My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Truth is actually quite simple to state. Who can spell out the truth of this ‘case’ without ‘prolexity’ – tooo manyy words and/ or ‘symbols’?
Mad Hamas
Vs Mad “these” H’americans !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suO4ws5YWz0&NR=1&feature=endscreen
@ james
Meet next door ! First pic down
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=275522
………………
Looking….what am I looking for?
Dopey.
LoL !!……I dare not say what the first laugh was…….for fear of igniting the thread again. 😉
Fiona, at 9:12pm and Anders777 at 9:13pm:
Yes, thanks, I’ve read that theory – wrt the MEK et al – might be, I thought it too, don’t know. If the ‘hit’ were that important and in France too, why rely on the MEK? Plausible deniability? But Israel has never cared much about using UK/Irish, etc. passports, being seen to assassinate people all over the place – in fact it’s used also as a PR/terror tool by the MOSSAD. Mind you, if it was a political assassination, it is entirely possible that the French intel service allowed it to happen, whoever did it.
Yes, Anders 7777, the Israeli ‘art students’ spied – were allowed to spy – on the USA.
What if al Hilli knew and could prove that some intelligence from the MEK/MKO was wrong or fabricated – from satellite imagery perhaps. Would not that be motive. Much of US support for Israel depends upon what the MEK tells them. Or rather they use them as confirmation of what Israel tells them. (we have two sources so it must be true). The MEK would be terrified that their US funding would dry up if they were shown to be liars. Perhaps the trip to France was to pass this to Iran but MEK got to him first who.
“In fact SAS have had recent problems recruiting and keeping recruits after their first tour. Halliburton and Co. for example pays serious serious money for special forces expertise.” Anders7777.
Not surpised – the privatisation/outsourcing of war. See also under, ‘Xe’/’Blackwater’/’Sandline’ (all allegedly). Ollie’s Army is here to stay. In fact, it’s far bigger now than in 1979.
“In fact SAS have had recent problems recruiting and keeping recruits after their first tour. Halliburton and Co. for example pays serious serious money for special forces expertise.”
You are kidding !!!
Whilst some of 22 may have left of “better things” have you ever seen a yearly “intake” luke the have on Selection ???
You are having a laugh !
My The Gurkhas are also having the same problem ??????
Dopey..
Let it load. But the first pic down on that link.
Think “meet next door” !!!
From the (Scottish) Daily Record – see link, below.
I’m not sure it had to do with the oil/renewables industries, though – after all, the Scottish Govt and big business has invested heavily in the latter. Perhaps it had a more international dimension? Who knows, folks? It’s like ‘The Outer Limits’, or ‘The Twilight Zone’.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Suicide%3F+Accident%3F+Or+killed+by+men+in+high+places%3B+UNSOLVED%3A+HOW+DiD…-a0176334515
Do MI6 and the CIA sometimes use charity organisations like ‘Save the Children’, say, as cover? Anyone know? Might someone be working for such a charity but actually working for an intelligence service? Sorry, this is a little diversion, perhaps, but still within the broad topic. I think after 3,500 posts, one can afford some breadth.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/save-the-children-denies-link-to-cia-raid-on-bin-laden-8114023.html
James are you the most naive person in the world ? Most of the things you protest against i’d say are both widely accepted and reported. Almost common knowledge, certainly for anyone with even a casual interest in espionage. I hope Anders is wrong and we’re not paying you, or we truly are up the creek without a paddle.
Dopey.
LoL !!……I dare not say what the first laugh was…….for fear of igniting the thread again.
=====
Spoilsport 🙂
Do MI6 and the CIA sometimes use charity organisations like ‘Save the Children’, say, as cover? Anyone know? Might someone be working for such a charity but actually working for an intelligence service? Sorry, this is a little diversion, perhaps, but still within the broad topic. I think after 3,500 posts, one can afford some breadth.
=====
They be stupid if they didn’t. Unesco, all the peace volunteers, anyone doing overseas aid work, clergy, all are fair game for infiltration.
“Most of the things you protest against i’d say are both widely accepted and reported”.
Huh !
List please ?
foul language and racism…but do carry on.
This’ll be good !
@ james
1st pic down – err men in balaclavas?
I think you meant Duh !
Bilbo !
Where art the list.
Y’know. The “things I protest against”.
I gave the the first two, you can’t have them… but where is the rest ?
This is a real old favourite of yours isn’t it ? Stamp away. I’d just review some of the more absurd things you’ve posted over the last week or so, you’ve left me agog. By the way what the hell is foul language ? Sticks and stones. Sticks and stones.
There’s a new article on Paris Match. I went on the site to translate it but got a virus alert (get a few of these whenever I go on a French news site :0-/ )
Anyway Google news in the last hour and its the first link that pops up. …tread carefully though re the virus alert
Bilbo !
And the list ?
“this is an old favourite of yours….” ?
And what is that. Asking a question and trying to clarify what you mean >
How can I answer you otherwise ?
Twas your question afterall.
My goodness, what did I miss?!?!
Ah well…
Glad to see everyone’s having fun now and playing nicely (mostly!).
🙂
@Anders
Dogs now eh? Bestiality, eh! You are depraved.
Almost spat over me keyboard when I read that! Still tittering now…
😀
@Roger
Yes. I had thought of that, but the implications are then that he set up base to be close to Mollier/factory which would appear excessive and at first glance would put him working for the wrong side.
Not sure what you mean by “the wrong side”, but in general I think you have to start from the facts, as best we have them, then try and work out who’s on who’s side, rather than the other way around.
The facts that we have are:
BM has a house in Chevaline, bought in the last 2 years, with money from goodness-knows-where. The source of funds may be innocent, maybe not.
The house is conveniently close to:
a) The usually-deserted track where the killings took place
b) The Zirconium/Hafnium plant in Ugine where Mollier worked
c) The campsite where SAH regularly came on holiday
Also, BM and Mollier were both members of the same cycling club.
So… who’s on who’s side now?
Sounds to me like it’s BM and SAH for England, SM for France (or for his own account), and a kill team from the Oy Vey gang. But how this all fits together I can’t get my head around, just yet.
@Kempe
I’m at a loss to understand the problems people are having with the word sibling. It derives from Old English meaning relative and is common enough use in the UK when referring to brothers and sisters.
Yes, of course – I think we’re all familar with the word ‘sibling’. It’s not the meaning that’s odd, it’s the usage and the context. What I would have expected BM to say was “I thought she was playing with SOMEONE”, not “I thought she was playing with A SIBLING”. Why would he think she was playing with a sibling?
@Kempe
I think had she [the 4yo] been removed from the car and placed back in it afterwards I think she’d have said so.
AFAIK she hasn’t said anything yet – although I agree this is a potential problem with this theory. BUT she is reported as being dead in the car very early on in the timeline so her existence must have been known very early on, much earlier than is being said.
@Anders
Agreed – apparently SAH had been going to the same camp site for years, so makes sense to have a safe house for the handler nearby to Sylvain, IF he was providing stuff for the Brits. Probably used the same RV in years gone by, all three. Excellent cover for BM. The local cycling club too, where he could debrief Sylvain on rides in the countryside. It all FITZ™
It certainly DUZ™!
🙂
Qom
Funny that, SAH being so close to that secret underground bunker where they’re doing the Uranium enrichment, SILEX, n all…
@Dopey
3. RAFman says that after he and PD went up the scene, PD went down to call the rescue services. PD says he made the call before going up.
………………….
That one’s not right. In his interview RAFman did say they called before they went up in the car.
I will check a video of the interview when I get a chance. Thanks for chipping in.
@Roger
Isn’t it quite likely that both SAL and SM are working for Iran and are being financial rewarded for their efforts. SM is passing material/know-how to SAL and SM is bringing it to Iran on his visits to Qom.
Let’s say UK services are tracking SAL. They the tip off the French. Soon the world knows and Mossad are saying if you don’t do something about it, we will…
Could it be that straightforward?
Yes, I think it could. Or something along those lines. If so, a safe house and a host would be very useful in this scenario, yes?
@Felix
@ferret The GM was allegedly Al-Allaf, not Al-Safar/Saffar. But on the other hand Mrs Al-Hilli was Al-Saffar not Al-Hilli.
Sorry but you got the wrong guy there, Felix – I wasn’t part of the discussion of the GM!
@Roland
and Raf-guy is just not convincing on camera; I don’t think he was part of the team, but he is not telling the truth about his involvement in all this. and yes, I would put money on Raf-guy being SS.
AMEN™
So, just as Gareth Williams was assassinated by some or other intelligence service for reasons that remain unknown, might it not be possible that an MI6 agent (or officer), let us say, hypothetically, working all over the world undercover as a charity worker, would also run the risk of meeting a similar end?
@Dopey
Paris Match: nothing there really that I can see via a quick squiz of the google translate. Just background on SAH and his Claygate house, his lifestyle, hobbies, etc etc. A few quotes from Gary Aked. Nothing to get excited about…
Reminds me, this Gary Aked is interesting. He’s the one who’s quoted as saying that SAH would never get security clearance because of his Iraqi background (how would he know???) and that SAH never worked on anything defence-related (again, how would he know???).
Ferret…
I blame the cheese. The cheese did it.
…and the bird poo.
It’s from Qom…or is that Quorn !
Ferret at 10:43pm, yes, I agree. His Iraqi background would not necessarily be a total barrier, I don’t think, though I don’t know enough about these matters. It depends what one level one is talking about. If one takes the USA, well, there are lots of people of various backgrounds working with/in the CIA, say. Think too of Zalmay Khalilzad, the USA’s man in Afghanistan. He would’ve had the highest possible security clearance and he was born in Afghanistan. MI6 uses agents and officers from lots of backgrounds (eg. White Russians were MI6 officers during the Cold War). The officers get reverse positive vetted (or whatever it’s called). But he was surveilled during the 1990/91 invasion of Kuwait, as were many Iraqis in the UK at that time, or maybe he was being protected (Saddam Huseein’s regime had assassinated many Iraqi political exiles in London during the 1970s/1980s)?
Maybe Craig will know about this stuff about clearance and ethnic origin, etc.?
Thanks Ferret
This ‘friend’, ‘Gary’ is also the one who speculated about internet chat-rooms. As with David Kelly’s garrulous ‘best friends’ who suddenly appeared with firm narratives of what had happened and with suggestions about his mental state, it occurs to one, who needs enemies, when one has friends like these?
@Ferret
“SAH would never get security clearance because of his Iraqi background (how would he know???) and that SAH never worked on anything defence-related (again, how would he know???).”
It wouldn’t surprise me if that was the case although I just have that gut feeling and no real knowledge. He, however, maybe knew this for sure.
@Dopey
3. RAFman says that after he and PD went up the scene, PD went down to call the rescue services. PD says he made the call before going up.
………………….
That one’s not right. In his interview RAFman did say they called before they went up in the car.
I just re-watched BM’s “full” video at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19587272 but frustratingly it cuts off before he gets to the bit where he describes the emergency call.
However, now that I’m revisiting it, I’m beginning to think you might be right, and perhaps I’m confusing it with a report I read of him in the paper.
Now… on a slightly different note, I think I have a pretty good hunch as to why he said “at first I thought she was playing with a sibling”.
Ready?
I think that THE 4YO WAS ALSO OUT OF THE CAR WHEN BRETT MARTIN ARRIVED, SO HE SAW TWO CHILDREN. He thought the 7yo was playing with her sibling because that’s exactly what he saw. Two children.
Makes sense?
In fact, the more I think about this, the more it seems so blinding obvious because it’s “hidden in plain sight”. (Let it sink in for a few minutes, I know at first it might not make much sense.)
The problem is, what happened then with the 4yo… why did SM not say anything about a 4yo? Did she go back and hide in the car after BM went down for help, so SM didn’t see or hear her?
And then BM told the police about her, so they found her early on, as reported (wrongly as dead).
Now all we don’t know is why BM would lie about it, and why the police would say she hid for 8 hours, still as a mouse (which is hardly credible).
But I am pretty convinced that he saw two children, one “fooling around” ie wounded, whom he thought was playing with her sister.
Thoughts, anyone?