My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Sorry, that should have been:
@M69
I think the plan was already in existence. 9/11 was the pretext ..
That’d make sense…
BTW I haven’t forgotten about the bow-hunting group/paramilitary thing. Will get back to that tonight, hopefully.
I’m expecting some attacks on my character today after what I posted last night. Already got one this morning…
They can’t demolish through logical argument, so character destruction is all they have left. That and forum slide, topic dilution, the usual suspects!
😀
@Felix
We have no bodies, no bikes.
We have a car with broken windows, and (perhaps not at the same time) some glass, some cartriges,and some blood.
Doesn’t add up to much, Sherlock.
Exactly.
And who knows what (or who) was returned to the relatives, if extraction/rendition occurred.
Remember JFK/Tippett… security services always seem to have a way of coming up with bodies when they need them. Jackie swore it wasn’t him in the coffin.
Morning Felix, yes Mailaud did visit the site, there are photos & videos showing him there.
Which date though,I can’t be sure.
Mochyn /Ferret.
Come on, plan already in existence, you are overlooking the human side which I keep trying to bring you back to. The children !
Saad Al-Hilli loved those girls & his wife, everyone says that from school teachers through to neighbours,even the local council held a minutes silence for that family, as someone else said he would never have risked harming them. So whatever plan you mean could not have been agreed to by him.
Sooooo…….. was he an innocent pawn in someone else’s game ?
@Katie
I was more interested in the outfits the relatives wore at the hospital
… that, and Gary Aked.
And ATK, his employer.
And their spy satellites that can inform commanders on the ground of enemy troop movements within 10 seconds.
And their satellites that can take out (or perhaps steal) other satellites.
Morning folks.
Seems that you have made some progress during my absence, but perhaps I am not seeing the whole picture.
Do think that Ferret is on to something about Gary Aked’s employment. Sounds like he does work for that Guildford ATK firm, making his categoric denial of al-Hilli having similar employment, if not the same employer, sound quite fishy.
Sounds like what I suggested about a surprising denial by family members and friends if I should suddenly die, and they should be confronted by it. They, like Aked, would deny that it had anything to do with my work.
No one really wants to take responsibility for real disclosures in such circumstances.
Think that Aked knew that al-Hilli’s sentiments about Israel were no different than those of the Iranian President, but wanted to make sure that other sources disclosed what Saad really did to help out.
Am just appalled by the lack of the Swedish media to report, much less do research, on the most unexpected murder of al-Hilli’s mother-in-law, Suhaila al-Allaf, a Swedish citizen.
Am looking into whether her daughter, Mrs. al-Hilli, is still a Swedish citizen too. She must have been born in Sweden, and it’s just a question of what would happen to it when she married a UK one.
The only serious discussion I have found about the massacre is the one below which I was deliberately dragged into by the resident spooks on the TL site in the hope that I would fall for the set up:
http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=52787&st=60&start=60
As you can see, I didn’t, but it shows that there has been an official lid on the massacre since it happened. Just shows that it is some kind of complicated plot.
Ferret.
I ignored that question last night because I thought it sarcastic in a chauvinistic manner.
You now ask again, maybe you could explain why you are asking ?
And of course, it is a terrible tragedy for the children (if the murder did in fact happen as described in the media) and no parent would risk their children’s lives.
But we can’t focus on that all the time or we’d never get anywhere with trying to figure out what really happened, by whom, and why.
So, like I was saying, Gary Aked is of prime focus for me at the moment.
That, and his employer ATK.
http://www.atk.com
Morning Trow.
I don’t think the daughter ,the wife of AH, could have been born in Sweden, she was classed as Iraq/Iranian & her age would say it too. 47 ?
As for the Swedes not investigating……..we just don’t know that.
@Katie
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you (or was it someone else?) say or imply that the women of the Al-Hilli family, as supposed muslim “radicals”, would probably be wearing chadors/hijabs or some other form of non-western dress?
(Suhayl, I’m sure you’ll correct me about my knowledge of Islamic dress which is wholly inadequate!)
I noticed the relatives were all wearing western clothes, which I thought might be a surprise.
Again, I cannot see a long term friend of 20 years who knew all the family , who he socialised with, would be party to wiping out this family. …… the only vague possibility could be that, IF, Aked were involved, then that’s why the children were spared.
No Ferret,not me, Kathy said ‘they were not wearing burkas,that’ll disappoint Katie’, or something of that nature.
So I was right ,your question was loaded !
@Trowbridge
Do think that Ferret is on to something about Gary Aked’s employment. Sounds like he does work for that Guildford ATK firm, making his categoric denial of al-Hilli having similar employment, if not the same employer, sound quite fishy.
Sounds like what I suggested about a surprising denial by family members and friends if I should suddenly die, and they should be confronted by it. They, like Aked, would deny that it had anything to do with my work.
No one really wants to take responsibility for real disclosures in such circumstances.
Thanks Trowbridge, good to get confirmation.
As you can see, I didn’t, but it shows that there has been an official lid on the massacre since it happened. Just shows that it is some kind of complicated plot.
Amen.
Will take a look at that link when I get a chance.
@Katie
Yes, mea culpa, I was teasing slightly.
Naughty Ferret!
🙂
Seriously though, what do you think about Gary Aked, ATK, and Al-Hilli?
Surely you must have a view?
(Definitely NOT teasing. Promise. Serious question.)
Seriously though, what do you think about Gary Aked, ATK, and Al-Hilli?
Surely you must have a view?
>>>>
I have a view yes, they were friends,they had similar work, their conversations must have been very stimulating & I can understand the friendship because of that.
But I cannot see any collaboration for war,spying or terrorism. I just can’t believe they would have the same agenda.
@Katie
Re moderation: often seemingly innocuous posts without any links get caught in the spam filter.
In the absence of Jon, my advice is look for words in your post which might be used in a typical spam, and/or alternate spellings of them.
Delete them and substitute with something else, if you can. Obviously I can’t post examples here or this post would get caught too!
I have a view yes, they were friends,they had similar work, their conversations must have been very stimulating & I can understand the friendship because of that. But I cannot see any collaboration for war,spying or terrorism. I just can’t believe they would have the same agenda.
I see, thanks.
How do you understand Gary Aked’s denial of Al Hilli doing any defence work then?
There is nothing the worst word is ‘socialised.
That’s really funny ,here is my comment without that word.
Again, I cannot see a long term friend of 20 years who knew all the family , who he social**** with, would be party to wiping out this family. …… the only vague possibility could be that, IF, Aked were involved, then that’s why the children were spared.
I can explain GA’s denial with the official secrets act, what is wrong with public denial ?
Here is a summary of what the Swedish and British media, and others, have reported re Suhaila. It´s not much.
1) 74-years old, with Swedish passport. She also holds a passport from Iraq that was found in the car, which then probably correspond to the age of 77 that was initially reported.
2) She has worked as a english teacher in Sweden (?), only spoke arabic and english.
3) Her apartment in Tumba, south of Stockholm and not really a fancy area, was a few days after the killing i France searched by the Swedish Security Service ( ie SÄPO ), and not by the police in her area, which normaly are handling murder investigations. They did not even know that her apartment was being searched, when a Swedish newspaper called them. This is very uncommon.
SÄPO refuse to make any comment ( as usual ), they only tell that all questions should be made to the police in France.
4) No pictues of Suhaila Al-Saffer ( or her doughter Ikbal )has been published, no story re her probably interesting background has been printed.
5) According to a source she worked 1990 outside Jerusalem as a headnurse for “The Four Homes of Mercy”, supposed to be non-political but she attended meetings with PLO at that time. PLO was pro Saddam Hussein.
Here is an article about headnurse “Suhaila”:
http://www.svt.se/2.90398/1.1413289/hur_jag_hamnade_pa_plo-mote_15_november_1990
This is not confirmed in the Swedish media, but I consider the source as pretty reliable.
Re Ikbal it´s also very little known. She studied to become a dentist in Sweden in the nineties, it´s no more info available than what´s been published in British and French media.
It´s surpringly quiet in Swedish media re the case. Normally it would have been a huge interest as two women with strong connections to Sweden was killed. There should have been pics and a several articles re background etc. But there is almost nothing.
Just a correction, the full name of Suhaila is:
Suhaila Al-Allaf
( https://www.flashback.org/sp39273792 )
You must be right, Katie, about Iqbal al-Hilli being born in Iraq, but that doesn’t mean that she couldn’t be a Swedish citizen.
Since 2001, it has been permitted for Swedes to hold dual citizenship – what she most likely became when she married Saad in 2003.
Iqbal’s parents, and brother are all Swedes, and I cannot believe that she isn’t one too, given that she spent much of her life here.
As for the Swedish investigation of the massacre by the media and the police, it sucks.
They lost all interest in it, once it could not be pinned on Iqbal’s crazy brother, Haydar Thaher.
He had been locked up in an English asylum in August after the schizophrenic beat up his mother again.
It’s like the Palme assassination where the troublesome foreigners are supposed to figure out what happened.
Thanks Thomas. That’s a little more about the grannie than we knew.
Thanks for that Thomas, there’s more than we have seen, I had no idea mother was in Jerusalem, the PLO connection flies in the face of them fleeing after a fall out with Saddam though.
You may have seen my theory on why photos have not been published, that being these women could be recognisable by hostile Iraqi’s ?
@Katie
Sorry – work overtook me. Will respond when I can.
Ferret I think the Satelitte being brought down really fits and I think he brought it down over the UK as a sign, one thing I thought last night was do you think Al-Hilli was going to watch the show from the car park he was found in, which doirection does it face?
I think that BM was there to stop Al-Hilli selling his secrets or system/equipment etc on behalf of the UK which was in his bike rack as suggested, this is when either the real buyers turned up or a hit team, this really does fit! I dont think BM Had a bike and to cover his tracks took Al-Hilli to ride down the hill, it would be interesting to know how BM was dressed at the time!
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/21/very-bright-and-spectacular-meteor-seen-over-northern-uk/
“East to west motion is extremely rare for space debris. Was it seen low to the south? If so it might be a spy satellite launched by Israel reentering”
“I know of no space launches to the west other than those spy satellites by Israel launched at an inclination of 36 degrees to the west”
Trow, yes just like AH & family being British citizens they would have become so.
I am curious as to why the unstable brother was in a UK hospital & not a Swedish one though ?
I’m trying to do some work today but one angle I plan to explore is to look at the companies ATK/Honeywell acquired over the years.
Perhaps Aked became an employee of ATK by default ie maybe worked for a company that was acquired at some point by ATK. Likewise could Sylvain and Saad have worked for any of these other companies too in the past etc.
The brother lived in Reading!