My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
“It can’t be anything to do with race for one reason, Muslims are not a race.” Katie, at 8:16pm.
Well, strictly speaking, you are right, Katie. But in Britain, France, Western Europe, esp., it gets kind of complex, because most Muslims hereabouts are of South Asian/Middle Eastern origin and so most are, uhm, 50 shades of brown (that could be the title of a porn bestseller aimed at the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia). Come to think of it, that’s what I should’ve written, instead of mucking around with literary fiction that gets one lots of references in academic essays (for which I am very grateful) but no bleedin’ dosh.
Anders7777, brilliant poem!!!
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t trust you. Or anyone on this site or others. But when the “lone, local nutter who just happens to have a problem with the dark-skinned people (but not their kids) and cyclists (but not ones in the RAF)” appears I’ll change my tune.
I have an idea of the overall structure of what is most likely to have happened but not the real details. As an architect I’d say the envelope, grid and footprint are ready, but the furniture layout and details are in abeyance :0
But to try so hard to convince us of the official line has raised my suspicions. You raised them for the opposite reason (ie. putting people off reading the only real open debate about it on the net) but nothing that is being revealed to us vie the MSM would indicate the brother-in-law or the lone nutter theory are realistic. Are we supposed to ignore everything else that is going on politically and militarily with the nations, individuals and industries involved?
3. A random thought that just occurred to me. If I were a police officer investigating this matter, my biggest fear right now would be any suggestion being publicly aired that the al-Hillis were targeted simply because they were muslims. With the current anti-western backlash in islamic countries caused by this unspeakable “The Innocence of Muslims” film and the “Charlie Hebdo” caricatures, can you imagine what would happen if the mere suspicion of this being some deranged mind’s idea of “revenge” for Mohammed Mera’s murders or something along those lines gained currency in islamic countries? The consequences would be too horrible to contemplate.
And Yasmin Alibhai-Brown wrote about the McCann case was treated by the media compared to other, non-white child abduction cases. I can’t find the link right now. This ties in with Anders7777’s comment that got the flak yesterday – that’s what he too was suggesting, I think. Anyway, the Al-Hilli case has had a lot of publicity so far, but it’ll now die down a bit, I suppose, the nature of news cycles, lack of new facts/info. in the public domain at least and so on.
Thanks, Blue Bear – I assume that was Peter’s Point No. 3.
I’d have thought that if this simply were a race-hate/religious-hate mass murder, the perpetrator would’ve publicised it and themselves to the hilt, or else, if a secret racist/Islamophobic terrorist, there would’ve been more murders – a la the Washington DC sniper and so on. The consequences of it being a race-hate crime would not be as dire as is being suggested, so long as it seems to be being taken seriously by the police vis a vis investigation, etc. I doubt the cops would feel the need to cover it up – if a simple, race-hate crime – to the extent that is being suggested. The family were not French or North African, either, so less impact wrt French internal politics.
Katie. It is hard to grow up in England and not associate Muslims with a particular race. This is due to the percentage of Muslims who came here from one particular part of the world. I am not suggesting they are a race though. I am saying that Peter’s assertion that the French police wanted to hush up any suggestion of their being Muslim being a part in this is racist in itself. Much like the “money problems” angle, the “family dispute” angle. These suggestions could be seen as tactics to divert the easily distracted into associating a “typical British-Muslim” family with such easily believable stereotypes and away from the truth.
Although I may have simply mis-understood his point 🙂
I don’t think these murders feature much in Muslim countries – they have their own (more plentiful) mass murders to contend with. Sadly, this kind of mass murder is normative in Iraq today and has been, since the invasion of 2003. Pakistan, too. Libya – well. Syria, civil war. And so on.
“Libya -well” meant, ‘Libya – well, it’s obvious, isn’t it?’, not ‘Libya is well’. It’s plainly not.
Blue Bear at 8:36pm: Good points.
I can never understand why people get so worked up about the mention of skin colour.
It is plain silly & insulting to try & ignore what they are, brown black,white or yellow.
It’s astonishing that Ihe Islamic connection has been so ignored in this case. I see Gary Aked said this was the only area he found difficult with Al-Hilli,who just couldn’t understand how he,Gary, was an unbeliever……..
Anders7777, brilliant poem!!!
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Yeah, I have a thing for Larkin, Amis, all that 50s 60s stuff which is really a bit before my time.
It’s not been ignored at all, Katie, quite the opposite, as Blue Bear just suggested. It’s been subtly, almost subliminally, played-up.
Where is “Peter’s Point 3″? Could somebody please give me the time and date of the post, so I can read it? Ta.
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Moi aussi. 🙂
Larkin – very good poet – everyone did him at school, right? Didn’t like his politics, of course. I sometimes like to say that I was born in ‘Philip Larkin’s Town’ – Beverley, Yorkshire – because I think it might irritate the old codger no end, send him spinning in his deep, ston’d, churchen grave.
Blue Bear, except of course that muslim race you mean, is Pakistani not Iraqi.
To be honest ,I’m beginning to see there must be a huge number of Iraqi’s in the UK judging by the size of this family alone. I wonder why they fled to the UK & not a muslim country ?
Anders.
Copied by Blue Bear at 8-36.
Xenakis.
3. A random thought that just occurred to me. If I were a police officer investigating this matter, my biggest fear right now would be any suggestion being publicly aired that the al-Hillis were targeted simply because they were muslims. With the current anti-western backlash in islamic countries caused by this unspeakable “The Innocence of Muslims” film and the “Charlie Hebdo” caricatures, can you imagine what would happen if the mere suspicion of this being some deranged mind’s idea of “revenge” for Mohammed Mera’s murders or something along those lines gained currency in islamic countries? The consequences would be too horrible to contemplate.
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Or too WONDERFUL to contemplate.
Katie, they – Iraqis – did flee to Muslim countries, esp. Syria from 2003 onwards (now it’s the other way) and the UAE and North Africa and so on. They – I assume you mean Iraqis in general – came to the UK because the UK had been the imperial power – the Mesopotamia Mandate post-WW1 (post-Ottoman Empire), so they were also English-speaking (and not French-speaking like the Syrians, Lebanese, etc., who tended to go to France), because of political asylum with individual freedom, etc. and because there have been Arabic-speaking groups here for ages – esp. in melting-pot London. As for the Al-Hillis, I think it’s been written about, their father’s factory, Saddam Hussein’s persecution of him, and so on.
There were lots of links b/w the UK and Iraq. Read Corinne Souza’s excellent books. Her dad was an MI6 agent:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corinne-Souza/e/B0034O64NG
Of course, a lot of British people go to work in ‘Saudi’ and the UAE. Some, like the comedian, Jim Davidson, like it so much, they emigrate. And at one time, many Russians used to work in Iraq/Libya/Egypt/Syria. And many Pakistanis work(ed) in Libya, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. Some came to Britain too, to be born in Philip Larkin’s hometown.
Clark, that is true, they are Iraqis. But that makes little difference to certain sections of our society. They’re just from that neck-of-the woods 😉
And there are lots of Iraqis in Brum. I know a few and they’ve been incredibly friendly to me and my friends. We’ve had some lovely meals with some Iraqis we met at Cannon Hill park and have kept in touch since. We only ever found their over-friendliness off-putting!
Blue_Bear, that’s not me you’re replying to! I haven’t commented on this thread for days!
It still makes more sense to me for them to go to a muslim country, they seem to want to remain the same in the UK & behave the way they do ‘back home’,going to a muslim country they would have it all laid on.
Mosques,Halal,Burkas,Sharia, etc etc…..
@ Trowbridge H. Ford:
Any chance that climate change also plays into this story? This scientist died under mysterious circumstances at an uncontrolled airport:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/leading-arctic-scientist-died-in-resolute-plane-crash-1.688765
Problem is, the uncontrolled airport was under military command at the time for an exercise involving the crash of a plane similar to the one that actually crashed that day, while they were in charge.
There’s a lot of money at stake from natural resources in the Arctic, and lots of countries wanting to claim it. There’s also no end of news stories about the Arctic ice melting.
@roger – thanks, it works. I doubt that anyone ever booked up at Maison Silver Fern. Looks too recently set up.
@james – cycling shoes you can’t run in? Depends on the pedal system/shoes.
Finally, what independent evidence do we have that ANYTHING happened up the Combe D’Ireo that day? No bodies, no indy witnesses, no photos of anyone, a strange funeral, vanishing web pages…silent and silenced media.
We have a fuzzy (two only) aerial photo of a car which could have been prepared.
Brett Martin exists. His face is only tied to realty by those suddenly and conveniently appearing photos of the Shoreham Triathlon. The Al-Hillis were camping at Annecy. They haven’t been seen since. The question I ask is why nothing has been provided to make me think that something DID happen.
All other info we have is from the the mouths of the security services/police. Why, for example, can’t a family, for whatever security reason, be pulled out and be given new identities? Is this any more ridiculous than the quite frankly bizarre massacre story?
I know I’m neurotic and prang but this sentence got flagged up by bullsh*t-filter:
Peter: “A random thought that just occurred to me. “.
Did it now..?
Larkin – very good poet – everyone did him at school, right? Didn’t like his politics, of course. I sometimes like to say that I was born in ‘Philip Larkin’s Town’ – Beverley, Yorkshire – because I think it might irritate the old codger no end, send him spinning in his deep, ston’d, churchen grave.
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Not saying I am a major devotee, but interested in the noir. Getting back into Kingsley Amis, just read his memoirs, trying to fathom Martin.
Bless.
Also, wrt population migration, religion is not the primary issue, economics is. People gravitate towards the money – jobs, opportunities. It’s the story of humanity.
You know, in Iraq, in the recent past for many people, the Sunni-Shia thing was nothing. I have pals who are Sunni Iraqis from Basra – they tell me there were no problems (actually, there had been problems periodically, but not for everyone and not so systemically) there until Saddam Hussein began to use the divide-and-rule tactic – though of course, imperial powers, too – Ottomans, British – had used it previously (yet again, think of Ireland).
Here is the key learning-point:
“The British colonial rule ended after the Sunni and Shia united against it.” (from Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a%E2%80%93Sunni_relations#Iraq