My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/comp.lang.vhdl/YUHEfma6INw
http://mobile.techworld.com/news/security/3360617/cambridge-researchers-uncover-backdoor-in-military-chip/
http://m.h-online.com/security/news/item/Backdoor-found-in-popular-FPGA-chip-1585579.html?from-classic=1
Not saying that they worked on stuxnet or flame!
Fpga chips are frequently used in military complex and sateelites and in the nuclear accelerator industry.
At least that does not sound like golf business to me since chips are not allowed to be use in golf clubs. 🙂
@ Peter
1. Why have you assumed they were engaged in a picnic. What evidence is there.
2. Why would they picnic in a mud/gravel clearing when there were perfectly good picnic places a little further on.
3. Why would a random killer wait for a long time before carrying out his shooting.
About a decade ago.
http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/saa-al-hilli-background.html
I assume Gary Aked would have been 1 of the 6 people at their wedding.
A last point… if I were a green, junior and somewhat dense Gendarme on the investigation I would be suggesting to my superiors (a) that photographs of BM and SM be shown to the two girls; (b) that the girls’ clothing be checked for trace DNA; (c) that blood samples be taken from the girls and checked for sedatives.
If these three checks, as a minimum, were performed I wonder what the results may have been and why, if they have been performed, they have not been made public since their publication might have helped to progress the case.
4. Why haven’t the French police launched a search for “Marc” the strange ploughman’s son ? *we all know what those French villages are like).
Bilbo.
You speak as a knowledgeable shooter, were the witnesses gun users ?
I live in rural France don’t shoot, but do hear rapid shots occasionally.
I also see a shoot across my fields they spread out along the edge of the woodland for roughly a kilometre [? ] & like any amateur I wouldn’t have a clue what weapon is being used on any occasion.
Yes that B*****d that has woken me at dawn some Sunday mornings definitely has the double barrel loudest shotgun.
Ferret, didn’t we all discuss the possibility of BM being deaf because he’d said, or someone did, that he heard no gunshots ?
Anyway getting back to thirty seconds of gunfire, how come, are they saying that the killer started & finished completely in that time…..not possible ?
The killer had to be at close quarters to shoot their foreheads that means he must have been standing in the doorway of the car, no way could they all have been looking straight at him & he got it right through…. ‘shattered’…. glass,which it would be after the first shot.
Then he stood back & sprayed the windows, then or before, he shot Mollier. AND at some stage reloaded.
Mollier took five bullets would that take 30 seconds ?
If they heard that then why not more ?
I wonder if Stuxnet started when Al-Hilli visited Qom?
@peter, He shoots her in the shoulder to shut her up, but not to kill her.
Call me odd but if i’m a lone lunatic gunman frankly i’m not that bothered having already killed three people about killing a child, a potential witness. If you don’t value life, you don’t value life. dog, cat, adult, child.
While the picnic theory has some charm to it this is a stunningly beautiful area with many wonderful view points with dramatic views but you choose to go up a fairly off peak track and sit in a wooded area with no view, not forgetting lunch was at lunchtime not at 3/4/5pm and children know when they are hungry. high tea in the high mountains, i don’t think.
finally, if you are mollier unless you are the most heroic selfless person ever and are able to override your flight or fight response (i.e a professional) you run, run, run not casually keep rolling right into the middle of the firefight. but imo he was right there at the beginning. He is as if not more significant than ah to me. I find the wife reporting him ‘missing’ after a few hours in france of all countries plain weird. but then again maybe he said if i’m not back…..
Why would they picnic in a mud/gravel clearing when there were perfectly good picnic places a little further on.
I *assume* that they were having a picknick because they spent an hour up there. I don’t think that they had that picknick inside their car, but somewhere nearby.
I think the killer chose that moment to attack because they were just about to leave, having returned to their car and packed up those “big bags”.
Call me odd but if i’m a lone lunatic gunman frankly i’m not that bothered having already killed three people about killing a child, a potential witness.
Very true. But that is the only way in which I could explain that strange sequence of events (first beating her, then shooting her in the shoulder). I cannot see him missing her head at point-blank range if he had wanted to shoot her in the head.
When are some of you going to Chevaline and set up shop (there might very likely be a room available for rent on that famous thorough fare) and start interviewing people before things start to fade form memory. I really don’t understand it. OK, funds may be an issue. I would be willing to invest some funds in it if you set up a website.
But this requires some individualistic thinking. You must start to think that you can make a difference by travelling to Chevaline and setting up this shop.
Katie i dont know if the witness(es) were shooters or not but as i was saying in rural france and as you have agreed it is a very common sight and sound. therefore it becomes irrelevant if they shoot or not as they are used to those sounds and the sounds of those guns. what they are unlikely to have heard is the crack or pah of repeated rapid pistol gunfire, not a hunt situation.
I agree with Bilbo, the thought of killing young people didn’t stop Breivik.
peter it is of course possible that they either thought she was dead, would die or had to leave the scene pdq and there was no time to worry about whether she was alive or dead banking on the fact that not only would she likely have memory loss, a blow to the head, the combined trauma, the age all leaves for a pretty unreliable witness. also, if you are ‘beyond the law’ you’re not worried about getting caught because you know you of course wont get caught so therefore the child(ten) can live once you have used them to extract info.
I believe the solution is that security pawns SM and AH, being used to uncover real threats and unknown to each others’ service bosses, were encouraged to set up the meet, each believing the other to be a genuine threat. Information regarding the meeting leaked to third parties who believed both to be actual threats and killed them. The children were unexpected. Bosses regret fuck up but now concentrating on the leak.
Someone said two dead little girls would create a total outcry.
I agree.
First reports say a 4 year old brown skinned little girl was shot dead.
8 hours later we have a resurrection rivalling JHC’s 2k years ago!!!
How difficult do you think it would be to rustle up a 4 year old Arabic girl, France probably the largest Arab / Algerian populations in Europe?
Et voila!
But that is going to a lot of trouble, when all we have to go by is the story of one cop on tee vee describing the tear-inducing MIRACLE ™ !
So now we have RESURRECTIONgirl ™ !
And
KRYPTONITEgirl ™ !
Both up and running around apparently, but strictly no interviews or photos
STRICTLY VERBOTEN ™ !
Never be a trial…
If there is, all done “in camera”…DA notice expires in 100 years no doubt! 😉
A la Dunblane!
FAIRYTALE ™ 🙂
the thought of killing young people didn’t stop Breivik.
Oh, but even Breivik deliberately spared some.
Don’t ask me to work out what might or might have not gone inside this killer’s head, but sparing the girl is the only explanation I have for the sequence of first beating her and then shooting her in the shoulder at point-blank range. However, that sequence is based upon a single quote in a newspaper. If he first shot her from a distance and then pistol-whipped her after finding that he had run out of ammunition, it would be a different story.
It’s too far away for me Kenneth, otherwise I’d have had a snoop around there. 😉
@bilbo
Hello Hayden! 🙂
Btw I like your posts, you know your stuff! (wink) 😉
Honestly, i believe that peter was joking. His scenery was a script from a comedy but certainly not a shskespeare tragedy. We should stop making fun of that. It is too serious.
I am quite sure that mollier did not say : “sir, i beg your pardon, would you kindly stop shooting and give me the gun”
Perhaps he would have done it if he understood mollier speaking french.
However, perhaps mollier talked to him in latin or esperanto or hebraeic?
Well, now i am making fun, too. Bad boy.
There isnt a lunatic gunman – the police strategy would have been very different, first to warn the local community and make them feel confident that they are safe. They know or have a good idea who did this! even if we dont! with 20 Int officers there to advise im sure they came to this conclusion quickly and where there for a reason, they already knew about Al-Hilli or Mollier or one or both was an asset to the UK SS.
Is there any other evidence from around the world of incidents like this where 20 Intelligence officers arrived on the scene of the crime within 2 hours of the incident! how are 20 officers available from the consulate In Paris (5 hours away)when Berne is much closer (2 Hours away).
The girl being beaten in this way and shot in the shoulder says to me that this was for show and used to extract information from them or money!
No news now for 3 days?
Well, I wasn’t joking – something Germans are constitutionally incapable of anyway 😉
To my mind, the “lone nutter” theory makes a lot more sense than three Kidon operatives doing this, then fleeing together before meeting up with an Israeli general who whisks them from the scene in his helicopter or whatever it was supposed to be. But then, to each his own.
the thought of killing young people didn’t stop Breivik.
Oh, but even Breivik deliberately spared some.
Don’t ask me to work out what might or might have not gone inside this killer’s head, but sparing the girl is the only explanation I have for the sequence of first beating her and then shooting her in the shoulder at point-blank range. However, that sequence is based upon a single quote in a newspaper. If he first shot her from a distance and then pistol-whipped her after finding that he had run out of ammunition, it would be a different story.
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You disappeared yesterday in twirling pantaloons with your panties in a wad calling me a Walter Mitty fantasist over four man Kidon teams, lmao! 🙂
I provide six or seven pieces of evidence, proving that I was correct.
Now you slink back, as you do every day after being SERIALLY RUMBLED ™ every other post! 🙂
Deny, deny deny, eh??? 😉
Or rather, carry on on BULLSHIT AUTOPILOT ™ !
As if nothing happened, eh? 😉
I demand an apology over your Walter Mitty Kidon hissy fit! 🙂
Right NOW Herr Peter.
@ Ricki Tarr
A final comment before I have to leave. I believe that the French authorities are falling into the same trap as the UK authorities may or may not have done: As soon as they found out about the backgrounds of the people involved, they assumed that this must be a case of international intrigue, rather than a particularly grisly, extremely violent but nonetheless *common* murder.
I totally agree with your point about the embassy. I very much doubt that the embassy in Paris has *twenty military types* available. Have you ever been there? I have. It is very, very grand, but also quite short-staffed.
the thought of killing young people didn’t stop Breivik.
Oh, but even Breivik deliberately spared some.
Don’t ask me to work out what might or might have not gone inside this killer’s head, but sparing the girl is the only explanation I have for the sequence of first beating her and then shooting her in the shoulder at point-blank range. However, that sequence is based upon a single quote in a newspaper. If he first shot her from a distance and then pistol-whipped her after finding that he had run out of ammunition, it would be a different story.
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Notice Herr Peter follows the official line on the Britvic shooting PSYOP.
There were CLEARLY more than one shooter.
I have TONS on that PSYOP, but it is off topic.
Well im sure if a crazy was found with a luger then it would put it to bed for us all, but really do you think that the police would have acted in this way, why not still have road block, press conference everyday for the locals, big police presence in the area? also the French police wouldnt have said “we have been advised that this was the work of foreigners” and take a trip to the UK whilst his madman is still at large? Why look into Al-Hilli more than Mollier if it was a local nut?
Oh, but even Breivik deliberately spared some – peter out of interest, how do you know that ? i work in the area of the human mind and i would say that during the shooting he was in a trance, as he has alluded to himself. therefore he was in no position to be making such informed choices. the key word is random.
@CD 20 Sep, 2012 – 12:24 pm
That’s also very plausible. Is there some kind of consensus beginning to emerge here?
Also are we missing the part about the White car coming away from the scene on the wrong side of the road?, the Lady mentioned that she was convinced (from her experience) that it was a british driver, was this also someone that was at the meet? a UK Offical maybe?
Don’t ask me to work out what might or might have not gone inside this killer’s head, but sparing the girl is the only explanation I have for the sequence of first beating her and then shooting her in the shoulder at point-blank range. However, that sequence is based upon a single quote in a newspaper. If he first shot her from a distance and then pistol-whipped her after finding that he had run out of ammunition, it would be a different story.
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Here Peter still pushing the singular lone nutter crapola!
Comical! 🙂