The Al-Hilli Conundrum 6629

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My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.

Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.

In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.

My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?

Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:

From Janesmith101

All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police

Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.

Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.

What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?

As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.

http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html

The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.

Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.

An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.

I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.

I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.

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6,629 thoughts on “The Al-Hilli Conundrum”

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  • anders7777

    @anon

    Wonder if there was a GPS destination programmed into the car’s sat-nav?

    Google Navigation says the road is suitable for vehicles and they weren’t at a dead end. Another track that carries on up the mountain side from that point is listed as not suitable for vehicles and I cannot plot a driving route up it. However the route might be suitable for bikes (off-road push bikes, motorcycles possibly?) A main road will be reached after travelling 1/2 mile (as the bird flies – longer on the track as it zig-zags).

    =====

    Wonder if a 4×4 could escape that way…?

  • Anon

    Vermillion,

    An exchange of bikes would be one way to exchange technology – especially effective if they were very similar bikes.

    “Our ZircAloy(TM) bikes with enhanced MOX core ensure you will never run out of energy even on the steepest climbs.” 😉

  • Anon

    straw44berry could you post the cords you think it is then. The coords posted by DonnyDarko match those posted by a newspaper as the google maps coordinates but that could be wrong.

  • Matt

    There is a multi-lingual sign which can be seen here on Google Streetview:

    https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=45.731048,6.225787&hl=en&ll=45.757424,6.223021&spn=0.001024,0.002642&sll=57.746995,-4.687341&sspn=9.759158,19.753418&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.757424,6.223021&panoid=SQBqpksbidCjqyn8w4Sq-g&cbp=12,200.47,,0,4.93

    I noticed this on the initial TV coverage as it basically says that the road is only suitable for motor vehicles for another 5km. As far as the car was concerned, they were driving a cul-de-sac. However, there appear to by myriad tracks in that part of the valley which would easily be accessible by mountain bike or on foot.

    The average gradient from that point up to where the car was found is about 1-in-16, but some parts appear to be considerably steeper at around 1-in-5, which is STEEP for a cyclist. The height gain is around 300m. One would have to have a very reasonable degree of fitness to cover 5km (3 miles) of off-road track of that sort of gradient at 16km/h, i.e. in less than 20 minutes.

  • anders7777

    @Vermillion

    Yeap – the bikes seem the biggest question now. Was there one on the victims car (would explain the apparent damage to the roof rack). And are we sure the ex-Raf man came on a bike – I hope the french police check to make sure which bike really belongs to which person. There may only have been two bikes to begin with or maybe there was three so where is the missing one. An exchange of bikes would be one way to exchange technology – especially effective if they were very similar bikes.

    ====

    I thought of that yesterday, if RAFman found, say, a memory stick, he could have taken off the seatpost and dropped it in the downtube, pop the seat back on, would the French check before SDECE arrived? I doubt it. SAH apparently did have an MTB strapped to the roof of the beemer, per the camp site folks. If RAFman is lying, and was always at the RV in the trees, after the 1. cock-up, or 2, hit, he for whatever reason decided to stick around, did he rip the bike off the roof (as the roof supports look damaged) and then make up a story about having an innocent bike ride. But then, what did he do with the damaged roof supports, if there were any, hard to tell from photos. He could have give them + other evidence he wanted to collect either to the 4×4 or the motorbike.

    IF they existed at all, I understand we only have RAFman that saw them at all?

  • nuid

    “I noticed this on the initial TV coverage as it basically says that the road is only suitable for motor vehicles for another 5km. As far as the car was concerned, they were driving a cul-de-sac. However, there appear to by myriad tracks in that part of the valley which would easily be accessible by mountain bike or on foot.”

    Yes, I saw that too. Which is why I have always referred to it as a dead-end, other than for walkers or cyclists (or, one assumes, motorbikes.)

  • nuid

    “Yes, I saw that too. Which is why I have always referred to it as a dead-end, other than for walkers or cyclists (or, one assumes, motorbikes.)”

    It’s also why I asked, which direction was the 4×4 and the white car supposed to be going in when seen? And if they were coming down, who saw them going up? And what direction was this green 4×4 supposedly going in when the RAF guy saw it?

  • Barkbat

    My last point.

    If Iran was involved in this massacre involving young children, there would be a considerable political incentive to promote this, both in the West and in the Israeli press, as this would add to the general case that Iran is a terrorist state not to be reasoned with, and war is a potential necessity.

    If Israel was involved, it could be a massive potential embarrasment, as a supposed ally kills UK and French nationals with impunity, and without their intelligences knowing very much at all. It would stoke anti-Israeli feeling and damage any potential case for war with Iran. There would be a considerable political incentive to bury this and shift the blame onto other more mundane and domestic suspects.

    Which one does reality tally with?

  • TomRudko

    I don’t think ak-Hilli was involved in some kind of bogus activity to help Iran acquire nuclear weapons or to meet smn related to such alleged activity. I also don’t think he would take female members of his family to “a trip” which he knew would be dangerous (if he was in bogus activity to help Iran), considering he had knowlwedge of satellites, he probably would know he would be under surveilllance for such activity.
    So, i believe, the main target was a Frenchman, al-Hilli turned out in a wrong place at a wrong time. RAF man should be questioned. He is the one who knows more here. Military style execution in such a short period of time and the killer dissappears. Smells rat. Smells Israhel.

  • anders7777

    @Lwtc247

    Aren’t (some of) you forgetting something?…
    The Iranians have decreed nuclear weapons as forbidden. If Al-Hilli was involved in proliferation, it could well be for an alternative foreign power, and not Iran. [A Central Asian states perhaps?]
    .
    I would imagine Iran’s RnD sector is sufficiently advanced that it would not need to gain the kind of information a french Nuclear engineer could furnish – which would very likely (in my eyes anyway) be related to civilian, and NOT MILITARY nuclear technology.
    .

    =====
    As I think Barkbat has stated, what if it were a nuclear sub design? Or this new satellite SAH was working on that can see through clouds? Etc etc. The pair had a very wide skill set, and access to all manner of mainframe computers, with access passwords etc.
    =====

    All this could be a set up to make it LOOK as if Iran has a secret plan. The fact that chatter is suggesting just that, is quite telling I feel.
    .
    =====
    Yes THAT and the fact that our 4th estate is NOT mentioning the dreaded M word, sayanim, and kidon teams.
    =====

    And does nobody find it peculiar that with the ratcheting up of anti-Iranian rhetoric to near ‘twelfth hour’ proportions of late, then suddenly this happens?
    .
    =====
    Well it’s on the cards Iran will be attacked sooner or later, that has been the PNAC plan all along, and they haven’t veered off course yet.
    =====

    Whoever did the multiple, probably professional assassinations, indicates an ACTIVE and rogue agency is at work

    =====
    You’re yalking about Jason Bourne’s TREADSTONE now, lol. But you could very well be right, because unless the 20-man spook panic scramble was just a fake, a tell, then the brits were caught by surprise…
    =====

    which is able to operate undetected by the standard intelligence and law enforcement agencies. That is very disturbing, and shows they themselves must be hunted down. But of course this would not happen if it’s authority is sufficiently high, like an agency of a state for example.
    .
    This ‘group’ has the ability to track and hunt down opponents as well as possibly being able to undertake successful surveillance on people who surely must have taken high levels of security and anti-surveillance measures IF they were up to something serious.
    .
    It doesn’t take much thought to narrow the list of perpetrators.

    =====
    Yes a small’ish list.

  • Anon

    Matt,

    That sign is 3.6km away from the coords posted by DonnyDarko (by road not straight line). Google Nav still insists that was not a dead end.

  • TFS

    speaking of terrorists Craig,

    I wonder how many undesirables have been subject to incarceration in our mental institutes, feed a plethora of drugs or chemically lobotomized?

    better still I wonder how many visits to such premises have been by our secret services?

    As a country we should hold our collective heads in shame or am i being too cynical?

  • vermillion

    Just noticed how far up the road into the forest the car was if Mr Al-Hilli was being dropped of for a cycle or even a meet and swap then he could have been dropped nearer the village and cycled the rest of the way (keeping the rest of the family out of it). Maybe the family were to be extracted (to where I don’t know). As I’ve mentioned before there are helicopter flights around that area (for viewing Mont Blanc I have heard) and there are flat areas above that road that could land a helicopter.

  • Matt

    “That sign is 3.6km away from the coords posted by DonnyDarko (by road not straight line). Google Nav still insists that was not a dead end”

    You’re right, I measured the 5km from Armand. The first 1.4km is a height gain of around 70m. My point about fitness levels / speeds / gradients still stands though.

  • vermillion

    Anon

    “Matt,

    That sign is 3.6km away from the coords posted by DonnyDarko (by road not straight line). Google Nav still insists that was not a dead end.”

    ===

    One early report mentioned that a barrier was open – it did not make sense to me at the time but maybe the road is closed sometimes(in winter or when forestry work is being done). Given the barrier was open it seems all this talk of dead ends is misleading. Maybe the barrier was closed and one of the involved parties opened it…. which would make a good ambush point. Perhaps the 7 year old daughter left the car to open it.

  • anders7777

    Any blood spatter experts here?

    This just posted at Icke, I must say I never thought about blood spatter, surely the remaining windows should have been drenched, the front windscreen etc…

    Originally Posted by tien an
    25 shots fired….two head-shots each adult…and not one blood-stain visible on upholstery or
    what remains of window glass.

    What are the chances of that?

    tian an.

    Anders – latest is 43 shots…

  • dave brooker

    So given the BMW is hard up against the embankment, was the tailgate already open when it was reversed?

    Looks like it would be impossible to open it where it rests as it would meet the undergrowth as it opened?

    Also looks like the rear passenger window is down suggesting daughter no 1 who got shot was pushed through that and instructed to run?

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