My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@ Mochyn69 24 Sep, 2012 – 4:11 pm
…why are there no pics of any bikes at the scene?
Important to know when exactly all extant public pics of the scene were taken. Conceivably evidence was moved or removed before the helicopters and photographers arrived…. of course that ought to have been after a complete forensics photographic record was made and the positions of all casings and other evidence were properly noted and logged.
@FELIX
Ah, interesting, extraction being rubbished by Katie. Clearly there is some mileage in this line of investigation…
Recognition – ah, that would ruin any chance of slotting back into Claygate.
Perhaps a few photos or hard facts might persuade me to dump this theory?
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How about a few photos or hard facts yourself about the extraction theory instead of rubbishing anyone who doesnt go along with your not even half baked theories.
As far as I’m aware this extraction theory stems from no more than wishful thinking and overactive imaginations.
So, over to you. Hard facts and photos to back up your theories on this or your distracting far more than those you accuse of doing just that,
Did you read the whole thread Sofa?
over to the security services on bother sides of the channel, then, Sofa. They, unusually, seem to hold all the cards here.
SSTL – no comment
Schutz family – no comment
Cezus/Areva – no comment
Brett Martin – one and only one comment.
Hospitals – no comment
Sweden – no comment
UK/French govt – no comment
UK/French press – no comment
Relatives of Hilli in the UK – no comment
Perhaps there is nothing to comment on?
Brett has an amazing story to tell. Why only tell it once?
Yes Blue Bear I did. I don’t write off any extraction theory. Its a possibility to be explored I agree. I do not however see any hard facts, nothing at all remotely concrete in this respect. Therefore I see no reason to pooh pooh anybody who isnt in favour of this theory either.
I don’t know if anyone went to that link I provided re: SSTL presentation to USAF in 2006. Buried in there was mention of satellites being used to find earth changes indicating volcanic activity and earthquakes. The impression I got was that these events could be forecast in advance in some cases. Technology in this field is far ahead of what has been revealed to the public, IMO. That document was from 2006. Surely some surface changes or equipment being gathered in a remote location could be seen by spy satellites.
Re: mobile phones. It isn’t that hard for authorities to obtain mobile phone providers’ records. In some countries these companies hand it over rather easily, despite what you may believe about privacy and warrants, etc. Blackberry is a sticky point, though, which is why it was the phone of choice for those stirring up riots and looting in the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/01/riot-rumours-social-media-police
I do believe the kinds of phones found in the al-Hilli vehicle to be important to this story. Blackberry is the phone of choice for military officials in some countries, presumably because it is more secure.
Felix.
There are a number of possibilities:
Confidentiality = D notice ?
Fear factor ?
Conspiracy ?
No further findings ?
Someone will break ranks , it’s inevitable, there’s money to be made in even the tiniest snippet.
@Suhayl
@Ferret 08:24am Yes, I agree. Thank you, Suhayl.
@Ferret 09:58am Thanks! I think observation is a very useful skill to have. And sometimes the little grey cells line up and spit out an answer!
An observation – extraction and rendition are virtually the same, except that the latter is always and absolutely involuntary.
@Q
Blackberries are approved to be used and used by police, govt and MOD because they are so secure. Data is usually wiped from them daily and if one is lost can be wiped and shut down remotely. I havent looked for a while but it used to be that iphones and the likes werent approved because they werent in any way as secure.
The Saudi govt did briefly ban Blackberries there, because BB’s were actually too secure. RIM caved in.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/09/rim_saudi_arabia/
CD.
I was thinking that extraction meant, lifted & wafted away to a new life elsewhere…. but to live freely.
FWIW as background, here is what is public about the Sept. 13, 2012 spy satellite launch by the US. Source is NASA:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/09/uatlas-v-launch-nrol-36-vandenberg/
Electronic tags on shipping containers can be tracked.
@ Katie 24 Sep, 2012 – 5:57 pm
Indeed, but the physical process is pretty much the same – getting people from a place of danger to a place of safety.
I made the observation because it is an example of the ‘mirroring’ in the speculative theories that are suggested as possible explanations for the reported atrocity. For instance, the al-Hilli family may have thought they were in a place of safety but it turned out to be a place of danger.
So, was it intended to be a place of safety or a place of danger? Did it start as the former and become the latter, perhaps because of compromised communications or because of a leak?
Good, thanks CD. I’m pleased we clarified that.
Yes I am pretty sure AH was lured into thinking he was safe & then double crossed.
“….a lot of diplomacy involved….”[Martin Brunt]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXvwWFwjug
@Katie 24 Sep, 2012 – 6:18 pm
I think it less likely that he was double crossed than there was leak to third parties who erroneously(?) thought he (with Sylvain Mollier) was a risk/threat.
If extraction/rendition did not take place then there was a far greater level of (possibly imagined) risk/threat than had been anticipated.
Using the ‘mirroring’ form of analysis to determine the decisions taken – one would have to measure risk/threat to the al-Hillis, on the one hand, and risk/threat caused by the al-Hillis on the other.
@bluebird
I wonder if police investigations might present anything new in the near future or else if they simply have to wait and let time do its duty until there is no more interest in the public media regarding that case and then they might simply close their folders and let those folders rest in piece. Nobody might care about that in a few months from now and they might be right so. Press is getting quiet as time goes on and even the critical people like us might get tired as well or we might even put our focus on a totally different topic in a few weeks or in a few months from now.
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Precisely what will happen. However in future I will refer back to this case, I’m sure none of us will forget it. Can you imagine if it were three royals massacred? It would be WW3.
No need to be rude, Cut & Paste is what you do. You’d be shouting HARD DATA if others did it. 😉
“Far as I know the Americans pioneered all this top secret imaging for the last 100 years”
They can’t change the laws of physics no matter how clever you think they are. To power a satellite based GPR they’d need to put Sizewell B in orbit too.
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Kempe you have absolutely NO IDEA what they have up their sleeve so why not stop the tiresome ankle biting. They stole all Tesla’s stuff for a start and have been working on that for the best part of a century, and much more besides.
Did you answer blue bear’s question?
Gary Aked and SAH first met while they worked together at some company making containers – I cannot be bothered to look up the name, but it was something like “Total Logistics Solutions”.
The “ATK” that Gary Aked currently works for is W. S. Atkins plc
On yer bikes, check it out 🙂
An observation – extraction and rendition are virtually the same, except that the latter is always and absolutely involuntary.
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That’s what I said last night. SAH may be being forcibly debriefed right now,his children, effectively hostages. This is done all the time, nothing new except for the charade.
Peter, yes that’s where AH went up & introduced himself to Gary Aked saying something like, ‘ we have a friend in common’…… meaning a girlfriend apparently.
Anders
No nerve touched. Only someone touched in the head however would assume so.
@ Katie
Yes, that’s the one.
Dont embarrass the poor girl,im sure everyone has said summit they shouldnt on here (especially you)! come on give her a big kiss and apologise!
Imlike the bloody U.N on here……..!
Sez me yes. Instead of oh so predictably rounding on all those not in your little gang why not concentrate your talents on posting something actually pertaining to this case? I’m sure you do have some positive qualities. Perhaps we may even see just one of them on here one day.
Hello Ricki. Odd isn’t it how some allowed free speech & others are not. 😉
Anders, You are more than welcome to do some more C&P of my comments, it seems to be your raison d’etre.. I’ve been blogging long enough to know the types which dominate threads such as these.
Where is your blog BTW ?
I tried Katie!!, anyway didnt something happen in the alps? there has been a lot of talk about racists on this thread and no one really knows what peoples agenda’s are or what they are really like we could have Himmler on here and no one would know! with all that talk no one has once suggested this could be a killing to do with race?
Blackberries are approved to be used and used by police, govt and MOD because they are so secure. Data is usually wiped from them daily and if one is lost can be wiped and shut down remotely. I havent looked for a while but it used to be that iphones and the likes werent approved because they werent in any way as secure.
The Saudi govt did briefly ban Blackberries there, because BB’s were actually too secure. RIM caved in.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/09/rim_saudi_arabia/
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NSS.
And the world is round.
Sez me yes. Instead of oh so predictably rounding on all those not in your little gang why not concentrate your talents on posting something actually pertaining to this case? I’m sure you do have some positive qualities. Perhaps we may even see just one of them on here one day.
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Try the search function. Type in the little box, and hit enter. All sorts of things to put you right! 🙂