My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
I’d also ask SAH for a towell, to sit on, and up my back, to stop ruining his front seat. German cars are also notorious for low headroom, dunno about beemers but my VW beetles, Porsche 911s, and Merc, are all the same. Cap would be hitting the headlining.
Thanks Trow for the quick reply. I’ll be back in a mo, gotta get another Stella to refuel, wink James! 😉
Actually, Anders7777’s points wrt weather warfare has some basis in serious discourse; there is no question that the USA has being trying to develop, and experimenting with, such technology for a long time. Remember their well-documented microbial tests over US towns?
Mind you, here in Scotland, it sometimes feels as though one is engaged in constant, low-grade guerrilla warfare against the weather!
Kathy, at 2:34pm on 22.9.12 – many thanks, that piece you pasted makes some very very interesting and relevant points. There is much about this case that stinks.
Oh, I see Anders what while I was writing my previous post, you were commenting about having me by the balls, and not even having started squeezing them yet.
You sound more and more like that jamtjim libeller who is afraid to identify himself on The Local for fear that I shall sue him – and I shall if I ever learn who he is, and is worth suing for defamation.
Now over to you!
@Suhayl
Yes, I thought it was quite thought-provoking. Zak is a renowned psychic and psychological profiler and has worked/ works with the British police.
Oh, I see Anders what while I was writing my previous post, you were commenting about having me by the balls, and not even having started squeezing them yet.
You sound more and more like that jamtjim libeller who is afraid to identify himself on The Local for fear that I shall sue him – and I shall if I ever learn who he is, and is worth suing for defamation.
Now over to you!
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Have no fear that I am jammyjim! You are quite welcome to sue me if you so desire, then I would use “discovery”, and blow you away, do a CRYOSAT HAARP on you! 🙂
DON’T MESS WITH THE SAS ™ ! 🙂
@Trowbridge
Thanks very much for the explanation and clarification.
Little wonder that the Pentagon went ballistic when the ESA talked about these satellities’ capabilities, and had al-Hilli and Mollier murdered when they tried to help them out.
Them = Iran?
If so, then in ferret-speak (an animal of little brain but not a little cunning) it would translate as something like this:
“SAH & SM were going to tell the Iranians how the cryosat worked, so the Iranians could hide their underground facilities from the USA’s earthquake weapons. So the USA had SAH & SM taken out, either via the RAFP or the Mossad”.
(Which begs the question, why not CIA?)
Is this about right?
@Q
Looking back at news in the past year, this came up:
http://isis-online.org/isis-reports/detail/no-visible-evidence-of-explosion-at-esfahan-nuclear-site-adjacent-facility-/
Zirconium mentioned.
Very interesting… apparently Israeli intel said the explosion was no accident…
So the Iranians have a Zirconium production plant (aerial picture in linked article).
Rumour was, they were having trouble getting the Zirconium right for a NPP – so maybe needed input from Ugine via SM?
@Anders
First thing I’d do if I was Sylvain sitting next to SAH is take off my cycling cap, put it on the dash, and ask SAH to turn the a/c to the max, engine running, then I’d point the vents at my face.
Yes. That is, IF Sylvain had actually cycled up the hill at all.
BM is the only witness that places him as cycling up, as Wenlock keenly picked up, and BM is hardly a reliable witness.
Perhaps SAH picked BM up during his 3 hr “missing” period from 12 till 3? And perhaps they were all waiting for someone else, otherwise why go up there to the lonely mountain road?
But either way, certainly SM being shot IN the car explains the lack of blood IN FRONT of the car where BM says he found SM’s body.
I’m still not convinced that anything happened in the lay-by. Baseball cap in car – sloppy work? deliberate plant? Again, i ask, why only these two long range aerial photos which were widely circulated??
The scrum of journalists at the bottom of the route is perhaps a diversion. Why wouldn’t all the exciting stuff come up the Route du Moulin * away from the pack?
Perhaps the well-photographed Funeral ambulances of Pompes funèbres Peche
http://www.pompes-funebres-pechsarl.fr/pompes-funebres-faverges
were another smokescreen. Employees (unless the vehicles were “hired” to another agency) of this firm would be “in the know”. They might just have been doing a dummy run? Obviously they’ have to be kept quiet, a bit like the hospital.
The BMW had to have just enough side skirt showing to prove that it was a burgundy coloured BMW. Another photo op. I ask again, what hard evidence is there that anything happened up the Combe D’Ire???
* Jean-Marc Ducos, in the Parisien of 13.09.12, speculated that Sylvain Mollier climbed up the Moulin route since neither the bricklayers at 857 Route de la Combe d’Ire nor the owner of the Duchers farm saw either cyclist.
@ferret
The link to the French article which says that no witness saw the cyclists climb the hill is
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/la-tuerie-de-chevaline-a-l-epreuve-du-chronometre-13-09-2012-2162933.php
Sorry if this is old hat – the Bricklayers’ address stood out for me as a new source.
BM is the only witness that places him as cycling up, as Wenlock keenly picked up, and BM is hardly a reliable witness.
Perhaps SAH picked BM up during his 3 hr “missing” period from 12 till 3? And perhaps they were all waiting for someone else, otherwise why go up there to the lonely mountain road?
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Indeed.
I postulated something similar a day it two ago, that possibly SAH gave his HANDLER RAFman ™ a LIFT in his Beemer.
So yes it could work that way too, SAH and Sylvain drive up, RAFman is already there. One hour if talks, or no talks, or everything is. FAIRYTALE ™ 🙂
We are getting there. 🙂
Think them = Iran, and much more importantly China which has been hoping its cloud cover would help hide the new underground facilities it is building, but which the cryostat-2 satellities can even penetrate.
The NRO’s Misty satellities have outlived their earthquake- making abilities, as the new Iranian underground facilities have to be penetrated by bunker-busting bombs, and tactical nuclear weapons.
I have no problem with the CIA having done what it failed to do when arranging the killing of Palme – i. e., getting retired service personnel, especially retired SAS and RAF officers, to do the job.
And Anders, you will just have to squeeze much harder because I’m not feeling a thing.
Parking place – is this 779 metres (region 779 PC) altitude??
http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/51396/fr/pointe-de-banc-plat-montagne-du-charbon-par-la-combe-d-ire
Photograph in this article of the relatives leaving the hospital after visiting Zeena.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/22/alps-murder-victims-pasts-probed-by-cops.html
Katie won’t be pleased that they are not wearing “burkas”!!!
BMW Tracking
Foil car thieves and recover your BMW with BMW Tracking: the integrated transmitter lets your BMW quickly be located in the event of a theft.
…
Once confirmed, or if the owner cannot be contacted, the BMW Tracking Call Centre alerts the police and provides precise GPS location data, so the vehicle can be swiftly recovered.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/technology_guide/articles/bmw_tracking.html
Anyone know when this was introduced? Or if it was on SAH’s BMW?
(BTW I think we have been misinformed on this subject, AFAIR people here many days ago said it was impossible to track a car by its GPS because GPS is a receiver not a transmitter. Technically of course they are right, but it seems the BMW has, or can have, a coupled transmitter, so it might have been tracked by BMW. Possibly people then didn’t know about this, or I have a poor memory!)
Just a request…
Could you please be a little less inflammatory in the tone of your questions?
Sure, if it pleases you. I’m a scientist and engineer by background. I know what causes earthquakes and was just interested to know how they could be trigged by HAARP.
Anders’ subsequent posts didn’t answer the question but then I never really expected that they would.
Funny Kathy I just found photos of the 4 women leaving the hospital (different photos but same time) dated 11/9/12 strange that we only see them 11 days later.
I also started searching photographer “Jean-Pierre Clatot” photos for the first few days
He took 1 photo of a road sweeper on 6/9/12 going to the crime scene ‘to clean the place around the car”
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-GB&family=editorial&assetType=image&ebd=2012-08-23&mt=photography&p=FRANCE-BRITAIN-CRIME-SHOOTING
@Trowbridge
Thanks once again.
I have no problem with the CIA having done what it failed to do when arranging the killing of Palme – i. e., getting retired service personnel, especially retired SAS and RAF officers, to do the job.
Me neither.
Trouble is, I just don’t buy BM as the killer. Spotter maybe, or back-watcher, or whatever the phrase is. Cleaner-upper has been proposed here also (Anders). Perhaps a whole RAFP hit team?
The thing that also has to be explained is why the UK would scramble 20+ spooks from Gay Paris double-quick…
Is SAH then a UK asset, being offed by the USA without the UK’s knowledge or approval? Hardly seems credible. The UK would have to get him to France… and if the UK were “in the know”, why scramble so many spooks?
I can’t reconcile it.
More about the ZPP here:
http://muqata.blogspot.ca/2011/11/breaking-explosion-rocks-iranian-city.html
It sounds similar to the Cezus production line.
@Kempe
Sure, if it pleases you.
Thanks
🙂
I’m a scientist and engineer by background.
Me too. Well, scientist, anyway.
I know what causes earthquakes and was just interested to know how they could be trigged by HAARP.
Anders’ subsequent posts didn’t answer the question but then I never really expected that they would.
It was too long for me to read, so I can’t judge.
Look, to be honest, when I first heard about HAARP causing earthquakes I sniggered incredulously. Like… yeah, right. As I did (and still do sometimes) when I hear outlandish new claims being made.
But I’m less incredulous now.
(And I mean… a Hafnium weapon… had anyone heard about that until a few days ago?)
Anyhoo… I still haven’t found an explanation of HOW it works, but then it is supposedly SECRET isn’t it… so they wouldn’t go posting it on the internet… And, just because we don’t know HOW it works, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work. Mind you, it doesn’t mean that it does work, either!
For that matter, how do Trowbridge’s laser-sats work to cause earthquakes? I’ve no idea either.
@Felix
Thanks once again – you are a mine of useful links!
🙂
Re the witnesses, yes, the builders saw SAH’s estate around 3pm, they remember cos they had to get out of the way and he nodded to them as thanks.
BUT
“Nobody has seen either the rider Sylvain Mollier, who may have gone up by the Route du Moulin, on the other side of the valley, nor the British cyclist who was the first to discover the bodies.”
It also has this gem:
“The police also have to trace the path of the family, from his mobile phone and the GPS from his BMW Estate.”
(Which is why I’m asking about the GPS thingy in the BMW, I can’t find when it was introduced to see if was on SAH’s beemer.)
Re the front seat passenger theory. Wasn’t the child seat reported as being in the front seat. Can it be seen in the blown up pictures ?
@Anders – deleted two very large posts from you, regarding HAARP – I’ve asked you before to hyperlink, or at least to correctly attribute sources. Since these are largely off-topic, please link – duplicate the text to a pastie.org board if you are worried about the original disappearing.
@Straw
Thanks for the Clatot link…he seems to be the “official photographer” for this caper. Funny how he noticed the “relatives” emerging from a side entrance (I suppose it is meant to be..)
@Ferret – yes, that road sweeper is interesting – nobody else found it.
Question remaining – how did the press know the ages of the children when even the next day the British Ambassador said he didn’t even know their nationalities? He was only assuming. Yet the media had correctly guessed the relationships of the people in the car (allegedly). Strange.
Some more witnesses – or non-witnesses – here :
http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Faits-divers/Actualite/Le-scenario-minute-par-minute-de-la-tuerie-de-Chevaline-555890
Thierry Boinet à Annecy, Stéphane Joahny – Le Journal du Dimanche
samedi 15 septembre 2012
See names “John & Vivienne Beweek” (odd name) melvin & his dad Franck, and “Laurent”
“A neighbor and friend in Surrey, Gary Aked, told British investigators that Al-Hilli spent hours online ranting in anti-Semitic chatrooms, according to the Mirror, which interviewed Aked. “When I heard Saad and Iqbal had been murdered my first thought was, ‘What has he said?’ ‘What has he done?’” according to the paper. Whether he incited an angry Internet troll in a chatroom debate is another thread the police are keen to unravel.” [from The Daily Beast piece: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/22/alps-murder-victims-pasts-probed-by-cops.html%5D
I’d like to ask all the ‘fellow-ranters’ here (I use the term in its most affectionate sense), is that the first thing that would occur to one if one had heard that a ‘fellow-ranter’ friend and their family had been murdered? ‘Oh, an internet troll must’ve done it!’ I don’t think so.
There are nasty, paid and unpaid, naughty-boy (and this type seem usually to be men) gangs, litigious and other species of troll on the web. I’m sure that over the course of time, we’ve encountered all types of troll on this, whistleblower’s, blog. But in the political context, the really dangerous people on the web – the physically dangerous people – tend not to be ‘lying trolls’, who (whether or not they are working for someone) are usually just sad geeks like you and I, but ‘utterly sincere’ people like Anders Breivik, who make no secret of their views. One would not have described someone like Breivik a a troll, but a fanatic.
Crumbs, I never thought I’d have something positive to say about internet trolls! They tend not to be murderers.
Think them = Iran, and much more importantly China which has been hoping its cloud cover would help hide the new underground facilities it is building, but which the cryostat-2 satellities can even penetrate.
The NRO’s Misty satellities have outlived their earthquake- making abilities, as the new Iranian underground facilities have to be penetrated by bunker-busting bombs, and tactical nuclear weapons.
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I’ll give you a CLUE dear Trowbridge. Or should that be UPBRIDGE! 🙂
You speak in RIDDLES ™ sir!!! 🙂
ANDERSJIMMYJAMMY ™ is on your case sir!!!
I have mopped the floor with less men than you sir!!! 😉
Korea?
Ptahh
@Anders – deleted two very large posts from you, regarding HAARP – I’ve asked you before to hyperlink, or at least to correctly attribute sources. Since these are largely off-topic, please link – duplicate the text to a pastie.org board if you are worried about the original disappearing.
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I’m being didactic Jon.
Just a request…
Could you please be a little less inflammatory in the tone of your questions?
Sure, if it pleases you. I’m a scientist and engineer by background. I know what causes earthquakes and was just interested to know how they could be trigged by HAARP.
Anders’ subsequent posts didn’t answer the question but then I never really expected that they would.
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I answered your idiotic questions but I was nobbled.
This highlights the close connection between Surrey Satellite Technology Limited and the British space program:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_space_programme
This shows the role of hafnium and zirconium as heat shields in re-entry heat shields:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_launch_system
A newer Thermal Protection System (TPS) technology was first developed for use in steering fins on ICBM MIRVs. Given the need for such warheads to reenter the atmosphere swiftly and retain hypersonic velocities to sea level, researchers developed what are known as SHARP materials, typically hafnium diboride and zirconium diboride, whose thermal tolerance exceeds 3600 C. SHARP equipped vehicles can fly at Mach 11 at 30 km altitude and Mach 7 at sea level. The sharp-edged geometries permitted with these materials also eliminates plasma shock wave interference in radio communications during reentry. SHARP materials are very robust and would not require constant maintenance, as is the case with technologies like silica tiles, used on the Space Shuttle, which account for over half of that vehicles maintenance costs and turnaround time. The maintenance savings alone are thus a major factor in favor of using these materials for a reusable launch vehicle, whose raison d’etre is high flight rates for economical launch costs.