My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
2nd one
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/bruno-trinquier/24/b5/707/en
And another one
http://ie.linkedin.com/pub/thomas-rouch/30/414/a64
WTF is AFT-IFTIM?
@James
He’s listed on the day two agenda James.
Is that he ?
Dopey can I ask…as tou dont say, what is your theory ?
James I haven’t got a clue. My hunch is the same as others- he was selling secrets, or someone wanted him to. I sway towards it being space/satellite related though rather than bomb related.
Maybe he refused to sell info, and was killed for that. Maybe he was selling info and was killed for THAT. Those wanting to protect their secrets could be as prone to kill as those wanting to get their hands on the info.
Dopey
Ok…get the ideas.
Lets go to the selling ides bit (or metal).
Imagine who…What or where would they go ?
I have a whole “thing” on this now….and to be honest I hope to be proved wrong.
As ex Aircrew myself. And as a son of the (very old) G Sqn 22 *Guards Sqn (Guards Independent Para)I want to prove this case “a lone nutter” otherwise, I think I hve a Looooong job !
I’ve looked at a few more Linkedin profiles. They all have former long military careers (operations leaders, captains…no squaddies….some are Brits too. Many now are CEO’s/high ranking)
They all went to AFT-IFTIM, and AFT-IFTIM does military training simulators.
Now I wonder if RAFman ever went there. Is the Sylvain Molliere listed as working there just a coincidence?
On that note I’ve worn myself out and am off to bed.
Dopey…
The probs are, if it is “Mossey” I kinda think “OK”.
My worry is “why”
If the “cranks” in the Gulf tells me, bad ppl did bad thing…yet we have to do this (Micky) I would be damn upset.
The prob is Dopey…if bad men get killed…or goofy men get killed. I have I have things I need to consider.
My English must seem bad…but jey ho !
And ?
This ‘friend’, ‘Gary’ is also the one who speculated about internet chat-rooms. As with David Kelly’s garrulous ‘best friends’ who suddenly appeared with firm narratives of what had happened and with suggestions about his mental state, it occurs to one, who needs enemies, when one has friends like these?
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That was the BBC twat in the white suit.
Spook written all over him!
Long retired but dragged out to put the boot into Dr Kelly.
SAYANIM!
the 4 yr old hiding under dead mama stinks. it would be natural for 4 yr old to seek out sister, so maybe thats what rafman saw..but he was there all along wasnt he? so was 4 yr old taken away by assasins and then given to gendarmes later… and where is proof that rafman was in same cycle club as SM? prove it! and the BMW tyres were not flat so why do some people keep on with that BS ? If they flat show a photo…prove it or shut up…
@ anders “That was the BBC twat in the white suit.”
Martin Ding Dong?
@ferret
Problem here is that BM knew that the media and cops are defo reporting that Zeena lay hiding under a blood-drenched skirt for 8 hours…
To go through:
BM ARRIVED, SO HE SAW TWO CHILDREN. He thought the 7yo was playing with her sibling because that’s exactly what he saw. Two children.
Makes sense?
Yes, but why admit to this a week or more later (after he was flushed out) on BBC tee vee. Doesn’t make sense. He incriminates himself immediately as a liar, or the French as idiots, or both, or both complicit in a cover-up, which they are, but not for this point.
In fact, the more I think about this, the more it seems so blinding obvious because it’s “hidden in plain sight”. (Let it sink in for a few minutes, I know at first it might not make much sense.)
The problem is, what happened then with the 4yo… why did SM not say anything about a 4yo? Did she go back and hide in the car after BM went down for help, so SM didn’t see or hear her?
Read up on the history of Tavistock psychiatrists. With their drugs and methods, a 4 year old is putty in their hands. And she will NEVER appear in court, be certain of that. Tavistock and SIS are joined at the hip.
Ditto for Zainab, she was drugged immediately (induce coma, remember PD saw no injuries whatsoever!!!) – so 2 kids are eliminated, and put under the care of Shrinks.
Right.
And then BM told the police about her, so they found her early on, as reported (wrongly as dead).
Yes well PD found her, it seems BM never went back up to the car with PD, it seems he may have continued down the hill.
The authorities and BBC faked interview are IMO deliberately fudging all this.
Now all we don’t know is why BM would lie about it, and why the police would say she hid for 8 hours, still as a mouse (which is hardly credible).
I’ve posted my theories on this I think yesterday, for RE-EDUCATION.
The hit went down, the team spared RAFman ™ + 2 kids, panic stations, 2 witnesses, 7 and 4, therefore they MUST be taken out of the immediate equation.
Apart from shooting them dead, next step is buy time and wait for Tavistock to arrive, a shring on-message who will do the biz.
But I am pretty convinced that he saw two children, one “fooling around” ie wounded, whom he thought was playing with her sister.
Thoughts, anyone?
Yes I think that can fly to a certain extent, but see my point at the very top.
They are fudging now and doing workarounds, this will never go to trial, and BM will never go under oath. So the only people nailing this are us.
Of course all the major security services will have sussed it by now, but they have their contacts and their ways.
RAFman’s undercover career is over, and he will go to pasture.
re : spooks vs anders
funny innit that since anders has stopped posting at IKE , that so has everyone else practically FULL STOP… spooks by the bucketload de-camped to here to clog up this thread on anders tail… funny that innit ? all these world travelled types that arent in the pub and who surely must have jobs & families to admin, stuck here on this thread 24/7 … yeah, DEAD funny
@ anders “That was the BBC twat in the white suit.”
Martin Ding Dong?
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Something like that.
Plagiarising Tom Wolfe! :0
Not the MP guy, the ex-Panorama one. 🙂
I must have a fan club, eh? 🙂
Actually my job is done now, the real research is being done by others, I’m somewhat limited on an iphone most of the time. Dopey, great stuff, but gotta paste in the info as well as links, as, if you hit pay dirt, the links will vanish. Looking promising with ATK, I have to say.
@anders
the MP one IS the panorama one isnt it? Martin Bell . who else wears a white suit?
yes you have a fang club … all these vampires @ Twilight
is there a 3rd thread you could go to? then see which vampires follow….
oh & anders .. Shirley is my name *wink*
@anders
the MP one IS the panorama one isnt it? Martin Bell . who else wears a white suit?
yes you have a fang club … all these vampires @ Twilight
is there a 3rd thread you could go to? then see which vampires follow….
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Ding Dong!!!
Actually no, I was thinking of another bloke, was wheeled out as a so-called friend of Kelly on Newsnight and all over the place, ex current affairs reporter, 60+ now, tight curly white hair. He was putting the boot in, thought he was being subtle – he wasn’t, for those with eyes to see!
VV <— My fangs! 🙂
oh & anders .. Shirley is my name *wink*
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SURELY NOT! 🙂 🙂 🙂
This is the bestest EVER ‘friend’ Of Dr David Kelley:
Tom Mangold was born in Hamburg and came to Britain as a child, attending Dorking County Grammar School. He did National Service with the Royal Artillery. He is married, lives in London, has three daughters by previous marriages, and works as a freelance reporter specialising in
INTELLIGENCE 😉
http://dr-david-kelly.blogspot.co.uk/2006/07/coming-up-major-new-article-on-norman.html
Tom Mangold and his DR MARTENS all over his buddy Dr David Kelly…
So if he didn’t die of haemorrhage and he didn’t die of co-proxamol poisoning, what did he die of?
The Hutton Inquiry had no ‘teeth’ – witnesses were not subpoenaed and did not give evidence on oath. Even the pathologist who examined Dr Kelly told the Channel 4 News team he would have preferred a formal inquest. In a case as important as this, why WAS there no inquest, why WAS there no verdict? Did Dr Kelly kill himself? Three years after the event legal and medical experts – three of them vascular surgeons – are not convinced that he did.
Tom Mangold crops up yet again in this programme as Dr Kelly’s ‘friend’, yet in his own words to the Hutton Inquiry he described it as ‘not a frequent’ relationship. It transpired they exchanged few e-mails, seldom met, and when they did, it was on a professional basis. When offered a ‘dry shoulder’ by Mangold during a time of crisis Kelly told him in an e-mail it was a ‘not a good time to be in communication’ — not a particularly friendly response. Mangold persists (as he did in Radio 4’s ‘Today Programme’) in deliberately misleading the viewer by implying the Kelly Investigation Group’s thesis is that Dr Kelly was physically lifted out of his house under the nose of his wife. The KIG has made no such assertion. It is on record that just before he disappeared, Kelly walked out of the house on his own and met a neighbour. Why does this supposed ‘investigative journalist’ ignore the facts and try to turn the assassination scenario into a joke?
He talks of seven agencies rgiorously examining the facts; but they didn’t — they ignored those they deemed inconvenient. Two ‘dodgy dossiers’ have shown the government worked hard to distort the facts over intelligence in the lead-up to the Iraq invasion, so why should its agencies be trusted?
The really good mystery with Dr David Kelly is how his knife had no fingerprints on it despite him not wearing gloves and even better his glasses had no fingerprints or DNA on them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366301/David-Kelly-inquest-Police-admit-fingerprints-DNA-glasses.html#ixzz26yOLTpE4
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9537332/MI6-boss-visited-Israeli-Prime-Minister-to-urge-against-attacking-Iran.html
Did he indeed? Did he say, “Calm down, bibi, calm down.. look we’ve (helped you guys) take out another bunch of dangerous pro Iranian scientists. We can handle this ..”
Where’s Werritty????
The really good mystery with Dr David Kelly is how his knife had no fingerprints on it despite him not wearing gloves and even better his glasses had no fingerprints or DNA on them.
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Yeah I was on a bunch of Kelly groups for years, have the MP’s book (Norman Baker), which is quite good, but at the end (I won’t spoil it for you!) he comes up with a lamo conclusion as to the culprits. Could tell you tons about the case, but too off topic. Currently 10 or so eminent doctors/surgeons are taking them on, but slow going, they are getting the run around. The Daily Express is really the only paper that asked questions all the time about Kelly and Diana. As Craig Murray says about the war drum beats for Iran:
“All decent people must despair at the prospect of yet another cycle of violence. Powerful interests both in the West and in the Middle East are not amongst those decent people.
Of all the signals the West could send out to try to end the horrors wrought by the promoters of the “Clash of civilisations”, the most powerful would be to arraign Bush and Blair for war crimes. This is not a deluded hope of idealists; it is an essential step if the world is ever to heal.”
M69
And where’s Gilligan?
@Anders7777 20 Sep, 2012 – 4:34 am
Yeah Right! Still plying his trade as London Editor of the Torygraph.
More to the point is Werritty. Where is he? Who is he?? And what is Atlantic Bridge???
Ironic if the al Hilli conundrum comes back to that, given the stirling investigative work on that other foxing conundrum on this very site!
given the stirling investigative work on that other foxing conundrum on this very site!
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Didn’t know about that!
But I was following Werritty on my own, as I have an INTENSE dislike of beady-eyed Liam Fox,a little Napoleon with short-arse syndrome, despicable little chancer that quite rightly got caught red handed. And swanning around wearing baseball caps at our expense, with his ‘friend’ Adam! Talk about BLACKMAIL potential! As I understand it the pair of them were sucking up to Atlantic Bridge warmongering neocons. Too hypocritical to come out, he was even caught gay bashing! And these wallahs run the Govt. What a joke we are.
@Anders7777 20 Sep, 2012 – 5:14 am
Take some time out and go back over CM’s archives. They start here I think:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/10/fox/