My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
“A few seconds later, it goes down a few meters to call the fire department.
Recorded by the first call for help, which arrived a few minutes later”
From news report (P.D.)
Sounds like he didn’t have to go far to use his phone ?
If I look at coverage in my village it also seems to be in a dead zone and whilst coverage is certainly not ideal it is definitely better than indicated on opensignalmaps.com
Agreed. I’ve just checked where I live and it’s showing dead spots which don’t appear on o2’s coverage map. opensignals maps may be well out of date.
@Bluebird
No, Skorpion is NOT the confirmed weapon.
Daily Mail:
How come this Phillipe can speak to press but not the RAF bloke?
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What I mean really is to what extent is the RAF bloke being treated differently to Phillipe who is the first person comparable in terms of witness status.
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Is there anything in the treatment of the two that merits further attention?
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Why did the French prosecutor not mention this Phillipe at an earlier stage? He mentioned the RAF bloke.
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Will the RAF bloke be interviewed by British press? Are they looking for him? The Brit press are renowned for tracking down witnesses.
With Philippe D. the whole story around RAFman changes.
We thought RAFman was the one who called emergency.
Now it’s Philippe D.
RAFman appears now to be more “passive” : he was caught on the scene, he is no more “active” : he was not the one who calls emergency.
Maybe he heard the car coming and run towards it.
RAFman was on the scene alone and didn’t call any emergency/police until a car approached (that’s a fact).
Maybe he was removing stuff, cleaning, finishing some job.
Somewhere I read that Philippe D. saw RAFman with blood on his hands.
He said he moved the 7 yo girl.
Maybe he’s just an innocent helper.
But why is RAFman not named ? (not like Philippe D?)
Why Philippe D. appears just now ?
Something is unaccurate with the timing. We can read Phillipe D. arrived at the scene at 4:10 although the emergency call was at 3:48.
Jon, it’s good to be back; how could I resist moderating at the “Third most influential political blog”? Thanks for all your extra effort while I was, at first, cracking up, and later, while I was away.
Coverage map for French mobile operator sfr showing good coverage around Lake Annecy and Chevaline with dead spots only in mountainous areas
http://assistance.sfr.fr/mobile_forfait/mobile/couverture-reseau/en-48-62267
@HA and Bluebird – really, the Standard is just pathetic with its translation.
Philippe first saw exRAF almost at the scene, not down near Chevaline, at little before 4pm not at 4:10.
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Having driven hundreds of kms on mountain tracks in the French Alps (but not in this area) I have found the network is in good condition and easily traversable perhaps even in a regular car if it has some ground clearance as many French cars do and with a little experience. You would be surprised how far one can get driving a regular car off-tarmac.
So we should not discount the perp escaping further up into the hills by car or 4×4. As you can see the network heads all directions.
“they rode quietly in the forest road car of the Combe d’Ire on the heights of the village of Horses, close to the place called the Martinet, they saw arise shortly before 4:01 p.m. crazed cyclist, first witness of the massacre”
4.01pm.
But all earlier reports are say it was the exRAF Chap and earlier.
It must have come from somewhere.
David Landy:
“Probably” is a pretty good word for “most likely”.
However, police confirmed that this was a 7.65 mm, and there aren’t that many around with 7.65 mm.
While a weapon is freely available in the USA, it doesn’t mean that it is freely available in Europe as well. And, you surely know, it’s pretty stupid if you’d purchase a weapon in the USA and then fly over with your automatic weapon in your bag from NY to e.g. Paris. Semiautomatic and automatic guns in private hands are usually illegal almost everywhere in Europe. That’s why I said that this is a military weapon and it’s interesting to know that it is used in the Iraqi military as well as in the former Yugislavian military. There isn’t any doubt that weapons were distributed illegally from military into private hands, but there’s no way to openly purchase such weapons in the market throughout Western Europe.
http://www.rtl.fr/actualites/article/tuerie-de-chevaline-sur-rtl-le-procureur-evoque-des-elements-tres-interessants-7752309362
The Frenchman also says…
I did not realize if he had no phone or if he failed to capture the network at this point.
I cycle..and always take my phone.
Why does the Frenchman say “I did not realise if he had a phone” ?
You’ve just seen a car full of dead people….and two dead people on the floor.
You grab your bike…and start running with it, but not with your phone ?
But then again, you’d probably be keeping an eye those woods !
OR zipping down that road at full whack.
This Phillipe D and RAF man thing is highly significant. We need to look carefully at how they’ve been presented to us and any inconsistencies that crop up.
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The prosecutor needs to be asked about this Phillipe D and how come he wasn’t mentioned at an earlier stage.
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I mean, first witnesses on the scene is what everyone should be concentrating on. If not, why not.
RIP – WTC victims
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98
One of the questions now is: Are the neswreaders,hosts and reporters who are reporting and reading the news for the pantomine mainstream media complicit in the fraud and lies themselves, and will they also be liable to to face a criminal trial as well? Maybe a lot of them are ‘useless idiots’ whos egos are pandered to by their employers and who do no realise the mass lying that they are involved in, but a great deal must be very aware of what they are involved in…
News readers are coming out against the mainstream lies they are required to sell in the USA but as of yet not one in Britain – that i know of at least. Do these idiots realise that millions of people are thinking and saying “You are lying to us” while watching these idiot news readers peddling their grubby little lies every day? Who will be the first one to come out and divulge the truth and what kind of justice should the ones that don’t face?
Clark – no worries, I think I’ve left you to it too many times anyway. So my turn, I think.
Pleased your break in the Rabbit Hole has done you good 😀
@Chris Jones – “Are the neswreaders, hosts and reporters who are reporting and reading the news … complicit in the fraud and lies themselves”
Almost certainly no – such a system would be far too leaky. Apologies for mentioning it again – to anyone who is sick of me recommending it – but Herman & Chomsky’s Propaganda Model is well worth looking at here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2012/09/09/01016-20120909ARTFIG00130-les-connexions-moyen-orientales-des-al-hilli-au-crible.php
Their father Khadim wasn’t killed, he died because he was ill and old. Somebody posted a mis-information.
The so called “million” properties aren’t very expensive ones. Their Spanish property is worth Euro 50.000,– only.
You won’t kill somebody for 50.000 euros. Even paying for the professional killer would most likely cost you much more.
In my opinion, the media made story about the two brothers “Kain kills Abel” is simply just a “dead horse” to remove or rather to block our interest from the real facts and from the real backgrounds. It’s simply some deliberate mis-information.
It’s said by a neighbour that she saw Saad wearing a bullet-proof vest in his home shortly before he left for France. She said that he was obviously scared of something and he said that someday somebody would perhaps come and shoot through his door right into his forehead.
“As they approached Chevaline at around 4.10pm, a ‘terrified cyclist’ – the RAF officer – came hurtling towards them.
The hiker said : “This man was in a panic and coming down the road.”
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/first-witness-describes-horror-scene-of-alps-massacre-8125063.html
Where has the nerves-of-steel ex-RAF guy disappeared to?
As I said earlier, it’s not just minor details that are changing, all the time, but walloping great big facts!
Re: Dave Brooker’s link – RTL report that Eric Maillaud has told them he has uncovered “very interesting elements”, which he cannot elaborate on, when studying CCTV from local businesses and photos from Gatso-type speed cameras.
They have also been studying the remains of any burnt-out vehicles in the region.
@KB
You are right on the money.
🙂
@Bluebird
First you post inaccurate, unattributed claims, then you dissemulate when caught out.
The word “probably” does not equate to “most likely”. Perhaps “likely” would be an accurate alternative. But neither equates to the word “confirmed” which is what you originally stated.
So… you were wrong. Plain and simple.
Re getting a weapon to the killing field, are you seriously suggesting secret services do not have reliable methods of transporting weapons around the world undetected? Surely not.
You omitted that apart from the Balkans and Iraq, the Skorpion is also used by the Afghan military, and in other countries too. Both the USA and the UK have a military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan… so CIA or MI5/MI6 could spirit one away on a military flight and either use it themselves or give it to an ally (eg MOSSAD, in the CIA’s case) or another assassin.
BUT
Like I say, this is a total red herring. And the weapon hasn’t even been confirmed yet. It could be any number of 7.65mm weapons at this stage.
Back to the ex-RAF-man being caught red-handed (literally).
Which I find MUCH more interesting…
I recommend everyone to google translate the French article (thanks to HA for the link).
According to the article, Phillipe D only had to descend a few metres from the murder scene to get mobile signal. So why couldn’t ex-RAF-man have called? He lived very nearby so presumably would have known exactly where you could and could not get signal.
Anyone know where I read that French police were withholding 85% of their information? It might have been on the earlier thread. Or it might not have been on this blog at all.
It’s coming to seem like it was Picadilly Circus/Grand Central up that dead-end track that day. Multiple cyclists, bikers, bricklayers, car drivers, assassins and people who, like the Tetragrammaton, it seems cannot be named. I wouldn’t be surpised to hear that the Scarlet Pimpernel was cycling around somewhere in the location. Curiouser and curiouser…
Philippe D also said, “gunman could have escaped down ‘a winding track called Le Moulin’ which leads directly to the main road.”
Can we pinpoint this on a map?
Ok, this new witness surely makes “ex RAF” guy a prime suspect. But instead he is granted anonymity and is apparently totally above suspicion.
It looks a damn hard place to escape from (looking at the OS map)….
You’d need a motorbike (but they are noisy).
You’d need a mountain bike !
“But instead he is granted anonymity and is apparently totally above suspicion.”
Maybe he plays chess with the head of the local gendarmerie
Montyw,
Your location is just about 100 metres through the trees from the lay-by on the side road originally shown in overhead google maps pics as the location (including by the BBC).
MontyW, or anybody else, do you know what those pretty empty fields are at
45°43’43.99″N 6°13’33.60″E
plus the other, bigger one at
45°43’51.60″N 6°13’32.83″E
What purpose do those flat sandy fields in the middle of nowhere have? Helicopter landing places? Building sites? Bunkers? Could anybody tell us who was there what it is about with those closeby flat sandy fields in the middle of that forest only a few hundred meters apart from the scene?
I also thought the ‘ex-RAF cyclist’ had “nerves of steel”, yet now he is “crazed”. Perhaps he was “crazed” when he econutered Phillipe D but had composed himself by the time he met the cops. Who knows. They could tell us anything they want. They could etll us that Mahmoud Ahmedinejad was waiting in those woods with his portable mattress and his flask of pomegranate juice. They could tell us that Ariel Sharon had risen up from his non-medically-induced coma and ridden a jeep to ‘The Mill’. They could tell us that Iran could launch a strike against the Isle of Skye in 44.7 minutes. Whatever emerges, finally, it seems unlikely that it will approximate the truth.
Think of deaths of Catherine Hurd and Gareth Williams. Perhaps, soon, we will ‘discover’ that Mr Al-Hilli was depressed and into bondage.