My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@ Ferret
So you sound like you know what you’re talking about, gun-wise.
And that makes me a ballistics journalist, does it?
would you mind telling us all why you neglected to mention the 6.35mm which was also involved in the killings you tried to link to this case?
To quote myself (21 Sep, 2012 – 12:21 am): I am not for a moment suggesting that these two cases are related. They are almost certainly not related.</em
That constitutes trying to link those cases, in your view?
@M69
Don’t expect Katie to give up just because you have provided some actual evidence to prove her wrong.
:rolleyes:
If the past two days are anything to go by, she’ll just carry on providing more and more conjectures and unproven assumptions to support her earlier guesswork.
Eh, Katie?
😉
BTW, Katie, have you watched those videos yet which were posted yesterday, the ones you “didn’t have time to watch”, which showed people firing umpteen shots in a few seconds, you know, the ones which proved 25 shots could easily be fired off in 30 seconds, which you thought was impossible? (And don’t say “I didn’t say that”, because if you do I will repost your posts from yesterday to prove to everyone you are lying, once again.)
Apology or GTFO.
From the LePoint article
“Since the beginning of the investigation Chevaline several international letters rogatory sent by the French investigating judges have been denied by the British Ministry of the Interior (Home Office), because they were not sufficiently motivated given the English criminal law.”
UK not co-operating I read this as.
Cover up done, evidence removed, now lets play sleuth with Inspector Cleuseau.
Case closed.
@Peter 21 Sep, 2012 – 11:28 am
Thanks for that link. Here’s the full text.
‘ACTUALITÉ Société RSS
Tuerie de Chevaline : la création d’une équipe d’enquête franco-britannique envisagée
Le Point.fr – Publié le 21/09/2012 à 09:53 – Modifié le 21/09/2012 à 11:30
Le dispositif doit permettre de lisser les difficultés juridiques posées par les différences de culture entre les deux pays
Une équipe commune d’enquête franco-britannique destinée à lever les lourdeurs juridiques ralentissant les investigations sur la tuerie de Chevaline (Haute-Savoie) devrait être créée vendredi à Annecy sous l’égide de l’agence européenne de coopération judiciaire Eurojust, a indiqué le parquet d’Annecy. Cette équipe commune d’enquête (ECE) doit voir le jour vendredi soir, au terme d’une réunion entamée jeudi midi. Elle devrait être dirigée par les deux juges d’instruction français en charge de l’affaire et composée de procureurs britanniques du Crown Prosecution Service, des enquêteurs de la police du comté de Surrey et des gendarmes de la section de recherche de Chambéry.
La création d’une ECE va permettre de lisser les difficultés juridiques posées par les différences de culture existant entre les deux pays. “Il y a un choc de cultures juridiques qui rend les choses extrêmement lentes”, a ainsi expliqué le procureur de la République d’Annecy, Éric Maillaud. Depuis le début de l’enquête de Chevaline, plusieurs commissions rogatoires internationales adressées par les juges d’instruction français ont ainsi été refusées par le ministère de l’Intérieur britannique (Home Office), car elles n’étaient pas suffisamment motivées au vu du droit pénal anglais.
Dans le cadre de l’ECE, les commissions rogatoires internationales deviendront inutiles. Le travail d’enquête se fera “comme si on était dans un seul pays, d’enquêteur à enquêteur ou de juge à enquêteur”, selon Éric Maillaud. “Cela évite de passer des heures, voire des journées entières, à rédiger”, a-t-il expliqué. Créées par une convention européenne du 29 mai 2000, les ECE permettent d’échanger des renseignements, de mener des opérations d’investigations conjointes et de coordonner l’exercice des poursuites pénales.’
Note that it is reported The UK Home Office has refused to reply to several international ‘commissions rogatoires’ addresed to them by the French investigating judges on a technicality.
As for you ferret, you really do need to get a life & stop your personal vendetta. I threw you off my website years ago for your bullying style, bitterness clearly has remained.
Another lie.
Please post the website address so we can all see for ourselves?
😀
@Peter
Thanks for the reply, I’ve got to go out for an hour or two now but will try and reply when I get back, or this evening if not.
@Katie 21 Sep, 2012 – 12:17 pm
If you don’t know the difference between ‘taking out an injunction’ and ‘entering a caveat’, it’s clear you have not the least idea what you’re talking about!
EPIC FAIL ™!
I’d like to hear a British forensics expert give their opinion of the way the scene was treated. I’d then like to make a list of other crime scenes that have been treated in the same way.
@Ferret
I think we are in agreement in relation to the offline mode of the website.
@Straw
The “it was all staged to get them safely out” theory seems very unlikely to me. Mainly because of the 2 children and how they were treated differently. Why didn’t they fake them being shot too? The 2 children present too many loose ends; hospitals, shrinks, …what happens when they don’t go back to their relatives? It also requires quite a large cast of actors. Of course all these can be explained away by more theories, but it starts to become a less likely alternative.
Dokumentation re. the infamouas “wipe-of-the-map” controversy:
http://huffingtonpost.com/sam-sedaei/the-biggest-lie-told-to-t_b_70248.html
[Mod/Jon: URL fixed]
Mochyn, so you can’t accept what I’ve said as correct then ? Even though it is precisely the same as your link,you really shouldn’t let your ego blind you..
As for the word injunction, I do know the difference between that & caveat I think its you who does not understand that they CAN have the same meaning, however, the mail I see uses the word ‘block’.
Also, now that Saad Al-Hilli is dead this will becomes ever more complex & I do wonder how the Al-hilli family will proceed.
@Guy_Fawkes2010 21 Sep, 2012 – 12:19 pm
‘car elles n’étaient pas suffisamment motivées au vu du droit pénal anglais.’
.. because they (the international letters rogatory) did not give a sufficient reason (is maybe better than ‘motivated’) from the point of view of English criminal law.
Guy, could that mean the contents of the letters were just supposition & not factual or positive developments ?
@Kenneth Sorensen – if you want to sneak a URL past the filter, that’s fine – just wrap it in braces. That makes it a lot easier for readers to copy+paste into their browser. E.g. {http://huffingtonpost.com/sam-sedaei/the-biggest-lie-told-to-t_b_70248.html}
@Ferret/Katie – if animosities have been forged on another board, please don’t export them here. Focus on arguments, and please cut out the abusive language. If you don’t wish to interact with each other, politely say so and then engage with other people/points. Thanks.
I’ve been lurking on here for the last couple of days trying to catch up with all the posts!! Please slow down, I’m still about 3 pages behind!!!
#workgetsintheway
@Katie 21 Sep, 2012 – 1:02 pm
I beat you to it!
‘Il y a un choc de cultures juridiques ..’
There’s no point speculating further.
Thanks Jon. No problem for me .
Thanks for that Jon! You seems like a nice guy. If i ever come to Scotland we could have a nice time at a pub [providing we could agree on who will be paying for the round. Cause my family comes from West Jutland, and the people there are said to resemble Scots, with regards to their reputation money wise. But I guess each man could pay for himself, and problem solved!
Mochyn.
Oh dear…….no you did not , see my 11am posting.
Then drop it pleeeeeese !
@Mollie its ok we are running out of ideas, we need the assistance of a deep throat type character (no not that one), we need a Donald Sutherland from JFK, happy to meet them in a dodgy multi story car park scenario anytime as long as I can get some more info on this case!
We know AH had an excuse to go to France regularly , again could this be for covert purposes & have the French police checked for French bank accounts ?
Secret payments like that driver of Diana’s car,they found he had several bank accounts with large payments going in.
Has it been established – ie as a fact – that the AH family were towing their own caravan on this visit?
If they were, did they travel with it from the UK or pick it up en route at a French property (Gironde and Dordogne have both been mentioned) they owned ?
@Katie 21 Sep, 2012 – 1:18 pm
Duh, do try to keep up. Your 11 am posting says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about the commissions rogatoires!
Me: 21 Sep, 2012 – 12:54 pm @Guy_Fawkes2010 21 Sep, 2012 – 12:19 pm
‘car elles n’étaient pas suffisamment motivées au vu du droit pénal anglais.’
.. because they (the international letters rogatory) did not give a sufficient reason (is maybe better than ‘motivated’) from the point of view of English criminal law.
You: 21 Sep, 2012 – 1:02 pm ‘Guy, could that mean the contents of the letters were just supposition & not factual or positive developments ?’
Me: 21 Sep, 2012 – 1:12 pm: ‘@Katie 21 Sep, 2012 – 1:02 pm I beat you to it!
‘Il y a un choc de cultures juridiques ..’There’s no point speculating further.’
So you see whereas I was offering a simple factual analysis, you are dissembling.
EPIC EPIC FAIL ™!
Suggest : ‘back to basics’ …
4 adults (including 3 ‘muslims’) shot dead ‘assassination-style’ in remote france – poor mobile connexions,etc.
1 young girl on scene pistol whipped and otherwise injured but left alive – by killer who is seemingly otherwise ‘unscrupulous’ and ‘to know job’.
Even younger girl found cowering on scene (for many hours – reportedly unnoticed by first on scene and initial investigating ‘authorities’).
First on scene (reportedly) is ex-raf ‘phantom pilot’ – new zealand ‘muscular christian’ brit empire /etablishment background definitely (ie certainly brit state ‘stooge’, whether or not card-carrying ‘agent’).
Shooting victims include …
Iraq-born ‘refuge’ to uk with background in …
@Peter
Here’s your entire post, below. You know, for someone who didn’t want to link these two crimes, you sure did a good job of making it look like you did!
🙂
So… your point was, this was what might give a German the thought that it *might* have been an anti-Islamic crime.
OK, that’s fair enough. But if so, why bother to mention the 7.65mm (same caliber as Al-Hilli) but omit the other details which are NOT similar, eg 6.35mm weapon, number of victims in one hit, and so on?
So… would you mind actually answering my question?
Did you know about these details and deliberately omit them, or did you not know about them?
Peter
21 Sep, 2012 – 12:21 am
Regarding my earlier point about what political implications there might be for the police if they suspected that the Chevaline murders might have an islamophobic background, I have subsequently tried to clarify that, but my comment took some time to pass moderation.
Allow me to clarify a little more why the *possibility* of these murders *perhaps* being motivated by islamophobic ressentiment occurred to me. Not long ago, a mysterious series of murders targeting “islamic-looking” men all over Germany (one of them in fact was a Greek) was cleared up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders
All the victims were shot at close range to the face with a silenced 7.65 pistol purchased in Switzerland. The murderers were hardcore right-wing terrorists, but, for many years, nobody but the terrorists themselves and a few of their helpers had the slightest inkling that these murders might be motivated by islamophobia. The police pursued pretty much every possible avenue of inquiry except that one.
Now, despite the superficial similiarities, namely a silenced 7.65 pistol purchased in Switzerland used against muslim victims, I am not for a moment suggesting that these two cases are related. They are almost certainly not related. However, still reading about that German murder series almost every day in the papers (it turns out that those killers were courted by the german security services and military intelligence, that some of their helpers were on the payroll of the security services and that a security service officer was actually present at the scene of one of the murders) makes us Germans perhaps more likely than citizens of other nations to *think of* islamophobia as a *possible* motive for such a seemingly inexplicable murder.
@Katie
The fact is Iraq did not have sharia law which implies some old imam interpreting the Quran. Iraq was a modern secular state with law based on it’s constitution, not the Quran. Of course Islam was it’s religion and would shape the law to a degree just as Christianity shapes the law in Christian countries also to a degree. Secular means separation of religion and state.
The term, Sharia is a bit loaded as it is usually referred to by Islamophobes to discredit Islam.
@M69
See what I mean? Head, brick wall, bash?
@Jon
@Ferret/Katie – if animosities have been forged on another board, please don’t export them here.
They have not! Jon, this is quite simply an outright lie by Katie. I have challenged her to post the link to the website she claimed this happened on. She hasn’t, which I think says it all. It’s quite simply invented, like most of the other bilge she posts here.
If you can’t spot that, well… goodness.
:shrug:
Over to you, “Katie”… how about that “link”?
Katie, have you watched the Power of Nightmares by Adam Curtis?
What kind of forum/website did you run Katie?
Having been an ‘irrregular’ visitor to this site for some time, i could not be trusted to …