My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
“A blow up dolly buried at sea?” Anders7777.
Whatever turns you on. But steady on now. Some bromide, perhaps?
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I believe it’s called MYOPIA 🙂
Aka forum swaying…
Attempt to sell your (nearly worthless) holiday home in France, *perhaps* clean out your Swiss bank account, and *perhaps* seek to sell confidential information that you possess to some very, very dodgy customers, more likely.
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And your PROOF is???
Peter
25 Sep, 2012 – 12:37 pm
@ Thomas
Thanks for the information that SÄPO searched the granny’s flat in Sweden. In my view, that is yet another indication that this case is being treated as terrorism-related.
………………………
Peter, it would appear to be a possibility. But terrorism can cover a lot of bases and may be part of a wider investigation. Also, SÄPO have responsibility for counter-espionage as well as counter-terrorism so, again, we know no more than we did yesterday.
@ peter
25 Sep, 2012 – 12:45 pm
I’m thinking that, since the father transferred the Clayton home into the names of the sons ten years earlier, he may have done the same with any other assets to, so maybe there was no IHT to pay, or not much.
> @All
> Has anyone being able to answer my question about the location. Clearly from the > photo on this page:
> http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/brett-martin-reveals-what-he-saw-1323481
> the road is straight before and after the car park. Yet the place that everyone > seems to accept on Google maps as being the location (http://goo.gl/maps/5v3jV) > is at a sharp bend. So what is the right location?
Still no help with this. Come on guys and gals! I thought you would like to be able to point out on the map where it happened. Location above is not correct.
“What about bin Laden?”
What about him?
“SAH must have been struggling to raise the inheritance tax for the estate that his father left,”
Inheritance tax can be paid direct from the deceased’s account or in installments over 10 years, it shouldn’t have been a problem.
In some South Asian conventions, the wife is given the first name of her husband as her second name (there is no real ‘surname’ equivalent, you see). So, a woman called (given name) Zubaida who marries a man called (given name) Zafar (second name) Khan might end up being called, at various times and by different people, ‘Zubaida Zafar’, ‘Zubaida Khan’, Zubaida Bibi’, or even, ‘Zubaida Begum’. This confuses NHS, etc. organisations no end.
In other cultures, people also change names. So, my grandfather, an Afghan, was given the name, ‘Shahriyar’, but was also known as ‘Ghulam Ahmed’, ‘Shahzada Ghulam Ahmed Durrani’ and (within the family) ‘Agha Jaan’. My mother had at least three given names (plus a nickname) during the course of her life. Different people called her different things, depending on their age, location and relationship to her. I’m not sure about Iraqi naming traditions, but I suspect they will be as complex (fine threads connecting people) and dynamic (quantum), and perhaps in different ways, as the ones I’ve just illustrated. There is obviously no concept of ‘Christening’, you see and the concept of the ‘surname’ is non-existent. Or at least, it was, until the British Raj and later, for many poorer people, migration to the UK. That is why there are so many women of South Asian origin in the UK apparently named ‘Mrs Begum’, which might translate as, ‘Misses Madam’. The other fascinating source of confusion relats to the widespread use, for males, of ‘Mohammad’ as a prefix, rather than a given name – and so, eg. ‘Mohammad Zafar Khan’ would always be called, ‘Zafar’ and never ‘Mohammad’.
My Latest Theory….: The bike rack conundrum.
What if SAL had given SM one of the roof-racks earlier so that he could make up a similar rack made out of zirconium (which possible could be used to move nuclear material, within the zirconium bike rack, given how zirconium can absorb the radiation [or zirconium+ or – hafnium?]). It’s a long shot given I have almost zero knowledge of zirconium etc. but others may know more. If the hypothesis was correct they could make up two zirconium bike carriers and stick the bikes on them and nobody would be any the wiser.
Suhayl Saadi
25 Sep, 2012 – 1:00 pm
Thanks for the lesson there. That was interesting.
He is on Irans side, he doesnt want to see Israel bomb their cities lik they did his, he went back to claim the family business is was a barracks and got little to no money for it and as reported he thought Israel should not exist and thought 9/11 was an inside job!
If he did anything to any satellites it was an Israeli one, as I noted this morning Israels sats are the only ones in the area where the satellite came down the other day!
I think he sabotaged or re-programmed the hunter satellite to take down an importnant Israeli satellite that is used to snoop on Iran and may hdelay any attack for a while!, the Satellite came down over England and was seen from north to south, I think this was a statement and something he believed in. I think the company SSTL and ATK found out and may have warned the Israeli’s, who in turn decided to make the hit!
“Aka forum swaying…” Anders7777.
That must be what happens in Oxfordshire, when the scientists working on space satellites and other “hash-hash” work get really, really high.
Thanks, Blue Bear. Actually, it’d be really useful if a person of Iraqi (or at least ‘Mashriqi – Eastern – Arabic’) origin were posting on this thread/this blog. They might be able to tell us more, at least in some respects, facts that would clear up unnecessary confusion about various things and help the focus be on what is important, etc.
Suhayl Saadi, And French people! So far the only person on the ground on this forum is Katie 😉
Peter, why do you think the involvement of SÄPO means terrorism and not espionage? And why would you not assume that both are a possibility?
@ Blue_Bear 25 Sep, 2012 – 12:56 pm
True. Let’s just say then that the involvement of SÄPO rather than the local cops suggests that this case was treated as “iffy” from early on. Which again makes me wonder why. What on earth did they find on the AHs or SM that immediately led them to the conclusion that these were “no ordinary tourists”?
Iffy is the word.
Off-topic: Brightwell-cum-Sotwell is a lovely place (I used to get very, very high indeed on some hash-hash in Oxfordshire), being the place where Dr Edward Bach, the inventor of the Bach flower therapy, used to work. If you ever go there, do visit his grave. His tombstone has probably the most interesting inscription I have ever come across on a tombstone: “Behold, I am not dead!”
So if it was something that they found at the scene it must have been either the two cell phones, the large bags in the back seat, that people where missing or the passports?
I think the swede is really a big part of this?
” So far the only person on the ground on this forum is Katie.” Blue Bear.
Indeed, and (from her own iterations) it would seem that she is one of many “furriners” in France 🙂
Peter, thanks for the cist recommendation. Graveyards are peaceful, wistful places: “Behold, Ozymandius!” and all that. I knew you’d have been ‘flying’ there. Sit in the middle of a graveyard in England on a sunny day and listen to some early Caravan…
Btw, what does, ‘SAPO’ stand for? is it a specialised Swedish police unit, a sort of Special Branch, or is it the equivalent of the para-military carabinieri in Italy/ gendarmerie in France?
What we need here are French, Iraqi and Swedish bloggers (plus lots of sometime “furriners” like us).
@Roger 25 Sep, 2012 – 1:02 pm
Not just the bike carrier! How about the bikes themselves!?
‘ZR 9000 Alloy — Trek’s Advanced Concept Group spent over a decade developing a new generation of alloy. And their work has finally paid off. During those years, Trek engineers experimented with hundreds of alloy variations to discover a frame material that’s light and fast riding.
The whole character of an alloy is decided by its hardening agents. Creating alloys, engineers will strengthen it with Magnesium, Lithium, or Silicon in small quantities to harden it. But if you make the alloy too strong, it’ll crack when you try to form it. Make it too light, and it’ll dent. After twelve years of development, Trek engineers discovered the perfect amount of the hardening agent Zirconium to create a remarkable material for bike frames.
ZR 9000 Alloy is the first alloy developed exclusively for the bike industry. Why’s that such a big deal? To make superior bike tubes, an alloy must be able to withstand the stresses and stains unique to cycling. The frame material has to be strong, but at the same time be dense, weldable, formable, and capable of heat treatment. This has been achieved by adding the hardening element Zirconium. This has allowed a tubing that is fast and strong enough to surpass the expectations of the riders of the Trek/VW mountain bike racing team. One of Trek’s engineers said of ZR 9000 Alloy, “It’s been fun to work with.” ZR9000 Alloy is now available on seven road and mountain bike models (some made especially for women).’
http://www.totalbike.com/web/interbike/2001/trek_bicycles.html
Nobody seems interested in the Europeiska arbetarpartiet of Sweden!?
Ricki,
Friday Sept 7th 17:30: the trunk was full of business because the couple was staying in a caravan
Translation from here:
http://www.lemessager.fr/Actualite/Chablais/2012/09/05/article_messager_1623629.shtml
Sweden press were investigating from the outset.
Roland Hoskins took this photo of 2 Aftonbladet reporters:
Aftonbladet used the photo in the article:
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1255&bih=594&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:5/9/2012,cd_max:8/9/2012&tbm=isch&tbnid=kvtrrYzvfksK8M:&imgrefurl=http://mobil.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article15406354.ab&docid=FnHU9hN49n4mgM&imgurl=http://m.aftonbladet-cdn.se/i/img/%253Fs%253Df%25257Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fgfx2.aftonbladet-cdn.se%25252Fimage%25252F15405078%25252F480%25252Fnormal%25252F8e41604394464%25252Fbyline_frankrike.jpg%25257Dt1597f320t%2526z%253DC9pT4SjP5%25252Bs%25252BZKeIoAj0eKoNxUI%25253D.jpg&w=320&h=259&ei=zqlhUMqIEoWk0QXuyoDIAg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=440&sig=112673049740154760789&page=2&tbnh=129&tbnw=136&start=20&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:20,i:166&tx=95&ty=69
Business? papers? random items? bags?…………..they dont give anything away these boys do they! its a wall of silence!
Start sending emails to reporters asking why there is no news!
@Straw44berry 25 Sep, 2012 – 1:58 pm
Indeed, the same Aftonbladet of Julian Assange Wikileaks alleged rape fame?
The same Aftonbladet that insinuated that Europeiska arbetarpartiet was set up in Sweden by the CIA in order to label the defectors (American GIs from Vietnam) as left-wing extremists?
Newspapers never forget.
So…
If the fancy house was given by SAH’s father to his sons 10 years or so before his death, and in any case inheritance tax is payable over 10 years, do people feel that the idea that SAH was “a desperate man who needed money” was something that was simply planted by (or in) the mainstream media?
Looking for muck on Saad’s accountant I just found this. The article isnt about the accountant- it’s about a removed post.
You’re gonna love this one
http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2012/09/was-i-right-to-delete-this-post-2449716.html
“Later reports, claim that the capture of the Sentinel drone aircraft was a two-pronged operation which involved penetrating the command and control center running the drones from CIA Headquarters at Langley in McLean, Virginia, while reprogramming the directives guiding a satellite and the RQ-170 stealth drone by falsifying the images appearing on the screens at Langley.[19]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident
Could there be any connection? Just a thought to add to the mix, esp for the people building connections. Right now of course this is just pure speculation.
“Aka forum swaying…” Anders7777.
That must be what happens in Oxfordshire, when the scientists working on space satellites and other “hash-hash” work get really, really high.
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Sorry Suhayl that was not aimed at you! I happen to live in Oxfordshire and it does seem to have more than its fair share of dodgy companies, labs, and .mil bases. Good beer though!
@ Ferret 25 Sep, 2012 – 2:20 pm
Even allowing for a dispute over his father’s estate I don’t believe the al-Hillis were in financial difficulties. No one has said there is a mortgage still being paid on the the Claygate house. Certainly the car, the holiday and the property in France (even allowing for its disrepair), all suggest they had cash enough to get by. Plus Mrs al-Hilli was perhaps in the process of retraining/returning to work as a dentist. Unless there is evidence to the contrary they appear to be an ordinary British professional family of Iraqi extraction with two young children.
@Dopey
Please could you repost the contents of the link here? Thanks!
M69
Very interesting aboutzirvonium and Trek. Owned one or two over the years, but IMHO you can’t beat titanium for a frame material. Super light, rust free, springy, lasts forever pretty much.