My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@Trowbridge
Seems to me that we have reached this point in our searches, but please correct me if I am wrong, or have left out something important:
1. Al-Hilli could have helped Saddam in his hopes of still gaining nuclear weapons after the first Gulf War, making him most bitter after his ouster in the second one.
2. Al-Hilli in meeting, marrying and having children with Iranian Suhaila al-Allaf became so committed to seeking revenge against the perpetrators of the Gulf Wars, especially because of the losses Iran had experienced through NRO-made earthquakes in keeping Tehran at bay during them, that he ultimately decided to spy for the Iranians, particularly because of paranoia about Israel’s role in the process.
3. Al-Hilli’s work at SSTL gave him access to information and know-how about new miniature, radar satellites which would alert Tehran about the dangers its nuclear and weapons programs faced and what counter measures to adopt, and how it could catch up in the intelligence-gathering game.
4. Unfortunately for him and the Iranians, the West learned of what he was up to, thanks to eavesdropping by America’s National Security Agency and its allies, and arranged for him and his whole family to be killed with help from France, Israel and the UK.
5. France arranged for Sylvain Mollier to meet him, acting as if he were an emissary from Tehran so that he could make up for his past mistakes, while Tel Aviv got its Mossad kidon going for the kill, and loads of sayonim in action to explain away what happened – like in the David Kelly murder. Brett Martin was the Brits clean-up man to make sure that nothing got out of control during the cover-up.
6. London sent enough messages about an apparent DA so that everyone knew to play it cool when it came to writing it up.
7. STV’s Lars Borgnäs got the process started in Sweden, as he had done in the Anna Lindh assassination, by getting Säpo involved in a wild-goose hunt for crazy Haydar Thaher, Mrs. al.Hilli’s brother who was then incarcerated in an English mental hospital.
8. The media in general was then too busily occupied with all kinds of predictions and stories about the final showdown by the West with Tehran to pay much attention.
Conclusion: Case closed.
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Excellent summary! I’d go along with most of it.
Kinda gets vague as to the hit though, a set-up or not.
Could have been that SAH regularly had meets with Sylvain over the years, thus he felt safe.
BUT, it was to be their last rendezvous. SAH may well have been going to do a flit after the meet, hence all the passports in the car, see the Manchester journalist stuff above.
Kidon were waiting to take out both, and France nor the UK nor the USA would have been informed.
The 3 would have nixed it as being far too risky.
So I think Mossad went it alone and sprung a nasty surprise – remember, our SIS chief has been visiting BIBI twice recently, to get him on some serious valium.
Why a nasty surprise? Because of panic stations, the 20 man team airlifted to Chaveline sur le Mort, and the slightly late DA notice, too late to stop initial accurate reports. See above from CRYPTONYM.
OBOMBYA is refusing to even meet with BIBI, he has just been snubbed AGAIN.
BIBI recently went apeshit and started screaming at the US ambassador.
I think BIBI said to Mossad, “F%%k ’em, let’s show them who’s boss!”…
Why did he go to Iran in 2010 it was meant to be a pilgramage but he’s not over religious? He lost contracts because of it! He’s working for Mi6 this is obvious prob from 2007 when he was stung and turned but also got his citizenship the same year, barganing chip? Why then go to Iran? Is he a double?
@ ricki
26 Sep, 2012 – 7:43 pm
Ricki it wa reported that he got citizenship in 2002.
Anders,
Do you remember Bradstone?
@Everyone Bradstone was on the beginning of the David Icke thread and appeared to be spouting out nonsense/things that were too far fetched. Anders & Bradstone didnt get on.
Bradstone said Ok I wont post anymore.
More info came out and we all wanted Bradstone to comeback.
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Yes Straw, but I did read his stuff. I read everything, I’m a quick reader. If you don’t, you’ll miss that AHA! moment we are all after.
Do read my last few posts, they are my AHA!
Mossad.
Trowbridge that is amazing! maybe he was set up uk and it was raf man he was meeting as he was going to fly them out but that’s when the mossad turned up! Maybe mollier really was just there at the wrong time!
Is the absence of the usual people other than the hardcore an indication that we really have cracked it!
I’m still here Ricki! But only reading
Rec that’s fine mate do you think we’ve cracked it?
@KS
I hear some of you saying: “Well, Iraqs programme was terminated in spring 1990, why not do the same with Irans?” Iran is 4 times bigger. And Iran has not attacked another country like Saddam attacked Kuwait, which was the reason a record high number of countries was assembled (by James Baker, US Foreign Secretary) in a coalition to throw him out.
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Actually Kuwait was slant drilling and stealing Saddam’s oil across the border IIRC. Saddam was assured by one particular US ambassador that if he took action, there would be no follow-up. Of course this was a lie, and he was tricked.
“06.09.2012
Today at 0750 we received information that a Defence Advisory Notice or ‘D Notice’ was in effect with regard to certain facts about this story.
No mention of his links to the Security Services
No mention of his links to Iran
No mention of his links to nuclear weapons research
No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing”
Well if that’s true (which I doubt) not everybody is taking any notice of it.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-islamic-rants-1326315
Rec that’s fine mate do you think we’ve cracked it?
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I’m still on page 29 and playing catch-up! 🙂
Kempe,
Phil T said it was over complicating things.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-13506529
For THIS murdered family
Family photos shown
CCTV footage released
Crimewatch reconstruction
A reward offered
For the Chevaline victims
Sweet FA
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DA notice.
Para 4.
Mossad.
I would like to know why there is an apparent lack of any real investigative journalism or research into any aspect of the so called “massacre” in the French Alps. Why has it been dropped? Why has there been no appeals for witnesses? Why has there been no CCTV footage shown of their journey? Why has there been so few photos of the family (dead or alive)? Why have the professions of all concerned not been discussed? Is there an injunction in place? Is there pressure from an individual or organisation to keep the story out of the papers/TV? Why was RAF-man interviewed by Frank Gardener? Why has the mainstream media been unable to get basic facts straight such as the gunshots being heard by witnesses when it was apparently done with a silencer? Why was the neighbour interviewed so early on to give his opinion of the victims finances? Why did the BBC comply with pushing the ‘Muslim family/money/feud’ hypothesis when it has no basis in fact? Why would the bomb-squad go to the house? Why are we not seeing BBC journalists in Sweden where the “grandmother” was supposed to reside? Why are we paying our license-fee when we have to do your research for you?
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Nice one BB, send it to your MP too.
Still thinking the al-Hilli scenario is part of a bigger picture, going back years. It’s the weaponization the earth’s atmosphere and space, IMO. Bike rides and walks: bad ideas.
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Yes I was recently almost killed on a bike ride. I still don’t recall the crash at all, if that’s what happened.
Ricky,
Don’t know if you’ve cracked it, but your theories are getting better and better ….
@ Anders
“Saad Al-Hilli was working with British Intelligence agents trying to persuade Iraqi commanders to issue instructions to their forces in the field to surrender”
What if this was true and he was promised a prominent role in the Iraqi government in return and then the British reneged on the deal. This would make him disillusioned enough to change sides possibly.
c is that a good thinG or a bad thing hahar
Well, all caught up. I think I deserve a pint!
Laterz! 🙂
Hi Kathy, yup, that could work. But basically I think he became bitter at all the deaths, Schlock and Gore, it was barbarism, using depleted uranium ammo too with a half life to maim generations to come. Millions dead, many millions to follow. All this was and is deliberate. I was bitter about it, I still am. So I think he probably did go rogue, or was thinking of it. Mossad have a history of killing Arab scientists, I think I read the figure 300 somewhere recently. So in the war run-up, they are not taking any chances, and they are NOT telling their “friends” all they are up to. The DA notice says it all, really. Normally there would be lots of juicy stories in the press bigging up Kidon teams and how they operate, speculating if Israel were involved. But not this time. If one or two stories come out, more damage limitation, Kempe, a damage limitation merchant, a bad one. RAFman ™ was wheeled out because of threads like this – damage limitation. The public has forgotten about the massacre in the woods, they are reading safer stories about royal tits and underage sex and floods oop North.
Job done.
Anders
I am bitter too and ashamed to be British. The huge anti-war march really cheered me up and I thought they couldn’t possibly ignore that. That was a joke! At least the anti-war march gave me some faith in the British people which was good but it is a sham democracy. But put yourself in his position feeling humiliated and frustrated while the arrogant colonial barbarians destroyed his wonderful country. We don’t know the half of it. Remember his neighbour said that he would tell them about the atrocities committed by Americans that they did’nt know about but when they checked, it was true.
@ anders
Nice one BB, send it to your MP too.
………………
I’ve sent it to British Gas, the Co-Op and Horse & Hound too, just to be on the safe side.
Are there any potential FoIs to the Surrey police over their “investigation” which spring to mind? (Claygate was anomalously Met territory until a few years ago)
@Anders
Mark Golding – Children Of Iraq Association
7 Sep, 2012 – 7:35 pm
According to an Iraqi doctor who declined to be named, Saad Al-Hilli was working with British Intelligence agents trying to persuade Iraqi commanders to issue instructions to their forces in the field to surrender before the US-imposed 2003 deadline for President Saddam to leave the country expired. An attempt was made to isolate those in Saddam’s immediate circle in Baghdad and negate orders they would give to Iraqi commanders situated in bunkers elsewhere in Iraq.
Many thanks
Good thing no security clearance is needed to work with British Intelligence, then.
🙂
@Q 26 September 05:14pm
You’re suggesting that zirconium and hafnium are the “certain elements” which Mark Wms-Thomas tweeted the police are looking into.
Oh yes to the hat and feather but from MWT could just be blether.
@ ferret
26 Sep, 2012 – 9:47 pm
2002/2003 again.
I’ve just Googled “Al Hilli 2002”, and found this. Political discussion about a message by Ali Al Hilli – Saad’s cousin? I wonder..
http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2002/msg00830.html
One cousin in Iraq is
Balsam Hilli Xanthis.
If you can link that up to that link that may help.
@Dopey
Yes… so… Saddam was in power until 2003, when SAH would have been 41.
Plenty of opportunity to have assisted him with technologies, then?
As Trowbridge points out, after 1995 there wouldn’t have been much of a nuclear programme in Iraq for SAH to have assisted with – and at that time SAH would have been 33.
I’m not sure why Kenneth is so sceptical of SAH’s ability to contribute something of value at the age of 29…
As Uni, I did a thesis for my undergrad degree that was research-based, and was cutting edge for its time. By the end of it I knew things that no one else in the world did, and I was just 20. And I would expect many of my contemporaries had the same experience; I was in no way exceptional or unique in that regard.
I’m not saying it to brag, but to show that someone quite young can have unique and highly specialised knowledge and experience.
Re timelines, SAH was born in 1962 (50 yrs old now). If he went to Uni aged 18 (1980) then he would have got his Batchelors aged 21 (1983). If he then did a 2-year Masters that would make him 23 (1986). Add three years for a PhD and he would be 26 (1989).
(And, if he’d gone to either Cambridge or Oxford, as far as I understand it he would have skipped the Masters bit and gone straight on to PhD, so he could have been two years younger.)
So in 1989 (at latest) he could have been fully qualified in whatever he studied (if indeed he did study at all, this is all conjecture).
And he could have had some unique experience and knowledge in some cutting-edge branch of something-or-other.
Lasers? SILEX? Who knows.
And in 1989, with SAH fully qualified, Saddam’s nuclear ambitions had a full 6 years left to run (according to Trowbrige at least) – and there were still a full 14 years before Saddam’s government was toppled by the 2nd Gulf War.
So, I restate my contention, with renewed conviction this time: SAH *could* have helped Saddam’s nuclear ambitions in Iraq. He *could* have had the knowledge. He definitely had the opportunity. And it’s easy to conjecture a motive. And Iraq *did* have an extant nuclear programme at the relevant time.
Is it likely? I don’t know.
But is it possible? Yes, it is.