The Al-Hilli Conundrum 6629


My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.

Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.

In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.

My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?

Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:

From Janesmith101

All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police

Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.

Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.

What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?

As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.

http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html

The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.

Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.

An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.

I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.

I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.


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6,629 thoughts on “The Al-Hilli Conundrum

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  • Ferret

    @Peter

    More dissemulation:

    While it’s true that the serious-organised-crime and intelligence “style” of the shooting were initially mentioned in the press, I don’t believe any connection was ever insinuated or made between the victims themselves and intelligence or organised crime, as you are suggesting.

    After that, this angle was played down in the media, and intelligence specifically isn’t mentioned at all, nor organised crime, so far as I am aware.

    On the other hand, the “brother-did-it-for-the-inheritance” angle has been consistently played out since the early days (day 2?)

    So you have turned reality on its head by suggesting the opposite.

    And I’m not discrediting what you are saying just because it doesn’t fit in with what I think, as you are clearly suggesting, but because it is in clear opposition to reality.

    This is the nature of discussion boards: I don’t have to agree with you, and vice versa. Debate, discuss, examine, explore.

    But please don’t insult our intelligence by posting deliberate distortions, and then complain that you are being shouted down when people point it out for what it is!

    🙂

    OK?

    Interesting speculation about what they found in the car. Mind you, hasn’t this been done to death here already, re the roof bars/cycle racks?

  • anders7777

    Not the slightest bit worried about what Anders may claim about me, especially that Trowbridge H. Ford aka Trow Ford, TH Ford et al., is a fraud, and I am mostly like just another one by claiming to be them.

    =====
    I am 100 per cent certain you are the real deal. I can “tell” ! 🙂

  • anders7777

    Having unprecedented problem linking articles about ESA,its radar satellites, and the melting of the Arctic ice cap though I acutally saw one which said that the ESA’s cryosat-2 ones can also determine the thickness of bodies of water, and land, provided that it has ice, water, or air below it.

    =====
    Be a gamechanger if the new version can detect subs, eh? 😮

  • Ferret

    @Trowbridge

    Having unprecedented problem linking articles about ESA…
    If and when I get one linked, I shall post it.

    OK thanks, look forward to seeing something if/when you manage it.

    It’s also based upon all the research and writing I did on NSA and the NRO.

    OK, thanks. Any links to that? And presumably your research quotes its sources?

    Think that Gary Aked is telling the truth about al-Hilli’s hatred of Zionism

    Why?

    Believe that al-Hilli, in doing so publicly, was attempting to show Hassan Nasrallah how serious he was about spying for Islam.

    Quite possibly.

    But couldn’t it also be true that Gary Akers is simply putting out the government line to make Al Hilli look like someone who might spy for Iran, rather than the UK?

    And where exactly are these chat-rooms which Al-Hilli is supposed to have posted on? Bring out the evidence, I say. (Which could of course be planted.)

    And you know, for a guy who never went to mosque, he sure is being painted as a religious nut, isn’t he?

    Anyhow, I’m still unsure as to what makes you so certain about things like this (Gary Aked), or the satellite angle over the nuke angle… you do seem very sure of things which I would hav thought everyone would have to be uncertain about… unless they have direct links to insiders, of course!

    😀

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Oh, thanks Anders for posting about me.

    I alleged welched on a bet with one Jimmy, an Aussie, about an earthquake occurring in Iran.

    There was a very unfocused discussion about it, not only with Jimmy, but also other posters on TL. I did suggest a most foolish 100-to-one one with him where he just put up one 100 SEK. but he never accepted it, only suggesting a straight one for 1,000 SEK over a two-week period – what I never agreed to, especially since he had not agreed, fortunately, to what I suggested.

    The settlement of it took a couple of years – me actually giving 1,000 to a charity, AND 1,000 to Jimmy, but I am still known by him, and his supporters, especially jamtjim, not only a welcher but also a cheat.

    Sometimes, you just cannot satisfy someone about anything.

  • anders7777

    Think that Gary Aked is telling the truth about al-Hilli’s hatred of Zionism, and his articulation of it on chat-rooms – what the securocrats are now taking advantage of when explaining away his murder and those of the others at Israeli’s expense. Believe that al-Hilli, in doing so publicly, was attempting to show Hassan Nasrallah how serious he was about spying for Islam.

    =====
    Depending on how this is spun, the launching of an Iran attack could revolve around this case. 😮

    I would suggest therefore that certain folks have other folks ALSO by the BALLZ ™ ! 😮

    Probably a mutual death grip to see who’s eyes water first! 😮

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Here are links to most of the articles:

    http://cryptome.org/0001/usa-disasters16.htm

    The reason why I am quite certain about its validity is that Cryptome posted it – John Young telling me that CIA was again out to kill me – thinking that I was someone’s spy or leaker when we met in Riverside Park in NYC on June 9, 2009, as I recall.

    Young apparently thought that I would somehow confess to being someone’s messenger. He even posted my article about Angela Merkel being apparently former KGB spy ANITA at the time, thinking that it was the result of something from Putin.

    Young kept posting what I provided until I wrote an article about him, stating that he was really the deepest Agency agent -something he understandably took the greatest offense to.

    No one else can truthfully claim responsibility for what I do!

  • Ferret

    @Trow

    What I am trying to get my head around the idea that

    a) Saad Al Hilli publicly posted on chat rooms how much he hated Israel, USA etc (enough to convince Iran that he wanted to spy for them)

    And

    b) Gary Aked knew about this.

    So…

    a) Wouldn’t it be a bit of a cover-blower for SAH if his posts were discovered? Surely that would be a bit of a dis-incentive.

    b) Were the posts in English, or Farsi, or Arabic, or what?

    c) If they were in Farsi or Arabic, does Gary Aked speak (read) those languages? If so, how?

    d) If not, how could Gary know what SAH was saying?

    Gary Aked to me is extremely unreliable, and I’ll tell you why. (Hopefully you’ll reciprocate by telling me why you find him so compelling.)

    How could any friend of a contractor swear with their hand on their heart that their friend don’t do any defence contracts? They could say it was unlikely, because they know them. But they wouldn’t know for sure because normally they wouldn’t have access to their company records.

    So how could Gary Aked be so sure? That is a “tell” in my book. Not 100%, but pretty likely.

    A truth-teller would say “I seriously doubt it, I know him well – I’d be very surprised if…”. Etc. Not “I am 100% certain”.

    Also, he is high up a serious player in a technical area of the defence industry, therefore must be security cleared at a high level.

    Which also gives a good reason to believe he might be asked to spin a government story.

    So now… why do you believe him so much?

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    Townbridge, I believe it is unlikely that a satelite can “see” deep into the earth in this way. What dept are we talking about, I don’t think Iran’s underground facilities are any deeper than 100 meters.

    [Remember it could be part of a misinformation campaign to claim that this technology had been invented.

    Sure John Gater on Time Team would be pleased if he could use it just to look half a yard down – then he wouldn’t have to trot up and down those fields with his magnetic transmitter. 🙂

    But there are so many strange formations occuring naturally, so that you couldn’t say it wasn’t natural, and it could be covered with tinfoil to reflect the radar-beams, or Iran could place civilians down there and publicise it, so that noone would dare to do anything.

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    In following up on my latest post, it would surely be covered in lead to protect it from electromagnetic pulses, and radar is — as far as I understand — also such pulses, but much weaker.

  • Ricki Tarr

    @Ken – I did a lot of Research last week on SSTL and it is indeed true that the radar satellites (SAR) can see through Cloud, weather (this hasnt been done before), it can also measure sea and land depths as well as act as an early warning systems for natural disasters!

    http://www.sstl.co.uk/news-and-events?story=1936

    Sir Martin Sweeting of SSTL has just won the AIAA award.

    http://blog.sstl.co.uk/archives/426-Disaster-Monitoring-Constellation-wins-AIAA-award.html

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Forgot about the questions about Aked, al-Hilli, and the chat-room stuff.

    It must exist, and be possible to discover or it just shows that aL-Hilli was set-up from the start, most likely by MI6 and GCHQ, like Williams and Loftus.

    If the e-mails exist, they, of course, could have been created by the securocrats, but their dating would be most crucial in explaining whether they are real or contrived.

    Doubt we shall ever see anything really certain about it all, just Aked’s claim – what I am inclined to see as real, as I just cannot see a long-time friend, unless Aked is an agent, making this up.

    Think that, if Aked an informant, al-Hilli would have had serious problems with the authorities way before this massacre.

    May even help explain: why a massacre.

  • molliemallone

    I’m catching up again! Work keeps getting in the way – tut tut, this is much more fun!

    The pharmacy is not 4 hours away from Ugine, it’s in Grignon which is just under 13km from Ugine.

    The name of the pharmacy is Pharmacie Schutz Morange, but it is not in Morange. The address is 73 Rue Joseph Martin, Grignon

    Apologies if someone else has already resurrected this!

  • straw44berry

    Ferret,
    I believe Gary’s testimony is like that of the family’s neighbours: all made to tell a story about the family.
    In 10 minutes flat at least 4 neighbours were willing to be named when they believed Saad & family had been executed. They all had stories which they may want to tell but I dont believe any of them would risk themselves by revealing their names and that they knew something vital and would become the shooters next target.

    So this information is charade and not factual.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    100 meters is quite enough to know when talking about underground facilities to destroy.

    And, Anders, if I’m not mistaken, you are talking about the game between Turkey and Croatia – what I saw in Vienna. Never saw so many helpless drunks, the Croat fans,in the aftermath

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    @Trow
    @Anders
    Think that Gary Aked is telling the truth about al-Hilli’s hatred of Zionism, and his articulation of it on chat-rooms – what the securocrats are now taking advantage of when explaining away his murder and those of the others at Israeli’s expense. Believe that al-Hilli, in doing so publicly, was attempting to show Hassan Nasrallah how serious he was about spying for Islam.

    =====
    Depending on how this is spun, the launching of an Iran attack could revolve around this case. 😮

    *****************

    This is just bullshit linking this rather inferior case to anything that is supposed to happen to Iran. I think it is wrong to mention it as a possibility, because everyone agrees that it would be such a horror, and a lot of civilians living aorund the nuclear sites being killed. I think it is wrong to constantly throw up this possibility, at least when you’re not in the same sentence condemning Israel for everything it stands for.

    If some Israelis are lurking here, they should not have a chance to be pleased about what their country technically can do, but be constantly bemoaned and treated as outcasts for all honest and peace loving men and women – for what their country already has done to the indigeneous people of first and foremost Palestine, but also for example Iraq and Iran, where sanctions against the two reportedly killed 400.000 children in Iraq, but how many has lost their lives in Iran due to the sanctions? That we do not know.

  • molliemallone

    @Bluebird

    Btw, does anybody know the name of sylvain’s widow? Her first name would be great to know for searching. Her girlname (surname) would be perfect. Thanks for info if somebody knows it.

    Her name is Claire Schutz, she did have a facebook profile, but it was taken off several days ago. Prior to that, there were pics of the baby, she was ‘friends’ with a few Molliers, but no Sylvain Mollier.

  • Kempe

    “I believe it is unlikely that a satelite can “see” deep into the earth in this way. What dept are we talking about, I don’t think Iran’s underground facilities are any deeper than 100 meters.”

    It’s nonsense. Radio waves don’t pass easily through ground, in dry conditions the sort of equipment used by John Gater might penetrate 15m, in wet conditions a few cm, and this is a 1 kw transmitter in direct contact with the ground surface. A satellite in even a low orbit would need a phenomenal amount of power and still wouldn’t see very much.

  • Blue_Bear

    Kempe,

    Would it be able to tell the difference between typical earth/ground/rock and a massive lump of lead buried beneath the ground?

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    Trow wrote:

    Forgot about the questions about Aked, al-Hilli, and the chat-room stuff.

    Yes, but who dare to look into those chat-rooms. I for one do not, then it could be said one visits these places.

  • anders7777

    Hi Trowbridge

    And, Anders, if I’m not mistaken, you are talking about the game between Turkey and Croatia – what I saw in Vienna. Never saw so many helpless drunks, the Croat fans,in the aftermath

    =====
    It was a while ago, think it may have been 0-0 or 1-1 and OZ v NZ, last kick Australia scored a goal! Something like that, NZ were the big underdogs, but packed the defence aiming for a draw and maybe a lucky goal on the counter-attack. Ref the Croats, LOL! 🙂

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    But Straw44berry, Gary Aked DID reveal his name.

    He reminds me of a person who knows something very secret about someone else, and volunteers it when the source suddenly becomes the topic of something seemingly unrelated, only to deny everything, even the most likely, when it comes really into focus.

    Reminds me of some of my relatives and friends who make fun of my conspiracy claims, but if something ever happens to me of a suspicious nature, I doubt that they would follow up their off-the-cuff remarks about me with serious examples of what I am really about.

  • anders7777

    “I believe it is unlikely that a satelite can “see” deep into the earth in this way. What dept are we talking about, I don’t think Iran’s underground facilities are any deeper than 100 meters.”

    It’s nonsense. Radio waves don’t pass easily through ground, in dry conditions the sort of equipment used by John Gater might penetrate 15m, in wet conditions a few cm, and this is a 1 kw transmitter in direct contact with the ground surface. A satellite in even a low orbit would need a phenomenal amount of power and still wouldn’t see very much.

    =====
    Far as I know the Americans pioneered all this top secret imaging for the last 100 years, that is why “we” are in Afghanistan. What they can see is super top secret, and my bet is the science is at least 50 years ahead of any commercial sats. And with Klinton betraying everything to the Chinese, you can bet Russia and China are way ahead to0, maybe further.

    DOGG

    OIL – no not oil, but Lithium, sats have spotted a massive vein of Lithium, used for cell phones and poss the new generation of car batteries…

    DOPE – the poppy fields are now open for biz again…

    The Falklands

    OIL – that’s why we’re down there, also minerals

    Iraq

    OIL – oil and massive minerals throughout the region, including Iran…

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Thanks,Kenneth Sorensen, for expressing your opposition to going anywhere in the hope of finding evidence, and for getting my name right.

    I,a really old fart, have no hesitation in going to talk to the Iranians, for example, about ‘Jihad Jane’s aka Colleen LaRose’s attempts to recruit me as her lover/assassin of anti-Muslims, especially Sweden’s cartoonist Lars Vilks.

    Just tell me where I might find Saad al-Hilli chatting away, and I shall attempt to make a visit.

  • anders7777

    This is just bullshit linking this rather inferior case to anything that is supposed to happen to Iran. I think it is wrong to mention it as a possibility, because everyone agrees that it would be such a horror, and a lot of civilians living aorund the nuclear sites being killed. I think it is wrong to constantly throw up this possibility, at least when you’re not in the same sentence condemning Israel for everything it stands for.

    =====
    I think I’ve made it clear that I don’t support any attack on Iran, or any of the wars we keep getting dragged into. The USA warmongering record is quite appalling. I’m not a fan of Israel, the Palestinians have been treated appallingly. However I do stand my my contention that this case has been smothered, IMHO because if the truth came out it could have real blowback potential, as outlined above.

  • anders7777

    Just tell me where I might find Saad al-Hilli chatting away, and I shall attempt to make a visit.

    =====
    Langley?

  • Ferret

    @Kenneth

    Could you please answer my question from last night as to how you propose to implement your mid-east peace plan?

  • straw44berry

    Gary Aked is a very close family friend who I believe (if it’s the right one) lives in Cranleigh, Surrey GU6 about 20 miles from Claygate and he has lived there for 10 years from 2002. He is unlisted from 2004-2009.
    He was probably 1 of the 6 people at Saad/Iqbal’s wedding.

  • bluebird

    thank you @molliemalone.

    it also seems that everything regarding Sylvain Mollier has disapperared from the web as well as almost everything regarding Claire Schutz has disappeared. Obviously there were too many curious journalists and even more courious conspiracy searchers becoming a nuisance for the family.

    @ferret
    You’re right regarding Claire Schutz. However, that archery club is the most successful one in France and the talents are quite often in the better clubs. Also that Mandelieu club is (amongst approx. 30 other french archery clubs) the 4th nearest to Ugine.
    http://www.evenements-sportifs.com/ffta-fr/doc/Clubsformateurs2011XV.pdf
    This is a pretty weird coincidence and I stay corrected.

    @kathie:
    Saddam would never have had a shia wife. That’s the same strange idea as if Elton John would marry Maggy Thatcher.

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