My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Cheers M69
Will do! 😉
Ad Altiora 😉
Another Dental connection.
A chap who volunteered information to the press was family friend Zaid Al-Abdi.
From the Evening Standard Sept 7:
Today, Sean O’Reilly-Hilli, from Walton-on-Thames, a relative of the family, was too upset to comment. He said: “My family have been killed, why would I talk about that?”
Family friend Zaid Alabdi, 48, from Kingston-upon-Thames, said an inheritance dispute had broken out between Mr al-Hilli and his elder brother following the death of their father Kadhim, a wealthy businessman, late last year.
He said Zaid al-Hilli had lived for several years at the family’s £1.5 million home in Claygate, near Esher, but moved out about three months ago. Dr Alabdi, a dentist, said relations between the two brothers had since deteriorated and they were eventually communicating only through solicitors.
Dr Alabdi said: “Saad and Ikbal were a lovely couple who worked hard and had no enemies. Maybe it’s not relevant but this is the only problem I can think of in their lives. It was worrying Saad and there is a question mark over the subject.
“Things were fine until their father died, but then it all went downhill. They didn’t speak to each other at all. It’s a big issue and involved lots of money.”
I hadn’t realised Alabdi was a dentist too (at at Cross Deep Dental Practice , Twickenham) You can see him in this French video:
http://www.bfmtv.com/societe/chevaline-un-proche-saad-al-hilli-explore-differentes-hypotheses-334406.html
Perhaps Mrs Al-Hilli was a trainee dentist there?
Anders wrote:
Brett Martin reminded me of that Jersey detective in that BBC production ( ), what was his name? – erh, “Bergerac” played by en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nettles from Cornwall.
“Sibling” is a word that Bergerac would have used, because he thought it sounded good, which I think it does. In this way we all tend to use words which we think sounds good. And which other word would you use to describe a brother/sister? I think “sibling” is the best word there is.
But i agree there are many inconsistencies in Brett’s account. How on earth could he had thought that she was just playing around with a sibling, when she would have been covered in blood. that’s odd.
Dopey.
Good work there.
RE: Garry Aked, don’t write that friendship off, almost 20 years is a long time & inevitably they would know each other well in that time.
“Gary, 52, became a close friend of Iraqi-born Saad after meeting him in 1993 when they worked for the same engineering firm. They even went on holiday together.”
It is clearly true too as you can see how much younger AH looks in the photo here :
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-islamic-rants-1326315
In my view because AH was supposed to be a ‘cheeky chappie’ his rants against Americans & Israel would be said publicly with a smile on his face,what’s more, friends would expect him to be anti American, had he not been it would be abnormal under the circumstances.
It seems to me as allies of the US & his very strong anti royalist views,he had a deep hatred for the UK & our government. Aked knows it, which is why he’s pointing to the computers & chat rooms for clues.
The pointer is, something happened in recent months that turned him into an angry Iraqi,the changing of his Skype avatar from daughter to bearded Jihadist speaks volumes.
I’ve tried searching for both men on Skype…….rien !
My feeling is that pressure came from someone on those sites, he was asked to join the Jihadist fight ,he had the knowledge they could use to great effect,think about it……..I cannot think of another group who would so cruelly involve children.
The shells left behind at the site,not 100% professional,the smashing of a child’s face, the not so up to date weapon, the message this shooting sends
This theory could only work if Mollier was also like minded & AH was lured into a meeting with him by his killers .
What did the police mean about Molliers ‘double life’ ?
The bullet holes low down in the windscreen, I wonder , could mobile phones have been sitting on the dashboard shelf there,hence the hope of immobilising them ?
I’d say the shots were fired from higher vehicle & aimed down.
A word on inquests….these occur in the UK even when the death is abroad and the body returned to the UK. What is going to happen? Can’t help also thinking about Dr Kelly at this juncture…
Forensic examinations of the bodies have now been completed and they have been returned to their relatives. [BBC 12 sept]
@Anders
The talk of spooky Tom Mangold, in the Kelly nexus, reminds me of Al-Hilli neighbour Jack Saltman
The training was provided by Jack Saltman, a former Producer and Director of ‘Panorama’ for the BBC and later in his career, Editor of ‘This Week’ for Thames Television,
http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/head-groundsmen-working-with-the-media.html
Morning Felix.
For David Kelly of course there never was an inquest & Di had to wait for what 10 years ?
@Anders
Look out for ex-RAF man in a branch of B&Q, Wicks or Do-it-all near you. Actually, I thought pilots tended to live among the pines and golf courses of Virginia Water??
Yeeeees, Katie. And don’t forget Terry Jupp….
Alabdi: (op cit)
Nous pensons qu’il était la cible et que Saad et sa famille étaient les témoins”, poursuit-il. – We believe that [Sylvian Mollier] was the target and that Saad and his family were the witnesses
Felix.
I hadn’t heard of him so I ‘goggled’ ……. eight years that one took. Shocking !
@Katie
There had been a DA notice in place there. Knowing what facts are available, one may speculate why.
Sylvain Mollier and Brett Martin were widely reported to be in the same cycle club. Here’s one example.
“13h50 : les deux cyclistes, celui dont le corps a été retrouvé près de la voiture et celui qui a découvert la scène du crime, se connaissaient, tous deux étant licenciés au club de vélo d’Ugine en Savoie.”
“The two cyclists, the one whose body was found near the car, and the one who discovered the crime scene, knew each other, both being members of the Ugine Cycle Club in Savoie.”
http://www.lemessager.fr/Actualite/Chablais/2012/09/05/article_messager_1623629.shtml
(My translation)
@Kathy
It’s interesting that Gary Aked diverts attention from al-Hilli’s job as a possible motive for killing him to his religious beliefs and anger at the Iraq war so hinting at possible terrorist links. Could he just have been dissembling in order to create a smoke screen?
D’ya think!?!
😀
Re dissembling, the newspaper article mentioning Gary Aked quoted him as saying that SAH had 4 computers and a laptop, all supposedly for posting his rants onto rabid muslim chatrooms. (Why would you need 5 computers for that?)
The link to the Paris Match article posted last night changed this though – I think it said the computers were for his engineering stuff, and the laptop for posting to the internet.
So I was wrong – there was something of passing interest, even if only to note how changing a small detail can make a reasonable man seem like a maniac.
(Sorry – no links at the moment to these articles – and no time to look them up… The Paris Match one was posted here last night tho)
Its highly interesting, i think, if Brett Martin and Sylvian Moillier new each other. Very, very interesting….
On the contrary, Aked is telling the police to trawl through AH computers.
I wouldn’t say there’s any dissembling in that advice.
I mean – if they new each other, they would have been out training together, wouldn’t they
Two links
The first link some background info about relatives.
http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.at/2012/09/al-hilli-all-in-family.html?m=1
The second link is likely not important but it is a forum input of zaid al hilli in a mathematics forum. It is proof that he worked as a hardware and software tech. Not surprising, because he is listed in Saad’s SHTECH ltd. as a secretary until late 2011
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.lang.vhdl/2011-07/msg00095.html
@Kempe
I can’t think of any reason why the killer would want to hang around after the killing putting the litle girl back in the car, it makes no sense
Agreed.
Under the scenario I’m proposing, I think the killers left the girls alive and BM found them both, plural, alive and uninjured. BM could have told Zeena (4yo) to go hide in the car, and told Zainab (7yo) to play dead. (No injuries reported by PD on her, remember.)
He was shit scared the killers were still around, remember, so this was the best way he could think of to protect them, given that he couldn’t take them both down on his bike. Cool thinking too, under the circs. (Ties in with praise from prosecutor for being calm.) Then he went down to call for help, appearing panicked, as he was desperate to get help as fast as poss and had no signal.
Subsequently, either the police played along (a la Fiona) to protect the girls while they thought they were in danger, or (a la Anders) the kids were whisked off and reprogrammed to forget everything.
and how did he lock the car doors afterwards? Did he have a spare key and if so where from? Can a BMW be locked from the outside with a key in the ignition anyway?
As discussed on this thread some time ago, apparently the doors are self-locking after a certain period? The prosecutor said the engine was found “running” and BM says it was revving.
This is all, of course, assuming BM is the “accidental hero”, and is only lying to protect the kids, as told to by the police/SS. He may of course be lying outright and have been there all along and be SS himself.
I’m not sure which of these I believe more right now, but they are both at least possible.
@Dopey
Good work on researching the Mollier/Molliere thing… at first I discounted it because although the names look similar to the english eye, they sound very different in french. (Moll-eee-ay vs Moll-eee-air)
But who knows???
Certainly an odd connection, if it is.
Ferret.
I think you are reading that wrongly:
“He believes police need to look at his friend’s banks of computers to get to the truth of what happened in France.
He used a rear upstairs room to house four computers and a laptop worth up to £20,000 which he used to write his beliefs in Arabic forums……….. Saad also had a number of other PCs in an outside shed which Gary helped to build.”
It stands to reason the man would have a computer programmed in Arabic for speaking to friends in Iraq, more than likely that would be the one used for his rants.
Others inevitably would be for design… the expensive one probably. Then there’s the business.
The article mentions that he took his work home with him and that maybe what the 5 comps are for he even took his laptop on a Sking holiday, I did ask the other day but does anyone know if the campsite had wi-fi, just trying to identify if he had acted true to form and had taken a computer with him.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-islamic-rants-1326315
Also I have seen it mentioned that he had been to France a few times already this year, has anyone seen the area’s mentioned!
@KK
I mean – if they [Sylvain Mollier & Brett Martin] new each other, they would have been out training together, wouldn’t they
Exactly
@Katie
I think you are reading that wrongly:
Ah… I see – thanks for putting me straight!
There’s a comma missing in that sentence, then, after the word “computers”.
The sentence reads:
“He used a rear upstairs room to house four computers and a laptop worth up to £20,000 which he used to write his beliefs in Arabic forums.”
But it should have read:
“He used a rear upstairs room to house four computers, and a laptop worth up to £20,000 which he used to write his beliefs in Arabic forums.”
One small piece of punctuation changes the entire meaning of the sentence!
@Katie (again)
“He believes police need to look at his friend’s banks of computers to get to the truth of what happened in France.”
Ties in with the comment from the Iraqi relative, about if they look at what work he did they’ll find out who killed him, don’t you think?
Ricki wrote:
When are somebody travelling to the site, and recording anything on video, as they are interviewing people, and looking up the — In my view — crucial first witnesses who talked about “30 seconds of gunfire”. Who are those witnesses? Go there, set up camp in Chevaline and interview people. Also mount a camera to a car and travel those 3 kilometer up and continue some miles and let us see what the road looks like.*
When a mountain road is described as “dangerous” it is usually because it has fallen beyond repair and is not maintained, meaning that rocks have fallen down here and there, but it would be interesting to interview people (cyclist or moto-cyklists) whether it is not perfectly passable on two wheels.
Ricki yes there’s wi-fi at the camp.
Maybe the earlier visit to France was to their house in the Dordoyne. Few seem to have picked up on why the family travelled so far to get to the campsite in Chevaline, it was a three star, whereas there are far better ones in France going up to 5 star I believe.
Yes when i arrive at the scene of what i think to be a car crash my first reaction on seeing a child is, oh look she must be playing. The running engine is of course the lullaby for this lovely scene. He’s either emotionally defunct or he is telling some absolute whoppers.
Like I said last night, the campsite is conveniently close to BM’s house which is conveniently close to SM’s house. Certainly within range of a cycling training run… and BM’s house is conveniently close to the normally-deserted lane where the murders happened.
Remember also that SAH was reported as going off on his own by car four to six times each day?
This was later pooh-poohed by the campsite owner as “normal errands” but it doesn’t sound like a normal campsite holiday to me. Hastily arranged, n all…