My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Slightly OT – by amazing coincindence, J-P Clatot has been photographing tandem paragliding this weekend.
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/paragliders-land-on-their-tandem-bicycle-on-september-22-news-photo/152569307
re tandems on roofracks – there will normally be some kind of swivel or hinge mechanism to get the tandem down – much more difficult to lift down simply like a mountain or road bike would be.
@Peter
23 Sep, 2012 – 1:39 pm
Fair comment .. about not relying on the likes of Demain and the DM as evidence of anything!
@Peter
I notice you attack the weakest part of the argument, namely the description by the locals.
I think, however, “even” local yokels in France could be relied upon to spot a “military type”, don’t you? Hint: they wear a UNIFORM.
And “even” a local yokel in France could count to the enormous number of VINGT (20). Hint: it’s one more than 19.
A typical Straw Man attack (qv)
What you don’t address at all the fact that the claim of Intelligence Officers being sent from the British Embasssy in Paris, after being tipped off by the French Interior Ministry, whose source isn’t quoted in the article.
Intelligence officers from the British Embassy in Paris are said to have been at the scene of the murder hours after it happened.
They were tipped off by contacts in the French Interior Ministry as soon as the identity of the car’s owner was confirmed. According to the French TV station Demain, locals described embassy staff as being ‘military types’ and numbering around 20.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199670/Saad-Al-Hilli-shooting-French-Alps-Was-hitman-Each-British-victims-shot-TWICE-cyclist-witness-FIVE-times.html
Evening Standard
Intelligence officers from the British Embassy in Paris are said to have been at the scene of the murder.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/brother-of-alps-massacre-victim-to-be-quizzed-by-french-police-8116658.html
@ Ferret
That last article from the Standard is an instance of a journalist quoting another journalist quoting another journalist quoting the aforementioned villagers.
Without wishing to labour this point to death (actually, I do think it likely that UK intelligence were called to the scene at some point, only that they would not have been military types or that there would have been twenty of them): If they had been in uniform, they would most likely have been described as “soldiers”. To me, “military types” sounds more like a description of fit young men with close-cropped hair wearing civilian clothing.
It all comes down to all honest and righteous men and women refusing to have anything more to do with Israel! It is simply too great a risk for the world to have these people governing themselves. Some say: O, it’s a pity, these people have suffered so much in the past. Excuse me! Nobody are proposing that a single hair will be curved on their heads. there will be amble time to seek new pastures. Everyone must accept that the Zionist dream was nothing but a dream, that has turned into a nightmare for the Palestinians. And the risk when this entity goes about deciding for itself is simply too great for the international community.
And take it easy! Nobody are proposing anything radical! There will be amble time to emigrate to The United States, for example, which undoubtedly will be the preferred destination for may
@Peter
23 Sep, 2012 – 2:10 pm
Actually it could be an ‘on the record’ or ‘off the record ‘briefing.
Is this Sylvain Mollier – is he political?
http://solidariteprogres73.elunet.fr/index.php/tag/COMIT%C3%89%20DE%20SOUTIEN
Also mentions a Roger Mollier.
Re the Satelittes-It is funny as when I did some research into SSTLs last launch it was shared with other companis and countries like Quinetiq who handle all uk military and secret service systems and also Iran would they not utilise ALIHilli laser technology to take out iranian satelittes?
Ricky ticky Tarr wrote:
DUHH! “AlIHilli laser technology” [sic] to
“take out” “iranian satelittes?” [sic]
Iranian satellites are not that strong in either numbers or merit, and to proposing that a specific British person occuring in a current news story should have any role in it ,- is simply nuts.
“would they not utilise ALIHilli laser technology to take out iranian satelittes?”
Whoa tiger !
When did that (Mr Al Hilli’s laser technology) happen !!!!
There’s is “alot” on here that likes to make 2 + 2 equal 4,811.
We have a very odd masacre.
With strange responses from the French and British authorities.
No one is even sure were Mr Al Hilli worked.
SSTL say he was a “longterm contractor”.
Whereas Shtech Ltd (the last accounts) doesn’t really show a very busy IR35 contractor.
A we know even less about the other victims (inc Mr Mollier) at all.
Can someone check this out?
‘La demolition des maisons Mollier-Carroz ..’ I think it said. My browser has frozen and won’t open the link now, although it did a minute ago.
http://solidariteprogres73.elunet.fr/index.php/category/Logement-Transports
@Felix
23 Sep, 2012 – 2:33 pm
A very interesting find, on first glance it seems to be a local left leaning social environmental group.
I remember Sylvain Mollier was described as a Monsieur Tout-le-Monde (‘an Average Joe’) maybe by the prosecutor.
Is it unusual that it was the mayor who informed his wife about what had happened, or is that customary in France?
There’s a reference to the demolition of the Mollier-Carroz houses on the page about Transport and Housing.
Uh oh, all is not well with local democracy in Ugine
‘Communiqué
L’association « Solidarité et Progrès » réunie le 17 janvier 2008 avec les candidats pressentis à la constitution d’une liste de gauche aux élections municipales de mars 2008 à Ugine a confirmé son intention. Une liste rassemblant des militants de gauche, communistes, socialistes, écologistes, des personnes progressistes, issues du monde syndical ou associatif représentera la gauche uginoise dans ce scrutin. Elle sera conduite par Louis Bertrand, conseiller municipal, ancien maire de 1989 à 1995. Une charte fixant le socle commun des candidates et candidats a été adoptée. Elle précise leur volonté de faire barrage à la politique antisociale du gouvernement et de traduire les enjeux nationaux au niveau local. Elle définit les grandes options en matière de développement économique et social, d’écologie, de démarches citoyenne et démocratique. Elle se donne comme priorités le logement social, un urbanisme facteur de convivialité et de renouveau commercial, le maintien des services publics, un environnement de qualité. Des groupes de travail élaborent le programme et l’ordre de la liste qui seront communiqués dès leur validation.’
@ Felix, @ all
OMG, this case has everything a conspiracy theorist could wish for, and more …
The solidariteprogres73 site is the local Savoie (Postcode 73) site of the national Solidarité & Progrès site
http://www.solidariteetprogres.org/
… and guess who is behind that Solidarité & Progrès movement: The Lyndon LaRouche movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Cheminade
Parky said:
THIS WHOLE THREAD HAS GOT SERIOUSLY OUT OF CONTROL AND IS NOW HEADING FOR 5000 COMMENTS, IS THAT GOING TO BE A NEW RECORD FOR THIS SITE?
THERE SEEM TO BE SOME PEOPLE COMMENTING HERE WHO APPEAR TO HAVE FAR TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS, AND YOU KNOW WHO THAT MAKES WORK FOR. AND AS DAME EDNA USED TO SAY “SPOOKY” .
FOR WHAT ITS WORTH I DONT BELIEVE THE “EX RAF” GUY WAS PART OF THIS MURDER BUT AS ALWAYS LOOK WHO HAS MOST TO GAIN FROM THESE DEATHS AND WHO CARRIES OUT SUCH ASSASINATIONS WITHOUT FEAR OF THE ADVERSE PUBLICITY EVEN IF THE FINGER POINTS THEIR WAY. IT’S NOT ROCKET SCEINCE FOLKS.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hold on there Parky. Anders is still in the pub!! Check in later.
@Peter:
From the wiki entry: 1982-1985: Defense of SDI (Strategic Defence Initiative).
More on SDI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative
The speeding car. (Timeline LeMessager)
Already at 7pm, the Mayor of Chevaline, Didier Berthollet, reported that the police were asking people if they had seen a speeding car between 3 and 4pm.
Why go fast (if it indeed happened? Of course, to draw attention to yourself. False trail straight away. And false timeline probably.
The mayor complained to ledauphine . com the next morning that he had been bombarded by English journalists (er, not French ones too?) since 6am and he says anyway, he was “away hiking” to the east, near Faverges on the day in question. He says he has no contact with Maillaud, even less with the police. (yet seems to have been in contact with them the previous evening….)
Interview with the mayor here
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xthzp7_le-maire-de-cheveline-revient-sur-la-fusillade_news
I’m going to have a nice cup of cocoa now and try to forget all about this case.
By the way, @ Felix, Roger Mollier was Sylvain Mollier’s father, a leading light of the local Rugby club, who also died recently.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph … it’s still going?
As mentioned before somewhere, here’s another Mollier and the Mollier diagram:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Mollier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychrometrics#Mollier_diagram
Naturally enough, this is used at nuclear plants.
The name has been around for a while in the scientific world, but who knows whether it is the family of Sylvain Mollier?
Still waiting to hear from the MSM as to SM’s citizenship and passports. Did he hold multiple passports, and if so, from which countries? Even in remote communities, scientists and technicians in specialized industries are brought from all over the world to do their work.
@Peter:
Sorry, you can’t have cocoa so soon after opening another can of worms!
@Mochyn
There seems to be a Carroz – Mollier family with a metal business in town – Mollier is a common name though. (Head Arnaud C-M)
Le Dauphine Libere newspaper seems to have shut up shop on the case – or been shut up. Last post 13th September, a wild goose chase story
http://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2012/09/14/une-nouvelle-piste-troublante-evoquee-hier-par-la-presse-anglaise
“Le Dauphine Libere newspaper seems to have shut up shop on the case”
Like the French and British police then !
Didier Berthollet (Marie De chevaline).
“I returned yesterday from a hiking Seythenex”
A village on the evening of the masacre.
“The mayor toured the common elements” recalls Yves.
One word ! UNBELIEVABLE !
Yet MORE “smoke n mirrors” !
@Felix 23 Sep, 2012 – 5:38 pm
Yes, and was SM not originally identified as a metallurgist?
If that blog is genuine, we have SM and his late father supporting the local Solidarité et Progrès which was founded in January 2008 by gathering a list of potential candidates consisting of leftists, communists, socialists, environmentalists, progressive people from the trade union or association world to represent the Uginoise left.The leader was the former mayor, Louis Bertrand.
Communiqué
http://solidariteprogres73.elunet.fr/index.php/category/Accueil-Presentation
I think I need a cocoa too, or a Stella!
So… if I’m reading this thread correctly, Sylvain Mollier was a socialist (roughly the equivalent of a Labour supporter in the UK)?
Or perhaps, a Green-Labour supporter of a local party with 1030 Ugine residents behind it.
Or perhaps an activist in that party.
What, exactly is the big deal about that?
Can someone explain, please?
Maybe anti-nuclear, despite working at Cezus/Areva?
Or what, exactly?
Sorry if I’m being dim… just don’t see a big deal in someone being involved in mainstream local politics…