My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
He did not have a Jewish account. Stedman is an English name as I showed you earlier.
Ferret, so what about the Al-Hilli’s leaving due to persecution by Saddam’s regime , would Saad have buried all that & sunk his pride/anger/humiliation just to help Saddam get nuclear weapons….. I can’t see it.
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But you swallowed the WMD IRAQ FAIRYTALE ™ ???
🙂
anders7777
25 Sep, 2012 – 7:49 pm
@anders7777 – you are certain a D notice has been issued – why? We can’t work on the basis that one has been issued unless we see evidence.
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Experience.
…………………………
Anders, I think I like you and your posts. But statements like that are poor imo. I’d say that most people here would make the logical connection between the apparent black-out and a D-notice/lack of CCTV/real investigation etc. But to suggest that it’s 100% nailed-on could be off-putting to many others. Just sayin’…
@anders7777 – not good enough, I’m afraid. For your arguments to be persuasive, you need to actually present them!
@Suhayl Saadi Mossad did it.
Ooops: 7-51 = Accountant
We could use a Surrey newspaper to post a belated Obituary of the Al-Hilli’s mentioning something the D-Notice wouldnt allow.
Parking place, Combe D’Ire,Le Martinet
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=+6%C2%B0+13%27+27.28%22+E+45%C2%B0+43%27+43.85%22N&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.728847,6.224248&spn=0.001906,0.003449&sll=21.166452,-86.836658&sspn=0.010185,0.013797&t=h&z=18
Anders, I think I like you and your posts. But statements like that are poor imo. I’d say that most people here would make the logical connection between the apparent black-out and a D-notice/lack of CCTV/real investigation etc. But to suggest that it’s 100% nailed-on could be off-putting to many others. Just sayin’…
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Fine. Experience again. You had the same problem thinking a 7,000 post thread here is normal British public exuberance. It isn’t.
Hey-Ho! 🙂
@anders7777 – not good enough, I’m afraid. For your arguments to be persuasive, you need to actually present them!
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Good enough for ME Jon! 🙂
Carry on!
@ Q
“How about the the name of Mrs. al-Hilli’s mother’s husband? Would that be common in Bahrain?”
Was there a Bahrain connection? Anyway, I don’t know anything about Bahrain.
@Anders:
One more thing of note. Downstream from Chalk River is the town of Pembroke, Ontario. This is where tritium signs are recycled.
http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/canada-approved-shipment-of-tritium-to-iran/
@jon
To clarify ref the DA notice:
Evidence of absence is evidence of any kind that suggests something is missing or that it does not exist, as in the evidentiary axiom[1] that “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”.[2] A simple example of evidence of absence: checking one’s pocket for spare change and finding none but being confident that one would have found it there, were it anywhere to be found
@Kathy:
I searched the name and it came up in Bahrain. Probably as common as “John Smith”. I don’t know.
@Anders:
One more thing of note. Downstream from Chalk River is the town of Pembroke, Ontario. This is where tritium signs are recycled.
http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/canada-approved-shipment-of-tritium-to-iran/
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Thank Q again.
My watches are littered with tritium! 😉
@ Q
Actually if you google it there are quite a few Al Saffars if that was his name, in Bahrain.
I’ve just ventured onto Friends Reunited to look at Saad’s profile. This is all that’s on it –
“Well I am sitting here at my PC trying to think of something 🙂 .. I run my own company designing machinery for companies (mostly medical). I am Very Happily married with a seven month old daughter that has me rapped around her little finger already :)”
He went to Pimlico School.
and
He’s dropped the “al” on there. He’s listed as Saad Hilli.
@anders7777 – not good enough, I’m afraid. For your arguments to be persuasive, you need to actually present them!
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Logical fallacy Jon 🙂
As you well know, by it’s very nature, a DA notice is SECRET.
Therefor how is one to provide PROOF, which you seem to be demanding.
The proof is in the pudding.
This case is the bastard child of the 4th estate.
ERGO
DA
I’ve just ventured onto Friends Reunited to look at Saad’s profile. This is all that’s on it –
“Well I am sitting here at my PC trying to think of something .. I run my own company designing machinery for companies (mostly medical). I am Very Happily married with a seven month old daughter that has me rapped around her little finger already ”
He went to Pimlico School.
and
He’s dropped the “al” on there. He’s listed as Saad Hilli.
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And apparently he was a very JOVIAL person, per his JEWISH accountant.
And he was BESTEST FRIENDS with his Jewish nosey neighbour from hell, JACK SALTMAN.
So musta had lots of JOVIAL friends, eh???
Where are they?
I would not be surprised to find the next items fed to the media:
– Saad al-Hilli did not have a PhD., so who could possibly be interested in killing him?
– Saad al-Hilli was a mere engineer without security clearance who did not do anything important, so it’s obvious no one would want to kill him. He built kitchens for airlines, okay?
– Saad al-Hilli was not an atomic physicist, so who would kill him?
– Hints about how Saad al-Hilli had a dark side. Someone will quote a piece of poetry he liked, and mention how dark it is.
– Scientists and engineers are eccentric on top of their dark side, so they’re lonely people who might think of doing themselves in. Even if they take family holidays, and do their VAT returns, these are clearly people with suicidal intent at all times. Even when they make plans for the future.
– It was a murder-suicide, and nothing to do with his work.
As someone once said, anyone can build a nuclear reactor. The devil is in the materials science.
@Anders @Jon
The complete lack of speculation in the press points to a D Notice. The story has all the elements to come up with sensational speculation, but nothing apart from re-written press releases.
It stinks of a cover up.
I have changed my handle from earlier posts. Was getting a bit paranoid ….lol
Re the DA-notice that is discussed, there is also a legal way to censor press outside UK.
Expressens ( one of the largest Swedish newspaper ) edititor in chief wrote recently about an injunction ( or “gag-order” ) they recieved from a British court.
Google-translated:
“Expressen has warned that writing about a recent court case in England. Which case it is about, Expressen editor Thomas Mattsson will not tell, but says it is very current.
The English legal system is a special form of prior censorship, injunction. It means that the courts can ban the media to write some things about specific individuals. About this subject Thomas Mattsson wrote a blog post.
But the ban is dependent that the medium in question was aware that there was an injunction.
—-
– I chose not to specify which case it’s all about in my blog post, for fear of contributing to raising awareness of the specific order. This is because the court says that it includes all who know it, but consequently not others.
– It is well to say the least questionable whether the information in my post could be considered to act as a kind of service to other Swedish media who read it, but it’s enough to get editors who want to litigate to get right on that point. So I gave up some details, it’s still the principle of injunctions – ie pre censorship – that is interesting.
The court that issued the warrant, Thomas Mattsson will not say, but he shows the extract of the warning he had received from England. It says, among other things, that “the order binds all who know that the order issued to follow the order”
http://www.journalisten.se/nyheter/expressen-varnas-av-engelskt-rattsvasende
This could very well be the reason why the Swedish press have kept more or less silent about the two victims with connections to Sweden.
There is further no traces on internet of Ikbal and Suhaila, which is surprising.
The complete lack of speculation in the press points to a D Notice. The story has all the elements to come up with sensational speculation, but nothing apart from re-written press releases.
It stinks of a cover up.
I have changed my handle from earlier posts. Was getting a bit paranoid ….lol
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Cheers Orpheus x 3
Appreciate the backup
I’m amazed I even have to argue the point, but what do I know…
Presenting Dr Ali Al Hilli scientist and researcher:
“Innovative Muslim Minds (IMM) was set up in 2008 to cater for young Muslims in North West London. Members and participants were predominantly second-generation Iraqis looking to make sense of their identity, religion and above all maintain their community.”
http://www.immonline.org/activities/community/speaker-biographies/dr-ali-al-hilli/
Make sure you click on IMM….next to the ‘Home’ tab. See ‘team members’ they are nearly all Pharmacists,medics,Molecular Biology & law.
Many many thanks Thomas, this confirms things for me.
I thought that the aunt who went to France was Iqbal’s sister but I don’t recognize her as being one of the group of relatives leaving the hospital that was posted on here. Here is a University of Reading link to her photograph – second one down.
http://www.pharmacy.rdg.ac.uk/staff/khutoryanskiy/group.pdf
Make sure you click on IMM….next to the ‘Home’ tab. See ‘team members’ they are nearly all Pharmacists,medics,Molecular Biology & law.
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And WHAT do you deduce from yet another spaghetti junction trail?
Conclusions?
A name?
A link?
Or…???
It was reported that the aunt who went to France was Iqbal’s sister but I don’t recognise her as being one of the group of relatives leaving the hospital that was posted on here. Here is a link to her photograph – second one down.
http://www.pharmacy.rdg.ac.uk/staff/khutoryanskiy/group.pdf
Mossad did the killing and Nato have what they needed.
SAH used/played to flush out SM.
SM left for dead with RAF man cleaning up.
Team leave with SAH and the ”roof-rack”
This smells bad for D-notice and msm cover up.
Smells as bad as Saville and Heath the morning
after a trip to HLG on board ”Morning Sickness.
@Felix
A burst of exponential expansion from Brett Martin’s favourite web design – now a new office is opened in a swish business park in Guildford (where have we come across that Cathedral city before?)
Very very interesting… I wish I had more time to investigate that guy and his 88 companies…
@CD
I disagree. I think the inanities or small details may get us to the point where the truth of what happened – be it extraction or rendition or assassination – is more credible.
Very good point!
@Katie
So why didn’t we hear more about [Saddam’s] nuclear before the invasion ?
We did. Yellowcake forgery, remember?
@Katie
Ferret, so what about the Al-Hilli’s leaving due to persecution by Saddam’s regime , would Saad have buried all that & sunk his pride/anger/humiliation just to help Saddam get nuclear weapons….. I can’t see it.
I suspect he would have done it before the persecution, or perhaps despite it. He’s a scientist, after all, and he wants to do science.
When did he leave exactly – anyone know?
@Blue Bear
At one point I toyed with the idea that nothing happened at the car-park and the family went (possibly along with Mollier) direct to a safe place via chopper from another half-way-house. RAF-man was there to liaise with Police/Agencies to set up the entire charade.
I like your line of thinking!
@Orph3us
The complete lack of speculation in the press points to a D Notice. The story has all the elements to come up with sensational speculation, but nothing apart from re-written press releases.
It stinks of a cover up.
Well said, I couldn’t agree more.