backed up by the physics. But then I admit I don’t know exactly what “SILEX” is. It is possible we’ve been fed misleading info and there is more relevance than I can see.’
I
Anon, Geronimo, it is evident that areva/cezus was also researching in laser enrichment technologies. They called it ASLIN. However, there isn’t much information about ASLIN and apparently they stopped their research. Perhaps they didn’t stop and did seek info about SILEX? Nobody knows.
Anton.
Agree with you.
And it was said ..and a quote from wife two, that SM was “making a new route”
This is what first “got my attention”.
The reason. I had a Dutch friend here when it happened.
I say “take a picture”, he says “make a picture”.
It is the use of the “correct verb”
The French reportage said “take” a new route (it stuck in my mind).
James very good question. This is why one assumes that a nice simple lying in wait for and assassination of SM was all that was contemplated. Massacre of British family and children? I don’t think that could have been contemplated. But my point is that so far, apart from his ancestry (which is shared by thousands of British people who descend from those who fled Iraq) no one has shown what actual technological threat Al-Hilli could have posed to anyone, but may be I am missing something.
Ambers, go away.
There is actually good work here.
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Not yours, that is a given.
Johhnie cum Lately that looks down upon views of others.
Cf: Icke forum.
Twat.
1) The 7 year old has a fractured shoulder and, has been shot in the shoulder. This points to the child being tortured in front of the parents to extract information from them. Obviously by someone not known to the children. Or else, the children would have been executed too. This behaviour points to a military intelligence gatherer. Such behaviour requires a very special and expensive/rare pathology. Making the family feud scenario highly unlikely.
2) The kind of weapon gives NO indication of Israeli involvement. As someone has already said, espionage is a dirty business. Red herrings are a tool of the trade.
3) Not only Al-Hilli, but also the firm he worked for had been watched by Special Branch; but only at the beginning of The Second Gulf War. Not recently.
4) Espionage can be commercial aswell as state sponsored.
5) An exclusion zone of 1km around a suspect object is vast and, totally uncharacteristic. To my mind, there are only three possible reasons for such an exclusion zone around the Al-Hilli home – a battlefield nuke, a red herring or, to avoid prying eyes whilst something is either removed from (bugging devices) or planted in said property.
6) France is now part of NATO and, would collaborate with NATO efforts to protect the organisation’s interests.
7) http://www.sst-us.com/shop/government-customers
8) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199513/Saad-Al-Hilli-shooting-French-Alps-Extraordinary-life-engineer-victim.html?openGraphAuthor=%2Fhome%2Fsearch.html%3Fs%3D%26authornamef%3DArthur%2BMartin&videoPlayerURL=http%3A%2F%2Fc.brightcove.com%2Fservices%2Fviewer%2Ffederated_f9%3FisVid%3D1%26isUI%3D1%26publisherID%3D1418450360%26playerID%3D72484359001%26domain%3Dembed%26videoId%3D&hasBCVideo=true&BCVideoID=1826984471001 As to links with Iran? Hardly likely, given “…family connections to Saddam Hussein’s Baath Party….”!
9) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/annecy-shootings-familys-good-fortune-may-have-masked-struggles-over-iraqi-inheritance-8118202.html
10) http://rense.com/general62/sci.htm
Maybe it was the Iraqi’s who currently own the Iraqi al-Hilli business? They’re the only private persons who would have immediate access to the sort of trained military personnel who would have been able and willing to carry out such an horrific action. Killing all of the adults/males in a case of disputed rule/ownership is very characteristic of that area of the World. Non-Iraqi born female children would have little future legal call against a firmly established ownership in any Iraqi court too.
Which would not necessarily absolve the RAF guy. Who may well have Iraqi connections himself and, be part of the gang.
I originally thought Le Legion d’Etranger due to the proximity/access to Marseilles. However, the coast is also a very popular point of illegal entry from North Africa/the Mediterranean for arabs, etc. A far more likely point of entry than Switzerland or Italy!
“Nuid that’s an interesting analysis but why would Al-Hilli take his whole family along to a rendezvous like that.”
Perhaps he’d been promising them a trip for days. And wasn’t expecting trouble at the rendezvous. Perhaps he was intending to drive them on elsewhere.
“Al-Hilli doesn’t seem to have any technical expertise of use to anyone, though he was apparently quite good with a screwdriver.”
Didn’t he have an aerial satellite photo firm? He seems to have had experience in a multitude of disciplines, anyway. According to this thread.
anders7777,
I don’t give a damn who you interact with. But I am not a “newbie arsehole”. I’ve been here about seven years, longer than many. And I know nothing about ballistics, but quoted UTV earlier today: 7.65mm and 10 shots per magazine. Therefore reloaded at least twice. Your 43 bullets came from a highly dubious source, by the way. Somebody added up the shots in each dead victim, one shot to the shoulder in the girl, etc, and ADDED that to the number of casings found. And got 43! Rather silly to say the least.
Hruuurp Ambers
Anders what, in a nutshell, is your view on this matter? Is it possible for you to express that concisely?
@James
I agree, barely imaginable, but this has happened.
Now we seek the truth.
You say “a clinical assassin delivering shots to the head”.
Before or after the “event” ?
As in, shooting 3 adults in different positions with two shots to the head…has to be a hard act (physically) I would think.
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I see you are up to speed.
Anton,
Officially Al-Hilli specialised in aerial/sat recon technology. He’s the sort of person you would expect might have knowledge relevant to the top secret drone the Iranian’s captured.
But that would suggest the CIA rather than Mossad.
That’s just a possibility mind you.
Nuid I see your point but surely aerial satellite technology is pretty low tech and not really much use to anyone.
PPS: Military/intelligence buffs: what might have been the composition and role of a ’20-man military-style’ team ‘arriving from the British embassy’, quite literally out of the sky, almost immediately? They and their arrival and mission haven’t really been discussed anywhere, as far as I can see…
…Though since this seems in some ways to be the first ‘viral’ spy story on the Net, there are probably 10 different theories out there already, if I had the energy to look.
Goodnight and Goodbye!
Anon, Geronimo, typing error. It’s called AVLIS. Sorry for mistyping.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_vapor_laser_isotope_separation
” but surely aerial satellite technology is pretty low tech and not really much use to anyone.”
Except someone with a drone that’s gone in the huff and won’t talk to them just maybe?
@antonnette
Anders what, in a nutshell, is your view on this matter? Is it possible for you to express that concisely?
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I don’t do nutshells dear.
600 + posts and you still ask a dumb ass unanswerable question, eh?
LOL.
Anton…
That is the point.
You said
“no one has shown what actual technological threat Al-Hilli could have posed to anyone”
He (Al Hilli) doesn’t !
That’s the key bit.
He never did.
But if he was working for you…amd you had to catch your man (say your nuclear bloke, what better “bait” to supply ?)
What did Iran capture a couple of weeks ago ?
Going back to Adlene Hicheur, it appears to me he was set up with the allegedly intercepted emails between himself and Al-Qaida in Islamic Maghreb.
It’s quite extraordinary that he was sentenced in May 2012 to “five years in prison for plotting terrorist attacks.” and then on 15 May left prison.
Did MOSSAD plant the emails to get him imprisoned rather than having to assassinate him?
And did the support of his friends and colleagues through the International Support Committee put pressure on the French government to release him straight after his incarceration?
Anton, please see Ruth up above. At 12:20 am.
Good point James. I had not thought of that. But what exactly is the bait that Al-Hilli supplies? I am not sure what you mean about Iran?
Nuid…
Sorry about this I have to keep going backwards to find the key parts…
You said..
Nuid “that’s an interesting analysis but why would Al-Hilli take his whole family along to a rendezvous like that”
I think, well why not ?
He “you” may have not known what was to happen there.
And if your family is there, what could happen.
This man is an Engineer.
I had a friend in MI6…now he is in Lancashire Police Force !
They hired all sorts
They never knew if they were ever “in danger”.
I doubt Al-Hilli did.
And that’s my point (IF I COULD MAKE IT WITH 777 getting in the way !)
Icke @james
Having listened to the “media” garbage it’s clear from day one when the story broke that the news were beginning to say what you’ve all been saying. However it’s clear the DA Notice then kicked in. The news then rolled out the Jewish neighbour, and pointed the finger at the brother. Typical misdirection. Look over there whilst we clean up over here.
I have some questions I don’t think anyone has asked.
Why would someone with a back injury looking to get away for 2 weeks for some rest drive through most of France towing a clapped out caravan? Whilst owning companies and living in a £1m house?????
Guys we are doing better than the international media! I have two questions. Nuid I see your comment re Ruth but the bit I’ve missed is the evidence connecting Al-Hilli to this laser technology. Secondly, James I am being thick but I don’t understand how you see Al-Hilli’s role. Who was he working for?
Anton….
Asd in for you.
I’d love a to have a chat as we would get so damn far (throw in Nuid and we’ll have it cracked).
Iran lately have “claimed” (and they have) captured a downed drone (I’ll find links, but it is there on Google even)
France are well known at selling nuclear secret (I’ll find links for that…and the Jewish airstrike mission in the 90’s)
Now our man SM is ….
Well you can see what I am trying to say.
So I look at the “how”.
How was this done…then it will confirm the “why”.
It is damn amateur really.
Thios is an “incident” not a hit.
I can explain more.
Anton,
That post from ruth was mainly quoting an earlier post of mine. I can’t see any obvious connection between Al-Hilli to laser enrichment research. The French guy might if he is part of more clandestine French research with a slightly more boring cover story of just being a “metallurgist” in nuclear fuel claddings. Would be interesting to know his academic history to help rule this in or out.
Ruth, regarding hicheur: my guess (note: this is just a guess), that he went out of jail after 6 days because he told them what they wanted to hear. They called that “good behaviour” and released him. Most likely they wanted to hear names of people who had this information about such devices as it is Silex.
That is about the time when Al hilli – what neighbours and witnesses told, became nervous and felt threatened.
@nuid at 11:57 pm, thanks. A sensible set of conjectures and questions. Whilst all contributions are welcome, there is nevertheless quite a bit on this thread that is baseless and directionless. Keep everything concise, and avoid stream-of-consciousness posts please 🙂
@anders7777 – “rolled out the Jewish neighbour”? Uh oh. If the powers that be are as powerful as you imply – and in general I’d tend to agree – then they presumably can get anyone to lie on their behalf. Ergo, I think we should steer well clear of explaining things by race – Jewish people, just like everyone else, are not of monolithic opinion.