My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@Kenneth
Could you please answer my question from last night as to how you propose to implement your mid-east peace plan?
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Antonia Miranda Bliar would also like to know, since he’s done bugger all in the last 5 years as the mid east “peace” mucketymuck! 😮
@Bluebird
Thanks for that.
There’s a link to Claire Schutz still up here:
http://copainsdavant.linternaute.com/membre/12842817/1045513060/claire_schutz/
@Anders
Tonio Blairio has done very well thankyou out of Middle East Peace. he’s making millions out of it.
The thing about Gary Aked is that we just don’t know who he is really, or what his real relationship is with SAH.
Supposing he worked for intel he might have been instructed to befriend SAH when he came over from Iraq, so that he could keep close tabs on him.
Gary Aked’s LinkedIn profile describes him as “Senior Engineer at ATK”.
ATK’s website describes very clearly what they do – armaments and arms systems.
For example the home page says:
In the News
Sept 13, 2012
ATK Delivers 2 Billion 7.62mm Rounds to the U.S. Army from the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP)
Sept 12, 2012
ATK Awarded Manufacturing Development Contract for XM25, Individual Semi-Automatic Airburst System
And their product page is quite an eye-opener!
http://www.atk.com/Products/default.asp
Funny, isn’t it, how Gary Aked has been described in the media as a “close friend”, but never as a senior engineer in an armaments company…
I think Aked is telling the truth, he didn’t have to understand or even listen, Saad himself told him how he felt,they had conversations about Islam & religion…..
They knew each other for 20 years,holidayed together had similar interests,it would be a strange friendship if they had not discussed Iraq & politics.
I think a lot of the chat would have been on Skype, verbal & IM.
The Al Hilli’s left in a hurry leaving everything behind, I’d say that would make anyone bitter, Saad seems to have hung his blame on the Americans & Zionists.
The reason Aked is telling this because he’s a friend who wants his friends killer found. Simple.
Tonio Blairio has done very well thankyou out of Middle East Peace. he’s making millions out of it.
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I know
Nice little earner
Massive expenses
Gets to meet all the minted sheikhs of Araby
Just got a million for 3 hours work brokering a stalled merge deal at a top London hotel
All blood money of course
And god help us his son is another troughing chancer too 🙁
Re http://www.atk.com/Products/default.asp
Anyone with any armaments knowledge like to speculate either about any of the following?
a) The capability of any ATK products to bring down a satellite?
b) The likelihood of any ATK products or components being the right shape and size to fit in the removed cycle rack tube?
c) The likelihood of any ATK products being desired by Iran for nuclear, space or anti-satellite technolgies, and the potential to sabotage them before shipment?
(And if you think I’m ferreting up the wrong tree feel free to say…)
The reason Aked is telling this because he’s a friend who wants his friends killer found. Simple.
And yet, SAH’s family members said “look at who he works for, then you’ll find out who killed him”.
And Gary Aked works for armaments, same kind of work as SAH…
So…
Bluebird.
Maybe not, but did the widow convert when she changed her ID ?
Even so as AH didn’t do the Friday mosque ritual,shows he was not a staunch follower , again, could something like this be the basis for the brothers quarrel ?
Even the Al Hilli’s ancestors switched from Sunni to Shia.
[ That’s if my research was correct on the Al Hilli’s ]
@ Ferret
While it’s true that the serious-organised-crime and intelligence “style” of the shooting were initially mentioned in the press, I don’t believe any connection was ever insinuated or made between the victims themselves and intelligence or organised crime, as you are suggesting.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/271949
Quote: “But a police source revealed at least one of the victims had links to international espionage or the criminal underworld.”
A less strongly phrased version of the same here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202149/France-shooting-No-motives-suspects-investigation-TEN-YEARS.html
Briefings by detectives suggested that at least one of the victims could have had links to those working in international espionage or the criminal underworld
‘Worked for’ ?
As far as I’m aware Aked was not the employer.
@Peter
“I do prefer to use my own brain rather rather than blindly rely upon the red-top media.” – Peter
Allow to me to air a WILD-ASS GUESS ™ here. One item that would have led police to the aforementioned conclusion and that would also explain why the police seem to have been quite sure from early on that the victims were tailed to France by their killer(s) would be a GPS tracking device found on the BMW, which the killer(s) omitted to remove before they fled. Tailing somebody who is in fear of his life, as SAH allegedly was, over hundreds of kilometres without being noticed is not an easy task. With a GPS tracking device, however, it would have been a doddle.
In my view, such a find would explain quite a lot (including the photo of the gendarme closely inspecting the underside of the BMW’s front bumper in one of the aerial scene-of-crime photos). It would perhaps also explain why UK intelligence were allegedly called to the scene of the crime, because the French authorities would have been wondering whether or not that tracking device had been fitted by agents of HM’s Government. However, as I have said, that is merely a wild guess.
@Ferret
24 Sep, 2012 – 2:43 pm
Touche!
I wonder if police investigations might present anything new in the near future or else if they simply have to wait and let time do its duty until there is no more interest in the public media regarding that case and then they might simply close their folders and let those folders rest in piece. Nobody might care about that in a few months from now and they might be right so. Press is getting quiet as time goes on and even the critical people like us might get tired as well or we might even put our focus on a totally different topic in a few weeks or in a few months from now.
Peter , all possible, what of a phone tap too ?
Apparently AH never went anywhere without his Computer too. It’s easy to chack the location of an ISP if they are not trying to hide it.
Edit: ‘Check.’
BTW. I don’t think the extraction theory holds up, realistically after all the exposure AH has received he would need some pretty hefty facial surgery to become anonymous.
@ Katie
I was thinking of material available to non-state actors. GPS tracking devices are available on every high street (but still also used by government agencies).
Tapping a phone is not the same thing as locating it. There are techniques for locating mobile phones quite accurately almost in real-time (so called “stealth SMS” or “silent ping”), but they require the cooperation of the network operators and hence are not available to non-state actors.
Just to finish that line of speculation. A GPS tracking device, finally, would have clearly indicated to investigators that the AHs were followed all the way from Britan (rather than, say, from the French coast) if they had found a UK pre-paid SIM card in it.
Re The Schutz family, it’s all been done ages ago on this thread.
More interesting, where is the first wife of SM?
Strawberry, I think, couldn’t find any Sylvain Mollier births – yet the “hunter” clearly falls into this birth time window. Suggest the database isn’t complete.
How do we know the hunter is anygry (Katie, Peter, anyone in Vauxhall?) I never believed he was the one.
psy op.
Ah, interesting, extraction being rubbished by Katie. Clearly there is some mileage in this line of investigation…
Recognition – ah, that would ruin any chance of slotting back into Claygate.
Perhaps a few photos or hard facts might persuade me to dump this theory?
“Far as I know the Americans pioneered all this top secret imaging for the last 100 years”
They can’t change the laws of physics no matter how clever you think they are. To power a satellite based GPR they’d need to put Sizewell B in orbit too.
Asked before but got no answer… what are French coroner/inquest rules?
The relevant authorities must know the movements of the al-Hillis – when and how the ferry was booked; currency conversion/witdrawal £ to € (if that was done); times of departure UK and arrival France; campsite bookings; purchase(s) of fuel and all other credit/debit card transactions made by either of the three adults… etc etc.
Arguably none of this background detail will solve the murders but it is the sort of routine investigative work that might turn up inconsistencies and in itself would demonstrate that the police forces are actively working the case, interviewing witnesses and so on.
To speculate – Possibly there is no active ongoing investigative work being done – otherwise there would have been public appeals for witnesses to come forward… such as anyone who might have seen SAH on one of his frequent errands from the campsites.
To speculate – It now seems, to all intents and purposes, that the murders did not happen either because (a) it was an ‘extraction’ set-up as previously theorised here or (b) the perpetrators were a state agency or agencies. (b) is not classified as ‘murder’ unless of course the state responsible is determined ‘unfriendly’.
One of the critical issues remains – aside from the many inconsistencies in his reported actions and in his later ‘interview’ – how was WBM declared an innocent bystander so quickly? Who vouched for him? What forensic tests was he subjected to, where were they processed, how long did they take to process?
I think the identification of SM was probably carried out by the deputy mayor of Ugine,Michel Chevallier, who was not shy of the media at first, doing a “Claygate” sanitisation op. (go back to page 1 of this thread or earlier today….) See also Express quote
Ugine Deputy Mayor Michel Chevallier said: “Had he passed five minutes before it may have been quiet; five minutes later and he would have been the first witness to the massacre, but he would be with us to talk about it.”
Wheeled out for the accidental passer-by story.
I know it’s been asked before, but why are there no pics of any bikes at the scene?
There could potentially be three. BM’s, SM’s and possibly one belonging to SAH.
@CD24 Sep, 2012 – 3:50 pm Murder is murder.
@ Mochyn69 24 Sep, 2012 – 4:11 pm Murder is murder
Agreed, 100%. But officially, when needs must, the definition (and the rule of law) will be bent.
Peter.
I was thinking of all those disappearances from the campsite, almost certainly AH must have been making private/confidential calls….. perhaps arranging that location with SM ?
The killers could/would have been in situ awaiting them rather than following.
If someone listened in on any phone he would know where they were.
Felix.
The photos we’ve seen [ globally ] of AH young & recent, would surely mean he could be recognised anywhere ?
@CD 24 Sep, 2012 – 3:50 pm
I’m plunging the depths of my memory here, but I don’t think there is an equivalent of a separate inquest conducted by a coroner in France. The ‘enquête’ is carried out by the police under the direction of the ‘juges d’instruction’ with the State prosecutor.
Something like that. Very differnet to the English legal system.
PS This may help: http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/coroner Le coroner est une appellation sans équivalent en France.