My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
If there isn’t a beamline at Cezus Ugine, would they send materials to ESRF in Grenoble, where there is synchrotron? It’s important to know that ESRF has junk food machines:
http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/junkfood/esrf03.jpg
This is purely random, and nothing to do with the death of Per Spanne on Swissair Flight 111, or anything really.
Re Brett Martin’s holiday home, about which there was some discussion earlier…
The house is owned by his company, Silver Fern (Sussex) Ltd (hence the name of the website advertising it). Silver Fern has, in the last two years, expanded its operations from just Futures & Options Trading to include Property Investment.
The money to finance it all has come from the directors alone, who are Mr & Mrs Martin, who’ve sunk £660k between them into it. There’s no mention of any interest repayments in the company accounts, so it looks like they must’ve put £640,000 into the company themselves as cold hard cash. If there was a bank loan there would be interest payments in the accounts and there are none.
Of this £600k, about £360k is in freehold property (the house in France, maybe others?) and the rest is in “stock” (prob futures/options) and a small amount in the bank.
The big question in my mind is where did the £660k come from to finance the company? And, why start up a company to invest in futures and options, the riskiest form of investment on the stock market?
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Awfully CLOSE to !
666 K !!! 🙂
I rest my case.
Grenoble is also home to the ILL neutron beamline, etc.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_Laue%E2%80%93Langevin
Peter Pow-pow-Power.
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Bingo!!
When this fuckers around
WATCH OUT ™ ! 😉
@ anders
four wives? Jeezus Christ.
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Yes.
I am faithful.
@Anders – You may remember me posts, such as the ones where I corrected you about Berettas and other posts where I demonstrated that I was unlikely to be working for the British secret services, due to the fact that I am Irish! But you probably will remember me most as the person who compared having a debate with you with playing chess with a pigeon.
It is nearly impossible for an ordinary person, who has a job, to keep up with this thread – and the main culprit is you, Anders. While I do not agree with everything that Peter has posted, his posts are a lot more rational and balanced than most other peoples. Peter is actually willing to accept that these murders could be state sponsored, whereas you are not willing to accept that they are not. If I wanted to convince Joe public that there was something fishy about these murders, I would not point them towards your postings. You have actually succeeded in making me want to believe the official line!
James is not secret service, and neither is Peter (although I do skim past all of James’ posts). The only person on this thread who has succeeded in turning people away, is you!
On another note – Adam Werrity seemed interested in Iran’s ability to block satellite TV broadcasts
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/the-al-hilli-conundrum/comment-page-21/#comments
And wtf is the story with that Trowbridge H. Ford dude? He has been in contact with the Iranians to give them information! Does no one else have a problem with this? Go live there – as a woman.
no, seriously … Brett Martin is a drainpipe merchant
http://www.brettmartin.com/en-gb/plumbing-and-drainage.aspx
———————-
call me Shirley 🙂
@Anders7777 21 Sep, 2012 – 1:19 am
Oh yeah, that’s right ..ex Superintendant Peter-pow-Power of the Dorzett Constabulary.
Scallywag.
Watch out indeed!
method to Ander’s madness
over 50 years ago the erosion of censorship in UK began when arch satirist, Peter Cook opened The Establishment Club in London’s SoHo. By making it a member’s club or something circumvented strict entertainment regulations and the lampooning of those in power began …. the birth of the reversed ‘V’ictory salute back to those who prefer to control everything …. remember that when you next dis Anders 🙂
@Anders – You may remember me posts, such as the ones where I corrected you about Berettas and other posts where I demonstrated that I was unlikely to be working for the British secret services, due to the fact that I am Irish! But you probably will remember me most as the person who compared having a debate with you with playing chess with a pigeon.
It is nearly impossible for an ordinary person, who has a job, to keep up with this thread – and the main culprit is you, Anders. While I do not agree with everything that Peter has posted, his posts are a lot more rational and balanced than most other peoples. Peter is actually willing to accept that these murders could be state sponsored, whereas you are not willing to accept that they are not. If I wanted to convince Joe public that there was something fishy about these murders, I would not point them towards your postings. You have actually succeeded in making me want to believe the official line!
James is not secret service, and neither is Peter (although I do skim past all of James’ posts). The only person on this thread who has succeeded in turning people away, is you!
On another note – Adam Werrity seemed interested in Iran’s ability to block satellite TV broadcasts
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/the-al-hilli-conundrum/comment-page-21/#comments
And wtf is the story with that Trowbridge H. Ford dude? He has been in contact with the Iranians to give them information! Does no one else have a problem with this? Go live there – as a woman.
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Funny that.
Everywhere I go the readership goes up on a logarithmic scale mate! 😉
Usually several thousand per cent matey boy! 🙂
Why?
‘Cos I can
SEE THRU THE BULLSHIT
QUITE RARE THESE DAZE
and folks know it
Top of the morning to you! 😉
over 50 years ago the erosion of censorship in UK began when arch satirist, Peter Cook opened The Establishment Club in London’s SoHo. By making it a member’s club or something circumvented strict entertainment regulations and the lampooning of those in power began …. the birth of the reversed ‘V’ictory
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Spot on!
I am very happy you see a VERY watered down Derek n Clive live cum Spike Milligan cum cutting edge FUCK YOU.
It is very refreshing!
Innit! 🙂
“this RAFman came up to me today, and said YOU CUNT!… I said what ?” 🙂
no nightshift at Legoland then tonight? must be the cuts 🙂 never trust a man who says ‘sorry’…or an excuse for one at that.. a man that is, or not, as the case may be…. in fact, he’s just a lame cunt really… ah well, must be the cuts
‘Now read his own words quoted verbatim from his TV interview & you’ll see just how absurd his story is.
“I saw the cyclist who I had seen much earlier & thought he was just having a rest. As I got a little bit closer a very young child stumbled out into the road & at first I just thought she was playing with her sibling. It looked from a distance that she was falling over larking about like a child would. However as I approached her it was obvious that she was quite badly injured & had a lot of blood on her.As I got even closer I saw the car’s engine revving & wheels spinning. It became evident…well it seemed as if there had been a terrible car accident.”‘
”
Quote from Wenlock29 here:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221659&page=68
If the words of B Martin are accurately quoted, how did he know that the ‘young child’ had a ‘sibling’ to play with? Supposedly the younger sister’s presence at the crime scene only came to light some eight hours later…
Apologies if this has been raised and dealt with before.
@Dls 21 Sep, 2012 – 3:58 am
Yes it has .. at length. It might be useful if you were to go back and actually read some of the earlier comments.
Anders would say EPIC FAIL ™ !
There’s a conference in Grenoble next month:
http://epdic13.grenoble.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article5
That’s probably as good a place as any to find out what kind of research goes on at Cezus Ugine, and who is doing it.
“this RAFman came up to me today, and said YOU CUNT!… I said what ?”
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Provocative Fucker! 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTifRi3qDkU
Regarding Martin’s ‘sibling’ comment” Anyone been in an auto accident or similar event where time seems to slow down? Anyone ever read Amanda Ripley’s book “The Unthinkable – Who Survives When Disaster Strikes – and Why” In it she describes how our brains will process events from past experiences- she describes being a passenger in a plane watching the wing on fire and how the brain tries to seek examples from past experience to piece it together: ah the wing is on fire that’s not a good thing. Military personnel have been trained to deal with such scenarios so I actually believe Martin based on:
1. he describes his immediate thought as he’s cycling into the scene-its atypical response given the physical context (tourist popular region Haute Savoie-forested alpine mountain road: tourists/kid playing in an area that would only be there with family ie tourist family) thought process that would take a millisecond if that because it would be an automatic brain adjustment: area-tourist popular; road- child’s weird movements brain absorbs the weird movement to take in as = child playing (Imean if the girl was squatting on the ground it would be girl peeing) hence his statement-he’s explaining, in words, something that his brain processed quicker than the time it takes to type 1 letter
2. His military background kicks in so he puts the girl on the recovery position. He turns off the car because thats the 1st thing anyone that has ever been a 1st responder/ trained in emergency procedures is taught when they come upon an auto accident/scene : turn off engine & check for vital signs
I’ve mentioned it before: the missing piece is what happened to the bike tray
@anon
nice post so bravo
i disagree and have PROVEN it: ref RAF riff, if you get my drift
we need to remember people were murdered
maybe
and lives shattered
taxpaying public are being conned, simple as,
no accountability
and racist!!!!!!
TWO ORPHANS
NARY A WORD SAID
PETITION THE CLAYGATE MP FOR ANSWERS!!!!!!!
if this was a white family massacred
all hell would be let loose
@ Anders
I’ve read what you think, but I stand behind what I think.
I don’t want to ask why until the who, what, when, I have answered solidly (then why)
In my line of work its called trying to disprove the Ho (statement of no consequence the status quo)by testing my assumption & measuring both with the probability the results are caused by other factors)
fair enough
@Anders again
Correlation does not equal causation: the classic statistical observation
It’s not about looking at the improbable but looking at the obvious
a standard time format for when did the family leave the campground? When did the witnesses hear shots. When was the 1st call placed (I think there were 2 calls by PD: the 1st to report what BM had said, the 2nd to report what he say once he went up there: call 1- a cyclist just came down from up the road & says there is a murder/etc
call 2-I’m reporting a murder scene
1st call: done on behalf of what BM reported
2nd call: done because (omg holy shit I jutt saw it too) he reported it
There’s something else fishy about Brett Martin’s website for his house. (Apart from him claiming to be doing DIY every morning on a house that looks pristine, that is.)
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.silverfernsussex.co.uk
No telephone number.
How many other holiday homes would you find with no contact number?
No rates either.
No booking form.
No “contact us” page.
Only an email address.
Odd.
Like… he doesn’t really want to do business?
Compare with eg {http://www.ownersdirect.co.uk/savoie.htm} where all rates are quoted (from £xxx per week) and non-geographic phone numbers for all owners.
If anyone thinks this is normal could you please post links to holiday homes with no contact telephone and no rates? (Obviously you are free to disagree but HARD DATA would help.)
PS. He signs his name WBrett by the looks of it. Anyone else think this is odd? Could his name really be William Brett?
I can’t leave the BM holiday home alone.
Is it beyond the bounds of reason that this is a fake project & website to give some protection and creedence to BM being “around” when it (whatever it is/was) was supposed to go off? Created just for this one-off? A reasonable expenditure perhaps.
Is there any way to know where that cottage is? And when it was last sold, and who the owner is? That “correct” Brighton registration visible at the cottage seems odd. Too perfect. Clearly somebody owns the car still – does it inhabit Lauriston Road? The house could be anywhere. Did anybody ever stay there? We don’t know.
My guess is that BM is in NZ now. I agree with Anders that the ex-RAF story would “do it” but it didn’t, so BM’s cover was blown. I agree that the story is a fairy tale. If BM really were an open and honest witness to everything he told the BBC, he would have given further interviews to other TV stations/radio stations and had interviews in newspapers.[he could have been on the Dave Allen show, Anders…] But no. To me, the story is a lie, and any further detail would risk creating further inconsistencies,as with the (fake again?) Philippe D story.
I remain convinced, in the absence of any positive evidence, that nothing happened as we are being led to believe. What did nurses/doctors see in the hospital in Grenoble? Anything? Nothing?
Out of interest, where is the nearest helicopter landing spot to the car park in the Combe D’Ire? I would be interested in knowing of any helicopter flights in the area that day.
Thirty people at the SM funeral? Pull the other one.
@Ferret – didn’t read your musings before I posted. We are moving along the same lines….
@Anders – I meant Gay Byrne.
Just for ref – the Google map reference for the cottage on the website (thanks Ferret) in Impasse François Decoux in Lathuile is
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Annecy,+France&hl=en&ll=45.780136,6.206004&spn=0.001998,0.003449&sll=35.020379,-116.803343&sspn=2.402153,3.532104&oq=annecy&t=h&hnear=Annecy,+Haute-Savoie,+Rhone-Alpes,+France&z=18
To recap –
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/chevaline-j-ai-pense-a-un-fou-qui-rodait-dans-la-foret-pour-tuer-tout-le-monde-14-09-2012-2164608.php
this link says BM had only owned the house for two years.
Anders7777, at 11:21pm on 20.9.12, Blue Bear, Ferret, Kathy and others, at various times around then around then: Yes, absolutely, very well said, and thanks.
These boards have ‘history’ on this subject, but I’ve seldom seen as blatant views as were expressed here yesterday evening, on this blog. In some ways, it is good that they were blatantly expressed, rather than written in code, or insinuated, because when written openly, they are easier to identify and tackle and less easy to defend or obscure.
I do find it fascinating that another one-time contributor to this blog also was originally a British person who had lived, as an immigrant, in another country for decades and who repeatedly claimed on these boards that over recent decades, “genocide” had occurred in Leicester, England, by which they meant that the South Asian population who live there had committed “genocide” – plainly, a ridiculous and obscene contention and usage.
We had a more recent, and prolonged, interaction around a similar area on the ‘Olympics’ thread in early August 2012, generated by discussion around the Opening Ceremony and its portrayal of British history, and also by the multi-ethnic, multi-religious nature of the UK’s Olympic medalists.
It’s important, I think, that threads not be taken over for this one agenda, and so I decided, last night, not to pursue the matter further on this thread. However, I think it is crucial that people are alert to the subject, its history here and the contextual framework and so I was very pleased this morning to note that people had not backed away from confronting such attitudes.
A family was murdered and someone pistol-whipped and shot a seven-year old child to within an inch of her life. Personally, I think the interpolation of the question of ‘why do these Muslims/Iraqis live in Britain in the first place?’ in this context reveals itself for what it is.
On the website (previous page) of Silverfern, two mountain bikes. I see no roof rack on the Audi,but might be rear slung. Off-road mountain bikes, with sporty saddle. Normal shoes worn probably on grippy pedals. But the bike looks immaculate, never ridden. No dirt at all on the tyres. Is it supposed to be a fitting of the cottage?
Morning All.
I have seen your message Anders, sorry to hear you’ve been used & abused…….which just proves after four tries, you ‘should’ stay out of the kitchen. 😉