My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Peter sorry no dice, would not have to leave skidmarks because the movement i’m suggesting does not cause skid marks of the sort visible in the photo. it takes place at a much slower speed at the end of a bigger movement, against the grain of the tires – i.e sideways. our opinions clearly differ, as ever, but it seems one hell of a coincidental set of skid marks, especially as we ‘know’ the engine was running the car was against a bank, suggesting recent rapid reverse movement. You seemed very definite about it all, which of course unless you were there, you can’t be
@ Bilbo Mortdecai
Another reason why I don’t think that the tracks were not left by the BMW is that they seem to have been caused by a car pulling away from the BMW. The tracks are much deeply contoured on the right-hand side (from the birdseye view) of the car park. To my mind, those deeper tracks suggest that a car braked there (going backwards, pulling away from the left-hand side of the car park where the BMW is).
If you don’t see it that way, let’s just agree to differ.
@ ricki
“It also looks as though the girl was placed on the front of the car after being shot!”
Ricki do you mean she was placed on the bonnet, or placed in front of the car on the ground?
I think we need a virtual Carrie Mathison style wall with people connected to the case and a timeline, it may help us make sense of all the information we have gathered and point us in the right direction!
The circular skid marks relate to a far larger vehicle than the BMW
http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/al-hilli-murder-case-elusive-white-4×4.html
If you question which witnesses you want to believe. If the 2 bricklayers were planted.
It is possible for all the people and the BMW being transported on a vehicle similar to the one that removed the BMW. The shootings happened elsewhere and the car & bodies brought to the location together.
Fire off 30 seconds of gunfire. Place Sylvain’s body and Zainab in front of the car.
We have almost no evidence to corroborate each other. Philippe D & Brett barely agreed on a single thing. The two accompanying ladies didnt even get the chance to say what they saw.
@CD
Just pointing out that the profits of £8,330 from S(aad)H(illi)Tech may have come after he had paid himself a salary of £65,000.
In theory, yes, that’s possible, but in this case though, I doubt it.
In the year to 31/1/2010, SHTech paid dividends of £13,100 plus Directors’ salaries of £5,750, making in a total of £18,850 gross payments to SAH. And it posted a Gross Profit of £25,815. (Duedil is your friend!)
I can’t see anything for the year to 31/1/2011… not sure if this is because the latest accounts posted at Companies House on 24/8/12 are not yet in Duedil, or if there actually weren’t any dividends or salaries (as I suspect).
Peter – the skid marks to me suggest somebody in a serious panic/hurry, who else would be in such a panic apart from mr ah ? Your explanation allows an awfully generous reversing circle, were the murderers driving a lorry ?
Yes on the Bonnet (I didnt want to confuse anyone that dont use the phrase), I have a hunch that she was shot by the driver side window and then threatend further whilst on the bonnet of the car, that is when the car reversed as it looks as though she dropped onto the floor!
@Trowbridge
James Barnett’s info is most helpful, especially when one understands that SAH’s satellite work did not require signing the OSA, and was said to be of a non-military nature.
Bingo.
But it did have military applications when it came to the thickness of sand, etc.
Exactly. Or how to operate a remote maintenance satellite to dock with someone else’s and give it a “boost”.
And SAH was apparently suffering from the same false assumption that Gareth Williams had whrn he thought he was free from legal sanctions when he and Gudrun Loftus divulged the Afghan Log to Wikileaks and Julian Assange.
While the FBI could not get them, the covert operators certainly did.
Ahhhhhh…. I wondered why Gareth Williams had been offed by his own… Makes total sense now.
And SIS helped make SAH pay for his liberties with info of great strategic importance.
I don’t quite follow – what are you saying exactly?
Mistakenly called Möllemann Owe in a previous post when his first name is Jurgen. Got that conspiracy assassination mixed up with that one of Uwe Barschel.
No worries – thanks for clearing that up.
An extract taken from the Anorak site.
Sounds like this Ali cousin was intending to stake a claim for the kids. I know there’s an Ali Al Hilli in Baghdad with a company so wondering if it’s him.
His cousin Ali al-Hilli tells the Telegraph
“I don’t think Zaid is coping with the pressure. He is really in very deep shock. When I spoke to him he was clearly devastated. He wasn’t coping. He is on his own. I think he feels lonely. I was trying my best to give him support although I am far away… Icalled Zaid the same day I heard the news to see how he was doing. He was in shock. My sister and I were offering support for him and especially around the issue of the girls: how we can look after them and make sure they have a prosperous future, and that is our focus at the moment. My sister was in contact with the British authorities offering to be responsible for them at some stage. The message was the family would like to take care of the girls and she is ready to go and help them with schooling and we even had a discussion with Zaid to ensure he takes a role as well, and he needs to focus on the girls…As far as I know, Zaid is intending to go to France to look after the children…”
Ricki – there seems to be an unbelievable amount of blood all over the scene, according to that photo, enough to suggest that perhaps even more people were shot/injured there ?
Your explanation allows an awfully generous reversing circle, were the murderers driving a lorry ?
Actually, those tracks could have been left by a lorry. I didn’t try to be scientific about it and correct for perspective (perhaps someone here would be so kind), but just by using a ruler in a graphics program, it would seem that those semicircular tyre tracks are markely (+ 20%) wider apart than the BMW is wide.
peter, i stand very corrected !
Ricki,
The odd mark on the left hand side of the bonnet, could that be a bullet mark where Zainab was shot whilst on the bonnet?
… and they match the track width of the recovery vehicle quite accurately (which, coming up the road from the left, must have reversed in order to get into the position where it is in the photo). That would also account for the apparent freshness of the tyre tracks.
Peter / Bilbo read this pleeeeease:-
http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/al-hilli-murder-case-elusive-white-4×4.html
@ Straw44berry
But I did (and thank you for that link). That’s what gave me the idea to use a ruler.
@Dopey
Sounds like this Ali cousin was intending to stake a claim for the kids.
Maybe they’re planning a family reunion in Baghdad?
😉
This is preposterous! You of course can’t connect any tracks with anything, because loads of police-cars and others (the famous 20 Brits) came in cars, and as you know the road is very narrow and they all had to U-turn in this small lay by! Also a sweeper car was at the scene, could have swept a bit (blood among other things) on the hard pressed gravel as well. Likewise you of course can’t deduct anything from any glass laying about after so many people and cars have been on the scene, and remember this glass could be old bottle glass, you just don’t know
@Straw – yes I would agree with that, the patches I noticed the most is at the bottom right of the picture just past the police tape! looks like someone made off through these trees as the blood leads that way!
Also I was just been looking at Steven Swinford (Telegraph reporter) twitter and he has a message from Jamey Keaten re thsi case, jamey is an AP reporter who specialises in the below:
jamey
@jameykeaten
AP reporter based in Paris specializing in politics, foreign affairs, defense, security, and intermittently, cycling. News tips welcome.
@ Ferret 26 Sep, 2012 – 1:58 pm
Point taken. Is there any statement of turnover, or income for the year – presuming all income arises from SAH’s contracted services (which would be VAT liable, if he is re-claiming VAT on his business expenditures).
@Peter
Usually, whenever little children become victims of crime, the UK media in particular will whip themselves into a frenzy. Where are all those foaming-at-the-mouth front-page articles angrily demanding “justice for little Zeena and Zainab”
Where indeed.
:puzzled:
Hence my “Maddy?” comment to Jon last night, when he said maybe there just isn’t enough public interest to keep it in the news.
I admit there isn’t a lot of “news” in this story – facts are hard to come by – but still… with Maddy, the papers went and actively *dug up* the news to keep it in the papers.
And the latest hot story is the teacher with his 15 year old pupil, run away to France… I don’t mean to trivialise that in any way, but at least they are both alive and well (and neither is thought to be under any sort of threat).
I hesitate to say this, but I’m starting to think that the papers and public don’t really care about this case because of institutionalised racism: the Al-Hilli’s are (were) brown-skinned and Muslim, of Iraqi descent, so the establishment doesn’t really consider them “one of us” – and generally, people don’t care in the same way they did (do) about Maddy.
Ultimately, if that’s true it’s a bit sad… and as I said, I hesitate to say it because it might be inflammatory, which is not my intention in the slightest.
And I’m not wedded to this idea being “the truth” either. I might well be wrong, and people are very welcome to disagree.
Straw i did, hence my concession to peter ! thank you. I’ve also been curious about that mark since the very beginning, exactly the sort of ‘scolding’ mark one might expect to be a result of such a shot
Ferret – a while back you asked about the mollier archery club photo – my first thoughts, deliverance. killers (and not just animals)
@Peter
Anyway, to my mind, this particular topic [drone guidance systems] would have been one that SAH knew a lot about, and probably the most valuable knowledge he possessed.
Couldn’t agree more.
(Not forgetting of course any possible nuclear and/or SILEX knowlege SAH had – but those two are more speculative at this point, I believe.)
Ferret
Good spot re ‘a.neather’ etc
Did not see that previously
(+ more general apologies to you all (call me nick clegg if you like) – i am prone to too much alcohol and manic/depressive ‘swings'(n’roundsabouts), (but zuzspect i’m not the only one))
Pt
Yes, it is interesting to compare active reportage of the huge ‘hunt’ in France for the teacher and teenager with the passive, almost casual approach to finding the killers of the Al-Hillis and M. Mollier.
Ferret
Good spot re ‘a.neather’ etc
Did not see that previously
(+ more general apologies to you all (call me nick clegg if you like) – i am prone to too much alcohol and manic/depressive ‘swings'(n’roundsabouts), (but zuzspect i’m not the only one))
Pt
Ps
Bluebear ‘military types’ – points noted (¬ deleted)
All I’m saying, Ferret, is that SAH apparently assumed falsely that there were no serious risks in telling the Iranians what the ESA’s satellites (and the NRO’s too) could do to its underground installations when directors of MI5, GCHQ, and Sir John Sawers had made clear in the wake of the Williams, Loftus and Rawlings killing that no leaking of secrets that the Americans held dear would be tolerated in the slightest.
For insurance, SAH took along the family, and they got it too.
This is really the fallout of what Wikileaks and Julian Assange have achieved – i. e., if you leak, you very likely will be killed.
Fereret is total laughing stock!
Looks what he wrote here around midday:
HA-ha-ha. That program was terminated after the first Gulf War ended in spring 1990, when SAAD was 27-28 years old, which means that he had just barely graduated. Sure he was a bright kid, and he could have assisted Saddam during the 80’s, when a consensus among Iraq’s elite developed following Israel’s attack on the Osirak reactor in 1981 (which marks the first time in peace time that a countrys military just flies in an attacks a civilian installation) that it needed to redouble its effort to get the bomb as a deterent.
@CD
I can’t see anything for the year to 31/1/2011… not sure if this is because the latest accounts posted at Companies House on 24/8/12 are not yet in Duedil, or if there actually weren’t any dividends or salaries (as I suspect).
Sorry, I made a mistake there, I was confusing what I’d seen about AMS 1087 with SHTech.
:-S
SHTech’s most recent accounts were actually filed on 20/10/2011, not 24/8/2012.
Point taken. Is there any statement of turnover, or income for the year – presuming all income arises from SAH’s contracted services (which would be VAT liable, if he is re-claiming VAT on his business expenditures).
Unfortunately the most recent ones, made up to 31/1/2011, are very sketchy and there’s no statement of turnover, just a balance sheet and fixed assets.
That’s odd… I thought you had to file more than that…?