My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Bluebird It is quite interesting what you have found out. However you should put the information on a website (Try Google Sites) where you have proper links that documents all this, and/or post the information on David Icke with hyperlinks.
@Bluebird
Interesting theory. There are conflicting reports of when the Al-Hilli’s (SAH & co) emigrated to the UK though, a lot of sources say “late 1970’s” rather than 1970 on the dot. Can I ask, what’s your source?
Also, under your theory, I’m a bit puzzled as to why a family not involved in Iraqi politics (“our” Al-Hilli’s) would be assassinated, while their cousins(?) who are actively involved in politics would not be?
What would the assassins gain?
Maybe you can fill this in a bit.
@Katie
Overall I think that’s a reasonable position, so we’ll probably have to just agree to disagree. In other words, we can agree that potentially it might have been possible, but you think that even if SAH’s family were tortured he would not have given in and helped, and I think he would have. Is that fair?
Personally, although it’s not really relevant, I don’t think Saddam would have used nukes in his own country as he had to live there too and I don’t think he was suicidal. Also, and don’t think that most people act according to moral guidelines when it comes to saving their family, they are mostly pragmatic, and it’s the exceptions which prove the rule.
Bluebird wrote:
James, you likely meant Walid Al-Hilli with your question.
IThere is tons of stuff to read regarding Walid Al-Hilli. However, I found a document from 2000 (link that I cited) that was LONG before he returned to Iraq and long before Saddams death. However, in that document (he just signed it, it isn’t written by him) there is a radical cleric ranting on Israel and clearly supporting the Hezbollah.
It might be that his radicalism has changed, otherwise the USA would not let him go to Iraq with Allawi for founding the DAWA party there. Perhaps he is just a sleeping horse. I simply don’t know. We’d have to read a lot more of him. The internet is full of articales regarding Walid Al-Hilli (Professor at the London university). I simply found out that he found the DAWA party in London together with Allawi and that this party was underground at that time and that they were supported by MI6 and CIA. Members of the illegal DAWA party had to fear Saddam’s killern who had shelter in the Iraqi embassy had that time.
After the second Iraq war, Walid Al-Hilli and Allawi returned to Iraq with their DAWA party and Allawi became the first prime minister of iraq and al-hilli became the leader of the DAWA party in Iraqi parliament.
I have no confirmation in what way Walid Al-Hilli was a relative to Khaleed (or Saad). I simply know from documents regarding Walid Al-Hilli that his family emigrated to England in 1970 like Saad’s family and Balsam’s family and of course Allawi’s family did emigrate at that time, otherwise they would have been killed by Saddam.
@ferret:
Source is Balsam Al-Hilli who said that her family emigrated in 1970. In 2005 prior to the elections in Iraq she said in an interview that she lived in England for 35 years.
I have no confirmation for Khaleed, however, when the family of Saad’s cousin did emigrate in 1970 I find it most likely that Khaleed emigrated in 1970 as well.
1970 (for me) was the bell ringing year (Allawi, An Naif, An-Da’ud) to research possible connections and finding that path.
I would really be curious what kind of relativ Walid Al-Hilli (whose family emigrated to the UK 1970 and who returned to Iraq just before the first elections in 2005) might be.
As far as I read the sentiment in Iraq, they were fed up with all those expats coming in to rum everything. That is also why the other US stooge — what was his name, the one that helped instigate the war — never succeeded. So that could be a reason why the current Iraqie leadership will have nothing to do with all those al-Hillis coming back and wanting a role and claiming property
While all this is a very interesting speculation, to me it doesn’t explain the reported D notice, and the corresponding lacunae from UK papers (one title excepted, which kind of proves the rule).
Today at 0750 we received information that a Defence Advisory Notice or ‘D Notice’ was in effect with regard to certain facts about this story.
No mention of his links to the Security Services
No mention of his links to Iran
No mention of his links to nuclear weapons research
No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing
The only place you are going to read about the real facts of this story are on sites like Indymedia.
Manchester based Journalist
Bluebird
This is where all the names get confusing…well for me !
Balsam Hashim al-Hilli (the candidate) is that Balsam Al-Hilli Xanthis (the cousin) ?
I thought Saad and Zaid’s deceased father, from Claygate, was called Kadhim al-Hilli?
@ BB All the al-Hilli professional and political connections are very interesting but is there a proven familial link?
Ferret the D-notice by a “Machester based Journalist” [sic] could be a double scam designed for getting your kind on the lim pin
@ferret
I have no idea who did it and I don’t care. I am just collecting as much logic evidence as I could. If it were Saddam’s people, then of course the rest of the family would be in danger, too.
However, it is pure speculation about who did it and why was it done. Maybe Saad changed sides and started to work for the other side? I don’t know and we’ll hardly find any evidence except somebody of his family is going to talk.
However, let’s make a logic conspiracy theory:
******************
Saad and Zaid had arguments because of Khaleed’s heritage and remains. Perhaps there was no financial dispute because the whole Al-Hilli family seems to be VERY rich. Perhaps there was a dispute about documents they found in their father’s remains? Perhaps hot documents regarding Allawi, the Iraq war or even about 9/11 – remember: Allawi informed CIA and MI6 about Mohammed Atta!). Perhaps the control freak Zaid wanted to destroy those documents but Saad took them and informed wife and grandma? Perhaps in some way those documents made Saad upset and he was going to rant aggressively in forums? Maybe he did decide to publish those documents? And perhaps somebody in his family who was more clever (the control frea?) tried to prohibit that to happen in order to save the lives of their families? Perhaps they had arguments about what to do with those documents?
And finally, there was perhaps a family meeting when they decided to save their own lives by telling some certain intelligence about the documents and about Saad’s plans.
*******
conspiracy ends.
@Kenneth
It could have been, but I doubt it.
Any chance you would like to answer my question?
Awesome work Bluebird you have really pushed this thread on in the last two days and we are really coming up with some great evidence! thank you! it was mentioned last week in a paper that the Al-Hilli family was in politics in Iraq (as well as engineers & poultry farmers) ill try and find it.
As an aside….
How good are the local police in Annecy….?
This from July 2011
Rescuers looking for the body of a boy in a lake (Annecy) in the French Alps found THREE more corpses.
The 15-year-old, who vanished last week while swimming in Lake Annecy, was recovered – but officers also dredged the decomposed bodies. Forensics experts are trying to identify them.
Police said: “It could be people who have died in similar accidents, or their bodies could have been put there after their deaths.”
I like the “zay cud be put dare after zere deaths…who knows”.
He’s not worried at all !!
@Bluebird
It is possible to come up with such theories, yes, I’m not saying it isn’t. It’s just that it doesn’t ring true to me, which is of course a very personal thing, and some facts seem to go begging. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I may end up being wrong, but for now, for me, it doesn’t work.
But as you say, it’s always good to keep digging, and keep looking for connections!
I still say it’s far more likely that the connections we have already uncovered or hypotheised are the key to the whole thing: Saad’s knowledge of nuclear techologies, his links to intelligence and to Iran, and to satellite technologies.
And that Mossad did it.
Just my tuppence-worth!
😀
@james.
look some of my posts further above where I cited the Al-Hilli family tree.
Yes Sir, Balsam Al-Hilli Xanthis is the same person as it is Balsam Hill-Xanthis or Balsam Xanthis or Balsam Hilli-Xanthis. At least those three “persons” had the same children or else they gave their three children the same names.
@C
yes, I gave you a lot of proven links in my previous posts. Just scroll upwards where you can read that Ali Al-Hilli and Balsam Al-Hilli are cousins of Zaid and Saad.
There is also a proven link that Yaser al-Safar from the Bank of England is a cousin (family side of Iqbal, Saad’s wife).
I have no proven relative link for Walid Al-Hilli yet found, although I know that he lived in England between the year 1970 until 2004/2005.
What I really would like to know is if there is a relative link between Hussein Al-Hilli and the Al-Hilli family.
Kenneth Sorensen
27 Sep, 2012 – 12:51 pm
“….the D-notice by a “Machester based Journalist” [sic] could be a double scam designed for getting your kind on the lim pin”.
Makes sense to me as the media will still adhere it but let off steam occasionally as the Mirror and People have.
@Kenneth @Blue_Bear
Apart from the rather perverse logic involved in the idea that the D notice was double bluff, are you saying that the purported Iraqi murderers (who are not in bed with MI6) would somehow get the UK government to issue a bogus D notice to lead people off the scent, by prohibiting publishing the *wrong* subjects?
If so, how, exactly, would they have done that?
Remember, in this scenario, the Al-Hilli’s are the ones *with* the MI6 links, so you’d have to be saying that the ones *without* the intelligence links are somehow influencing the UK government to issue a double-bluff D notice.
Somehow, I don’t think so.
Bluebird… Ferret.
I hear what your saying (Ferret) with regard to the “satellite” industry links, but he had only been there for from Nov 2010.
If he had “got his hands” on something….he would need a “pathway” to where ever he was “sending it”.
And that “pathway” must have been visible to some Intelligence Agency or other. (THAT IS A COMPLETE ASSUMPTION THOUGH).
Hence I can “see” both Your view (Ferret) and your view (Bluebird) actually as “one and the same”.
My two Dirhams worth.
No, Ferret, I’m saying there were never any D-notice. It was just “reported” by that faked “Manchester based Journalist” [sic]
Do we think that Mollier was his handler then in France and that is why he went there a few times a year?
Hi, Bluebird. i know exactly how you fell after having found out something groundbraking. On a smaller scale I myself discovered how pecking the Danisk Krone to the D-mark actually CAUSED the 7 year stagnation period following the REVALUATION of the d-mark at the plaza hotel in New York on September 22 1985.
{https://sites.google.com/site/derernogetrivravruskendegalt/home}
But you could — as an initial step in getting the information out — collect what you have found on a website created for the purpose. From there on, journalists could be presented with the evidence. You could even send the link of your website round to different journalists, although in my experience these people are simply some of the worst…..
They always come out in the bottom next to politicians and real estate egants when people are asked about which professions they trust
Anyone could have sent that message Ferret. There are countless people who don’t want the case discussed openly.
@ bluebird 27 Sep, 2012 – 1:00 pm
Thanks, I’ll re-read. But you do refer (12.26pm) to – the distance between Claygate (Khaleed Al-Hilli’s home)…
Are you confusing Khaleed al-Hilli with Kadhim al-Hilli?
see ‘Kadhim al Hilli: el millonario discreto’
{http://www.laopiniondemalaga.es/malaga/2012/09/11/kadhim-hilli-millonario-discreto/532905.html}
Hot find:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/brother-of-alps-massacre-victim-to-be-quizzed-by-french-police-8116658.html
“Family friend Zaid Alabdi, 48, from Kingston-upon-Thames, said an inheritance dispute had broken out between Mr al-Hilli and his elder brother following the death of their father Kadhim, a wealthy businessman, late last year.”
Allawi lived in Kingston upon Thames !!!!!
See: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/world/middleeast/30allawi.html?_r=0
(2nd paragraph)
Sara Allawi (child or grandchild?) is still living in Kingston upon Thames
http://www.192.com/atoz/people/allawi/sara/
and Ayad Allawi is still registered at the same address!!!!
There we are. The Saad’s had a family friend in Kingston upon Thames who is Zaid Alabdi (did he apparently change his name a little bit?!?) and we have still Ayed Allawi having his house there, too.
And we have Walid al-Hilli who is now leader of Allawi’s party in Iraq who lived and worked in England at the same time and we have Saad’s cousin Balsam al-Hilli Xanthi who did candidate for Allawi’s party in the Iraq elections.
The link between Mi6/CIA man ex-prime minister Ayad Allawi and the Al-Hilli family is getting even closer with Zaid Alabdi.
Bluebird you must just continue to repeat yourself :-).
In my experience people generally are rather dumb. Even Goebbels said that if you repeat a lie often enough, peole actually end up believing it. The point here of course is that we here could be on to the truth. so after one has found out of something, there is a great urge to get the information out. And as I said, a first step could be to assemble everything you have found out on a website (and in my opinion Google sites is the best there is – and its free) – with proper hyperlinks as documentation or footnotes.
@CD, I stay corrected. I did mixed the name up (I am not perfect, LOL).
Khadim of course, by wrongly writing “Khaleed” I always meant Saad’s father Khadim of course.
@Sorensen,
I know of course that I am not anonymous here. But setting up a website is another degree of stitching in a wesp nest. My compliment to jon for doing that.
Sorensen, I love collecting eveidence and it is always very satisfying for me when I find something that is logic and fits the puzzle.
However, I have no problem if somebody else is going to set up a website with my links and information. I would appreciate that. What I would really like to see is a family tree regarding the names of the family we know so far. That should be easy done in an excel chart. I would do that but I can’t upload that chart here.
@ katie
“Official Iraqi documents recovered after the fall of Saddam regime suggest a staggering 5 million executions were made during Baath era alone. Over 10 million were also imprisoned. They were all Shias save a small percentage of Kurds. It is also very interesting to note that after the 1991 Shia uprising over 300,000 were killed or captured never to be seen again, but there were no injured.”
Care to provide a link to that please?
@Suhayl @blue
Re: Auntie B
Naming convention is [email protected]
So pick your favourite reporter and fire away
😉
Let’s have a friendly competetion as to who can make the best website displaying the interconnectivity of these people
Do anyone know of any “family tree” software (free of course). I only now the “insert table” function on Google sites, they are quite good, but of course cannot reproduce the inter-connectivity of the different persons. Therefore we may need to look at genealogy software, something like “Myheritage”.