My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
So, after 5,500 posts and a very interesting ride, let’s take stock – whodunnit? An interim view, provisional, obviously, no-one can be held to it. One line only from each of the posters here, please and just give your most likely culprit, not a series of them. Feel free. Do venture. I think it would be interesting. Thanks.
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Mossad.
100 pc.
So, after 5,500 posts and a very interesting ride, let’s take stock – whodunnit? An interim view, provisional, obviously, no-one can be held to it. One line only from each of the posters here, please and just give your most likely culprit, not a series of them. Feel free. Do venture. I think it would be interesting. Thanks.
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Mossad.
100 pc.
RAFman ™ was lying, a diplomatic and police and media coverup, Israel is being protected.
If it leaked that Israel massacred 2 Arabs, a Swede, and a French national, ON FRENCH SOIL, leaving two traumatised orphans, then the international community would be rightly outraged.
The West are secretly on board with Israel, but this desperation is too OTT and too early, the timing is all wrong.
Therefore UK panic stations, cannot have the truth come out, at least until WW3 is over.
Suhayl …….. Iraq/Islamist, why ?
Because AH, refused to help them.
@Anders
I haven’t found out what “it” is yet
@Ferret
A burst of exponential expansion from Brett Martin’s favourite web design – now a new office is opened in a swish business park in Guildford (where have we come across that Cathedral city before?) yet strangely not mentioned on their facebook page.
MAYS WEB DESIGN LTD GUILDFORD
11A, 3000 CATHEDRAL HILL
GU2 7YB GUILDFORD, SURREY
Phone: 01483 338911
Photo here:
http://www.3000cathedralhill.co.uk/description/index.php
Going global.
Their latest domain http://www.maysdigital.co.uk/ yields nothing.
Their Brighton office was/is at MAYS WEB DESIGN LTD. 10A, 3RD FLOOR, QUEENSBURY HOUSE, 106 QUEENS ROAD BN1 3XF BRIGHTON, EAST SUSSEX.
There’s also a Southampton office (Fareham) 12A, FORUM 3, SOLENT BUSINESS PARK, PO15 7FH FAREHAM A huge enterprise which has produced at last count five websites, including some rather strange ones. Must be a lot of rent being paid!
Suhayl …….. Iraq/Islamist, why ?
Because AH, refused to help them.
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So WHY would a DA notice go out to protect Iraq or Iran?
If Iran did it, SIS would be laughing.
More importantly, so would Israel, and the PNAC BOYZ, and they’d make SURE the whole world knew the score.
The fact that NONE of this is happening points to only one SLC.
Whodunnit? Organized-crime figures based in the UK, but possibly with iraqi roots, hired by a member of the AH family.
Suhayl,
The butler did it.
The whole thing is a sham. No murders.
@Anders @Ricki Tarr
“what purpose would it serve to release such footage? There’s no public interest” © Kempe.
Family of 5 – three dead one injured, two orphaned. (allegedly)
No public interest. Teacher runs off with pupil. Very very spicy.
Bingo.
@Ferret
Sudden growth spurt of Mays Digital – i have a comment awaiting mod. Added two links, unfortunately. Please see 6.43 pm when moderated.
@anders7777 – can we be certain that a DA notice has been issued? I thought that was still unresolved, from the evidence available. There was the report of a note on Indymedia from an anonymous journo, but I’m not sure that constitutes evidence – that could have been posted by anyone.
One has also to remember there has been so much other news to keep journalists busy, plus, this is a French led op.
I do however wonder why we have not been told about police leaving Claygate …or not.
@Felix – So if someone had been on the same ferry as the Al-Hilli’s and had seen someone acting suspiciously and the CCTV footage jogged their memory that wouldnt be important? that wouldnt be of the public interest but certainly in the interets of the investigation. I was basically using it as an example of who differentlythe media and police are treating this case to most other murders!
Id say by the number of posts and lurkers on this site that there really is public interest!
@ Katie
I do however wonder why we have not been told about police leaving Claygate …or not.
I linked an article from the BBC saying something to that effect earlier today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-19714348
Alps family murder: Police complete Surrey house search
However, the article also says that police are going to continue guarding the property.
Does anyone live near one of the Mays Dig offices? fancy a covert operation?
@Kenneth Sorensen
You will find in the stuff I sent earlier Saad al-Hilli was also involved in work Sadams Nuclear Project,so as I said he was no ordinary Joe. He must have had some fairly High Security Clearance, I would think
Very young Saad (Between 19 and 29 year old) helped Saddam? Okay posiible
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/03/01/another_bogus_argument_for_war_with_iran
As Malfrid Hegghammer, Daniel Reiter, and Richard Betts have all shown, the destruction of Osirak led to an elite consensus that Iraq needed its own deterrent, and led Saddam Hussein to order a redoubling of Iraq’s nuclear program in a more clandestine fashion. This effort was so successful that the UN inspectors who entered Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War were surprised by how extensive the program was and how close it had come to producing a bomb. Indeed, if Saddam had been smart enough to wait a few more years, he might have crossed the nuclear finish line.
Kenneth, thank you for the confirmation that SAH was old enough to have participated in the nuclear program in Iraq.
Katie, I don’t believe that SAH being Shia and not Sunni, nor supporting Saddam or his government would neccessarily have prevented SAH from taking part in top scientific work on a nuclear reactor.
That’s a bit like saying that because a person is a labour voter they wouldn’t work in a nuclear reactor or on a military project in Con-Dem Britain, which I think anyone can see is a bit of a specious argument.
It sounds to me as if the source of that information has some reason to post it (ie a source) rather than just making it up, so if you want to counter it you’re going to have to come up with something better than merely “I don’t think so”.
I’m a bit behind so please forgive me if this ground has already been covered.
@Ricki Tarr
Good find re Esher People. Key phrase in the article:
Detectives have said they have found nothing at the Oaken Lane home to help them in their investigation.
Unbelievable.
If this were a real investigation, I feel that their attention would have been directed to 33 Oaken Lane, home of the accountant, Mr Julian Stedman.
Mr Stedman was quoted re the Airbus kitchen by Reuters:
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/09/07/uk-france-killings-idINLNE88601Q20120907
(Alessandra Rizzo in Claygate – senior copy editor)
Stedman also put the Reading connection into the public domain.
Right F*** it!, its time to get our hands dirty! thats the only way we will get more info, as someone said last night we have dug up some great info and could confirm things if we make phone calls and send emails and turn up to these places, im not talking going mad on this just some exploring! even if we start emailing the MSM reporters we have seen on this case in the past to see why there is no news on this as at all!
Ask questions!
@Ferret – you throw up an interesting name there – Malfrid Hegghammer, who was a student at the spooky LSE in 2003 befriended Dr David Kelly and had an interesting series of email exchanges with him shortly before his death.
@ Ricki Tarr 25 Sep, 2012 – 7:04 pm
I think that your take on this is spot-on. As far as we know, there have been no public appeals for potential witnesses to come forward, no E-Fits of the driver of that black Mitsubishi Pajero / Shogun allegedly seen in the area, no real information at all forthcoming from the french prosecutor.
Moreover, the crime scene appears to have been treated as some kind of a joke by investigators. In the closing seconds of this video
http://video-streaming.orange.fr/actu-politique/le-calme-est-revenue-a-chevaline-haute-savoie_12873107.html
a plastic hubcap lying around at the scene of the crime is shown. That hubcap is definitely not from the AH’s BMW – that car has fancy aluminium wheels and hence doesn’t need hubcaps. Likewise, the hubcap cannot have been left there after the crime, because the road leading to the parking lot is still cordoned off. Now, I’m not a forensic scientist, but if I found a stray hubcap lying around at the scene of a major crime, I should most definitely take it with me.
re Stedman – correction, Foley Road, not Oaken Lane (which is where Al-Hilli and the other media chatty (early on, of course) neighbour George Anthony Aicolina lived.
@felix
Bango bongo
And kate’s fried eggs on a cheese grater 🙂
@anders7777 – can we be certain that a DA notice has been issued? I thought that was still unresolved, from the evidence available. There was the report of a note on Indymedia from an anonymous journo, but I’m not sure that constitutes evidence – that could have been posted by anyone.
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I am 100 pc certain.
Thanks Peter, yes I missed that link earlier. I think the police must continue to guard the property until the investigations are over because the world & his wife know its empty.jpurnalists would be in there like a rat up a drainpipe……..
A family member should move in & save us the expense.
Ferret, so what about the Al-Hilli’s leaving due to persecution by Saddam’s regime , would Saad have buried all that & sunk his pride/anger/humiliation just to help Saddam get nuclear weapons….. I can’t see it.
@anders7777 – can we be certain that a DA notice has been issued? I thought that was still unresolved, from the evidence available. There was the report of a note on Indymedia from an anonymous journo, but I’m not sure that constitutes evidence – that could have been posted by anyone.
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LSE is spook central.
Disgusting place, just like Tavistock.
SIR Mick Jagger got his 33 degree there.
This goes dddeeeeeeeeeeeeppp
@Katie
The question is, did Eric Maillaud have any view of the alleged crime scene before midnight 5 sept.
@Peter
Good video find. It is a 5-star farce.
@Roger
You are right to question the car park location. The parking place normally used by the French is at Martinet. (779m I think, check the thread)
Philippe D (if he is real) said of meeting BM: Le parking du Martinet n’était pas loin, alors nous avons appelé les pompiers et nous sommes montés voir ce qu’on pouvait faire (non-sequitur?)
The Parking Place du Martinet is marked on this site:
http://www.camptocamp.org/parkings/278469/fr/le-martinet
Does it agree??
Suhayl Saadi: whodunnit..?
I’m undecided. If the 20 alleged “military types” got there before more than one or two coppers then I think extraction is possible. If the place was swarming with paramedics/coppers then I can’t see how they could keep it quiet. However, I’ve seen absolutely nothing to suggest that the family seen at the campsite were killed in that car-park.
At one point I toyed with the idea that nothing happened at the car-park and the family went (possibly along with Mollier) direct to a safe place via chopper from another half-way-house. RAF-man was there to liaise with Police/Agencies to set up the entire charade. Maybe he drove the car up there on his own, shot it up then waited for the kids to be dropped off by a third party. Maybe he had the kids with him.
I wondered if the whole thing was a distraction technique to take our minds off something more important – but all of the important things going on internationally seem like they may be connected in some way – even tenuously :s
I should say that everytime I write something about this case I think of those girls when they get old enough to do their own internet research. They’ll be reading this blog one day 🙁
@anders7777 – you are certain a D notice has been issued – why? We can’t work on the basis that one has been issued unless we see evidence.
re Stedman – correction, Foley Road, not Oaken Lane (which is where Al-Hilli and the other media chatty (early on, of course) neighbour George Anthony Aicolina lived.
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Why did SAH have a Jewish accountant?
Julian STEDMAN.
Same age as Jack SALTMAN too. 😉
@anders7777 – you are certain a D notice has been issued – why? We can’t work on the basis that one has been issued unless we see evidence.
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Experience.
@ Suhayl Saadi 25 Sep, 2012 – 6:17 pm
If there was an assignation is it more likely, as the local, that SM would have suggested the place – thus allowing time to get there and back on his bike and a short period for the interaction/transaction? This might explain his partner’s early contact with the police if had not returned by a certain time.
What transpired suggests that the arrangements were compromised either because communications were intercepted, and/or either party was followed on the day; or there was a leak from those with advance knowledge (who may have set up the assignation via either of the murdered men) to others unknown who carried out the murders.
So I think SM and SAH may have been pawns, put in play by different agencies in order to flush the other out, thinking he was genuine. They may have been killed by a third agency who believed they constituted a real threat.
I believe the murders are more likely than an extraction or rendition but wouldn’t entirely rule out the latter possibilities.