The Al-Hilli Conundrum 6629


My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.

Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.

In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.

My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?

Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:

From Janesmith101

All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police

Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.

Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.

What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?

As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.

http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html

The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.

Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.

An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.

I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.

I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.


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6,629 thoughts on “The Al-Hilli Conundrum

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  • molliemallone

    @ katie – “Official Iraqi documents recovered after the fall of Saddam regime suggest a staggering 5 million executions were made during Baath era alone. Over 10 million were also imprisoned. They were all Shias save a small percentage of Kurds. It is also very interesting to note that after the 1991 Shia uprising over 300,000 were killed or captured never to be seen again, but there were no injured.”

    That seems like an awful lot of people Katie, can’t even imagine how you would imprison 10 million people, that would take a lot of infrastructure!

    Got the following from Wikipedia – still a shocking number of people, but nowhere near the numbers you are quoting.

    According to The New York Times, “he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule”.[9] Others have estimated 800,000 deaths caused by Saddam not counting the Iran-Iraq war.[10] Estimates as to the number of Iraqis executed by Saddam’s regime vary from 300-500,000[11] to over 600,000,[12] estimates as to the number of Kurds he massacred vary from 70,000 to 300,000,[13] and estimates as to the number killed in the put-down of the 1991 rebellion vary from 60,000[14] to 200,000.[12] Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.[15]

    Do you have a source for your numbers Katie?

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    Bluebird wrote:

    I would do that but I can’t upload that chart here.

    Yes, definately best you do it yourself. And after you have done it, you take a screenshot, and place that screenshot on a website. I myself have Picasa running when I take a screenshot, and then I syncronize the folder where that image is, with Picasa web. From there I get the images URL and insert it on David Icke]

    From there on it is easy to insert that image on David Icke. Do not mind that the chart becomes obsolete after a while, you could then just insert an updated one. It’s the best we have at the moment.

    —-

    By the way, have you noticed the silence of all those pursuing a different track to solving this mystery?

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    Ricky – does the person say anything when you have him on the phone? I had one someone calling without saying anything, just momenst after posting something [on a Danish right-wing website, whsich I disagree with, and that could have upset him] Generally just ignore. He could diasagree with you politically, and use his newly required ‘power’ to call you, after he — in connection with his job — has got access to your phone number.

    It could be some low level nutter recruited at some point by the intelligence services. Since 9/11 a lot of those nutters have been imployed and are having a grand time on taxpayers money.

  • bluebird

    sorensen,

    I would prefer sending that family tree chart to jon by email.
    However, I would need jon’s confirmation here if that would be ok for him. He knows my email anyway through registration but he could just say “yes” or “No” in his forum once he reads that entry.

  • Ricki Tarr

    RRRRooowland – thanks pal!

    I really wish you knew me as im not like that at all! and to be honest a lot of that posting to myslef helped us!

    I think weve come pretty far and everyone has made a contribution!

    If you dont think so thats ok! no abuse from me but I dont see you contribute too much!

    Later potater!

  • Ricki Tarr

    I answered, they asked for Rickie and I asked them who it was (didnt confirm) and they said arrr I have the wrong number and put the phone down!

    Ill post the number if you want!

  • kathy

    @ mollie

    I think she is confusing him with Pol Pot …all these “furriners” are the same to her

  • Ferret

    Ferret the D-notice by a “Machester based Journalist” [sic] could be a double scam designed for getting your kind on the lim pin – Bluebird @ 12.51

    No, Ferret, I’m saying there were never any D-notice. It was just “reported” by that faked “Manchester based Journalist” [sic] – Bluebird @ 1.14

    Anyone could have sent that message Ferret. There are countless people who don’t want the case discussed openly. – Blue Bear @ 1.20

    So… Bluebird, first you said it was a double bluff, now you say it doesn’t exist. Which way is it? You can’t have it both ways.

    😀

    And BLue Bear, yes, anyone could have sent that, but they weren’t trying to stifle debate, they were warning people out here that there was a lid on things. Not sure how you managed to turn that on its head?

    Anyone claiming the reported D notice is part of some conspiracy theory and not real would have to wonder at the fact that the ENTIRE MAINSTREAM MEDIA including newspapers, radio, and TV, has consistently avoided the four subjects mentioned in the D notice, AFTER the purported D notice was leaked. (All except one newspaper, see below.)

    The four subjects, again, are:

    1. No mention of SAH’s intelligence links
    2. No mention of SAH’s links to nuclear research
    3. No mention of SAH’s links to Iran
    4. No speculation about Mossad involvement

    The fact that one newspaper has broken ranks and flaunted the D-notice (which is a voluntary code of conduct) only serves to reinforce the deafening silence on these subjects by the rest of the mainstream media.

    After all, SAH’s links to RAL are well known, so are his Iranian links (via his wife, and his visit to Qom late last year), and Mossad is an obvious suspect.

    Without the D notice there is no rational explanation why these subjects would be entirely missing from the mainstream media, nor why friends and relatives would have been told to shut up by the police.

    And as the writer of the leak prophetically said, the only place you can find these subjects being discussed, is on the internet.

    ————————-

    The DA Notice System is a Voluntary Code of Conduct

    The Defence, Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee (DPBAC) oversees a voluntary code which operates between the UK Government departments which have responsibilities for national security and the media. It uses the Defence Advisory (DA)-Notice System as its vehicle.

    http://www.dnotice.org.uk/

  • Q

    Remember the possibility of industrial espionage angle that was presented in the media when this story broke?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200388/Did-French-Alps-murder-victims-secret-work-space-satellite-contract-make-prime-assassination-target.html
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/27/us-wto-boeing-idUSBRE88Q0MG20120927

    (William) Brett Martin was a Boeing pilot.

    $12 billion in trade sanctions against the US is a lot of money. The dispute has been going on for seven years.

  • bluebird

    @ferret

    sorry ferrer, you might mix up me (“bluebird”) with some “bluebear” (that ain’t me and I don’t know who that is) because you cited things above what I never wrote (obviously he wrote that) and now you’re asking me for an answer?

  • CD

    Allawi was the person who conveyed the supposed Iraqi 45mins WMD strike capability to UK and US ‘intelligence’. He survived an early assassination attempt in 1978 in Kingston on Thames after he fell out with Saddam for whom he had done some dirty intelligence work.

    see {http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0529-02.htm}

    There is a sizable Iraqi community in Surrey and around Kingston on Thames. The Al-Hillis didn’t move there until around 1990.

  • Ferret

    Sorry, my bad. The first two quotes were from Kenneth Sorensen, not Bluebird.

    Ferret the D-notice by a “Machester based Journalist” [sic] could be a double scam designed for getting your kind on the lim pin – Kenneth @ 12.51

    No, Ferret, I’m saying there were never any D-notice. It was just “reported” by that faked “Manchester based Journalist” [sic] – Kenneth @ 1.14

    Anyone could have sent that message Ferret. There are countless people who don’t want the case discussed openly. – Blue_Bear @ 1.20

    So… Kenneth, first you said it was a double bluff, now you say it doesn’t exist. Which version of your truth would you have us believe? You can’t have it both ways.

    And Blue Bear, yes, anyone could have sent that, but they weren’t trying to stifle debate, they were warning people out here that there was a lid on things. Not sure how you managed to turn that on its head?

    Anyone claiming the reported D notice is part of some conspiracy theory and not real would have to wonder at the fact that the ENTIRE MAINSTREAM MEDIA including newspapers, radio, and TV, has consistently avoided the four subjects mentioned in the D notice, AFTER the purported D notice was leaked. (All except one newspaper, see below.)

    The four subjects, again, are:

    1. No mention of SAH’s intelligence links
    2. No mention of SAH’s links to nuclear research
    3. No mention of SAH’s links to Iran
    4. No speculation about Mossad involvement

    The fact that one newspaper has broken ranks and flaunted the D-notice (which is a voluntary code of conduct) only serves to reinforce the deafening silence on these subjects by the rest of the mainstream media.

    After all, SAH’s links to RAL are well known, so are his Iranian links (via his wife, and his visit to Qom late last year), and Mossad is an obvious suspect.

    Without the D notice there is no rational explanation why these subjects would be entirely missing from the mainstream media, nor why friends and relatives would have been told to shut up by the police.

    And as the writer of the leak prophetically said, the only place you can find these subjects being discussed, is on the internet.

    ————————-

    The DA Notice System is a Voluntary Code of Conduct

    The Defence, Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee (DPBAC) oversees a voluntary code which operates between the UK Government departments which have responsibilities for national security and the media. It uses the Defence Advisory (DA)-Notice System as its vehicle.

    http://www.dnotice.org.uk/

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    Bluebird I do not see the point in sending that chart to Jon. On this blog at least it is not possible to publish images/charts, but perhaps ‘Jon’ can publish it elsewhere? Where?

    David Icke’s forum on the other hand accept images/charts. It’s Okay you send it to Jon (although I am unsure where he will publish it) but do at least upload it to DavidIcke as well –

  • Blue_Bear

    Ferret, Kenneth said that. Have a look at the post. I haven’t changed my mind. Maybe there is something official in place, maybe it’s just some implied pressure via the owners of individual papers. Last night I agreed with Phil T’s point that it adds unnecessary complication. Maybe the journalist was real and was told there’s a D-notice by someone above.

    Anyway, it’s distracting from the excellent work people are doing here.

    RE. the Beeb. I know my email may be futile but their charter needs to be upheld and so I like to remind occasionally.

  • Ferret

    @Kenneth

    PS. What did you mean by “your kind” exactly?

    PPS. Any chance of an answer to my question? Pretty please? Anytime soon?

  • Q

    @James re: Annecy police.

    I think you’re asking the same question that was asked in the Lachlan Cranswick case. Monthly police bulletins there revealed that the most challenging case in months involved a drunk/mentally ill woman with road rage who took out Christmas lawn ornaments with her car. It’s hard to imagine how they’d deal with an international case like an assassination.

    In the Cranswick case, the officers went out on snowmobiles looking for the missing scientist. Then the case faded away until late spring when a body showed up in shallow water in a bay that is too shallow for boats. It was found by fishermen in canoes, although the shallow bay is known not to have fish. It was found just hours after a similar body was found in the national capital, near the PM’s official residence. That body was also found by fisherman in canoes just a few hours earlier, enough time to drive a body from Ottawa to Deep River. And of course, no one but the mysterious canoe fisherman who have the bad sense to fish where there are no fish saw the body and recovery, in the middle of the day.

    I think these things happen in small, isolated towns for a reason, don’t you?

  • CD

    @ Kenneth
    It’s history – it gives some evidence for a possible commonality of interest among members of the Iraqi diaspora who were dispossessed under the Saddam regime, some of whom lived in a certain part of the UK. It remains to be proven if these are factors with a bearing on the murders in France.

  • Ferret

    @Blue_Bear

    Ferret, Kenneth said that. Have a look at the post. I haven’t changed my mind.

    I agree – sorry if that wasn’t clear. I’m under pressure at work so making mistakes here. My apologies.

    Maybe there is something official in place

    A concession at last…

    maybe it’s just some implied pressure via the owners of individual papers.

    ALL of them? Independently? Plus the TV and Radio, including the BBC, ITV, and Sky? How would they do that? And why? That’s a conspiracy theory of enormous proportions!

    Last night I agreed with Phil T’s point that it adds unnecessary complication.

    Not sure how… The way I see it, it’s just another part of the puzzle that has to be fitted together, and not swept under the carpet.

    Maybe the journalist was real and was told there’s a D-notice by someone above.

    …. erm, perhaps because there was one? Or why?

    Anyway, it’s distracting from the excellent work people are doing here.

    No, it’s not a distraction, it’s integral. If the “Iraqis-wot-done-it” hypothesis is correct, someone has to explain the D notice. (Or the magical psychic prediction, if it wasn’t a D notice, and the collusion of all papers, TV, and radio.) That’s why I brought it up.

    RE. the Beeb. I know my email may be futile but their charter needs to be upheld and so I like to remind occasionally.

    Couldn’t agree more. Best way I know of is to complain (can be done online) and to request a response. That way someone HAS to look at it, and the complaint gets recorded in the stats. If they get enough complaints, things happen. (Eyebrows are raised, at least, sometimes you even get a mini-result. But don’t expect too much.)

  • Blue_Bear

    Ferret I’ll reply later, real busy. But I’m listening to Kevin Marsh on Fivelive. Interesting stuff about WMD/45 min to death etc…

  • molliemallone

    Ricki, It looks like it belongs to someone called Russell Shields of Hoe Street , Walthamstow.

    Do you know him?!

  • bluebird

    @katie
    thanks for the link but I knew this link already.
    I know much more about Hussein al-Hilli.
    However, I have no clue if he can be linked with the al-Hilli family.

    This guy looks to me like James Bond. Trainee at British military special forces, scientist, marathon runner, himalaya expedition, ….

    However, I found no source yet for linking him to that family.

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