My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
“The feud could well emanate from the difference in laws.”
Yeah, them darkies are always squabbling over money aren’t they…
Try and come up with something that doesn’t play on people’s fears, yeah..?
@M69
And BTW, good post!
😀
@Kathy
What, Katie, an Islamophobe? Goodness… shurley not???
😀
@Roger
Glad we are in agreement re the website.
Re Extraction, I agree it’s far-fetched and would seemingly require a vast cast of actors etc etc… I cannot think of a way it could be done without requiring a vast conspiracy including the local gendarmerie, which I don’t think is feasible.
But that doesn’t mean it should be ruled out.
Maybe someone can help out with how it could’ve happened with a minimum of insiders? It’s beyond me.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
“is utter tosh. If a gang had “circled” that car and fired through the side windows, they would have ended up shooting one another. That journalist is obviously unfamiliar with the concept of fields of fire.”
@Peter. You must be unfamiliar with lines of fire. To discount a team on the basis of ‘they would end up shooting each other’ is one of the more ridiculous things i’ve read here. Victims were sitting, shot from above from a standing position in the forehead. How on earth do i end up shooting my team member while aiming down and away from him ?
@ Ferret
Did you know about these details and deliberately omit them, or did you not know about them?
Although this is becoming ever so slightly tiresome, I shall humour you once more: I knew about these details but didn’t post them because the posting was already long enough, it was late and I was on my way to bed.
If I had wanted to make something of those “superficial similarities” between the two cases, I could have thrown a few more into the mix. For example, the NSU terrorists’ preferred vehicles were a *camper van* and *bicycles*. (They had quite a clever MO: They would park their camper van a short distance away from the scene of their planned crimes, cover the remaining distance on their bikes and, after the deed was done, return to their camper van, stash their bicycles and sit tight inside inside their camper until the police roadblocks and dragnet search had been discontinued.) There, you didn’t know that, did you?
Thus, if had wanted to link those two cases, I could have made a much better job of it. Yet that was not my intention. It still isn’t. I think that the two cases are wholly unrelated. However, I also think that the hypothesis that the AH murders might have been motivated by xenophobic sentiment (which was initially mooted by investigators as an outlier hypothesis) should not be discarded entirely, however slim the chances of it being true may be.
Re roger
Although it happens in western europe
It is an unusually off the map (outside digital networks, etc) part of …
@ jon
@Ferret/Katie – if animosities have been forged on another board, please don’t export them here. Focus on arguments, and please cut out the abusive language. If you don’t wish to interact with each other, politely say so and then engage with other people/points. Thanks.
………………
Jon, it’s Ferret (or rather ferret/blue bear) who is being particularly aggressive and obnoxious right now, and not just towards Katie.
Jon, it’s Ferret (or rather ferret/blue bear) who is being particularly aggressive and obnoxious right now, and not just towards Katie.
Ha ha very funny.
🙂
We both already denied that ridiculous assertion, Dopey, as much as you may have a little love-in going on with Katie.
C’mon Katie, where’s that link?
@ Bilbo Mortdecai
Oh dear. I am somewhat familiar with lines (although arcs or fields would be better words in this context, IMHO) of fire, unlike that journo. “Circling” the car, as suggested, would have been sheer madness. If there had been multiple shooters at work, they would ideally have approached the vehicle from the side, one taking the front, the other taking the back, perhaps another one facing the road to deal with any eventual trouble coming from that direction.
However, at no point would they have “circled” the car, stepping into one another’s arcs of fire. Moreover, the fact that there are, as far as I could see, no exit holes in the bodywork, only in the side windows, suggests that he/they did not shoot downwards, but more or less horizontally. Likewise, there is such a thing as ricochets, which you can even get off bone and teeth (which, if you are unlucky, can also theselves turn into lethal projectiles).
@Peter
If I had wanted to make something of those “superficial similarities” between the two cases, I could have thrown a few more into the mix
What are you trying to say here, Peter? Do you think the Al-Hilli killers escaped on bicycles and hid in a camper van? What camper van? The 4×4?!? Very confused!
And how much longer would it have made your original post to include half a sentence about a 6.35mm weapon being used as well? As you say, it was quite a long post. I hate to be disagreeable, but it still seems to me like you were being selective with facts to falsely associate the two crimes in the minds of the reader, while saying you weren’t in your words.
Just my opinion – you are welcome to yours.
Extraction is to me the most likely at present but I would like to find some evidence to blow that out of the water.
Difficult with no further information being announced whatsoever.
Why no information is being released only seems to enforce the likelihood of a massive cover-up or as Brett said it’s just like Hollywood/right out of a movie/like CSI.
If we believe we are being lied to will that force their hand? I hope so.
whats that…that high pitched squealing, scratching and scrabbling about in here. I think we have mice or rats in the forum…or just a ferret, which seems to be breeding. Anyone got a number for a good pest control firm?
@Dopey
07932 555 04Q2
😀
Katie, where’s that link?
And why’s Dopey replying for you??
Pipe down Dopey. Your nonsense doesn’t work on me. For a start off I always suspected Ferret was an Anders’ alias – but apparently he’s one of mine.
I’m not sure I’m being aggressive – just openly suspicious of:
1. Distraction tactics by those who want to stir up base emotions and lead discussion away from the case – possibly paid employees of some organisation or other, maybe the press.
2. The infiltration of the site by those on the right who want to air their old-fashioned views based on race/religion etc.
I’ve also been insulted by Peter’s overly-naive and simplified version of events to suspiciously fall in line with the ever-changing official narrative. If he’s such an expert I’d like to know why he thinks the assassins would have the stupidity to shoot each other. He’s insulted our intelligence to maintain a narrative that can be picked up by people occasionally dropping in to this site. He’s also (admittedly along with Anders who I am yet to deem 100% trustworthy) put people off this site as it is so obviously nothing to do with purely race. If they thought it was about a local, racist nutter we’d have seen a completely different set of procedures by the coppers for a start.
I am certainly not Ferret. Blue because I support the Blues, Bear because I live in Bearwood, Brum. But if it makes you feel better we are the same. As I said, I don’t trust Anders, but his forecast of how this thread will be infiltrated and derailed has come true and his line hasn’t changed. All the other “characters” here are playing the roles the company asks of them.
You’ll also notice that I am obsessive about grammar and punctuation. Ferret and Anders are not.
I’ve also got a lot of time on my hands and am not going anywhere for a while I’m afraid. Until Craig makes a blog-post about the Planning Law changes, that is, then you’ll find me there.
B_B
@Straw
If we believe we are being lied to will that force their hand? I hope so.
Amen to that. It’s hard to see what would/could appear to “knock it on the head”, as it were.
Re the children being left etc, that could be argued both ways, in that it’s so cruel to the kids that it’d be (almost) unimaginable to do it (disappear the parents, falsely). But then again, maybe even that’s made up too. We just don’t know.
I expect there should be something in the news soon about them going back to school, to rejoin their classmates, shouldn’t there? Who’s going to look after them, is it uncle?
Peter – you are somewhat familiar are you. didnt somebody say you were a ballistics expert ? somewhat expert therefore? You simply cannot assert that a team of gunman could not have ‘circled’ / surrounded (same difference) the car and shot the occupants without shooting each other. it is just absolute nonsense, unless you are an appalling shot and have no idea how to use a gun. It might be difficult, it might be dangerous but it’ still perfectly possible. Oh dear indeed.
“The bullet could ricochet”. Yes it could but then again there are different bullets for different jobs and i’d suggest if we are to believe what has been reported about the extent of the injuries to the faces those bullets weren’t going to ricochet anywhere. You’re a ballistics expert so you know exactly what i’m talking about.
@ferret
Strange websites.
1. How on earth would one have found the cottage at 215F Impasse Francois Decoux? Not a good business model. (How did Mollie Malone find the house no? I don’t see it on the cached pages which are linked)
That Ashley Mays website is very strange – see also Arcan [sic] Textiles.
Arcane Textiles seems as impenetrable as Silver Fern. Address elsewhere in Southampton,32 Warsash Road.. not that they are connected…another strange business model.Check their motto!
http://www.arcanetextiles.com/our-services.html
Is this the next door neighbour of Brett Martin? Or the front house (seem to be two on the plot from Satellite pics):
Esposito Sylvie
215 G imp François Decoux 74210 LATHUILE
04 50 05 28 8
Re ‘children left behind’
Could you?
Would you?
But consider …
Distant weapons …
Cruise
Drone
Apache +
+ and why has brit state/establishmen made so.much of the ‘hero’ ($sic) apache helicotper pilot / aka ‘mass murderer ‘
‘Harry wales’ ?!
Guy
Re “There’s also a small airport at Chamberey less than an hour from the site. Was trying to get historical flight data from there last week. Any ideas of sites that will have this”
Try the FBO at Chambery (for business jets).
But remember, there are quite a few airports in that area !
A great investigation report!
This story is like the London subway bombing story recounted here –
The Truth About the London Bombings
http://www.scribd.com/doc/92519279/The-Truth-About-the-London-Bombings
All point to intelligence service dramatization for propaganda uses.
@Ricki Tarr
21 Sep, 2012 – 11:09 am
Thanks for the Telegraph link. I did not realise how many shrills for war against Iran there were amongst staff and ever more so commentators at the Telegraph. Well they were right about Iraq’s WMDs so much be right about Iran’s nukes.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” —President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
Actually, before I was going to “poo poo” this idea of “the flight to safety”…from Geneva or Chambery.
But then remembered. There was a “helicopter” to Grenoble right.
Has that hospital got a helipad ? (it must have ?
Or did it go into Isere (Grenoble) ????
Thank-you Dopey.
I shall not be responding & the link request is purely because he knows it’s a private/closed site & so it will not be brought here .
Let him incriminate himself, that is my final word on this,
Distant weapons
Cruise
Drone
Apache …
And why do you think british state/establishment has made so much of late of the ‘flawed hero’ (sic) aka ‘harry wales’
@apache helicoptef pilot
Call him what you will(s)?!
Reply to CD.
RE: The caravan.
A neighbour who was interviewed said the caravan ‘ had not been at the house for about two weeks’.
ferret,
Why the kids were kept alive.
I believe the convoy of hearses left the crime scene in the early morning seen in many videos, not dark but headlights were on. So about 17 hours after the shooting. Whether the bodies left in the hearses or in the tarped car itself. If this is all a charade the children couldnt play dead all that time and so had to be removed. Unfortunately different parties failed to agree how this was to be done. So different stories about being alive or dead and how injured they were.
Maybe the adults were given something to knock them out.
Believable? Scarcely
Possible? Yes
By the way anybody see a bicycle or 2 being removed from the scene?
@Felix The website is just strange!
Arcane textiles
Requiring secret knowledge to be understood mysterious esoteric
arcānus m. (feminine arcāna, neuter arcānum); first/second declension
1.hidden, secret, private
2.intimate, personal, confidential
3.trustworthy (to keep a secret)
Katie, I did politely ask what kind of website you used to have. Surely it wouldn’t be too much effort to tell me..? I can link you all of my websites in return…
Where is the best place on the net to see any photographic evidence of the bodies/body-bags? Bearing in mind the BBC were happy to show the bodies of the two dead coppers under the tarp in the house in Manchester.
Sorry Kathy , you are way off the ball there.
Look up the countries which DO practice Sharia law. It’s very real & in no way is a fabrication of Islamophobes.
I’m mystified as why you think it is, there’s 85 Sharia courts in the UK alone.
@Straw
Believable? Scarcely
Possible? Yes
Thanks for that scenario, appreciated.
@Katie
I shall not be responding & the link request is purely because he knows it’s a private/closed site & so it will not be brought here
That’s another load of Katie’s bollocks, folks!
😀
I haven’t got a clue what website it even IS!!!
Katie, if it’s closed, at least post the website address, and the user id you claim I was was using when you claim to have banned me. And your user id. And the rough period when you claim I was banned. Then people can sign up to that website if they wanted to, and go and check.
Truth is, you made that up, didn’t you?
You are a bold faced liar and you have been caught out, once again.
Apologise, or GTFO.
Please say it’s this site:
http://www.katie.com