My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
The reported arrival of 20 English speaking military types / intelligence officers within hours (apparently Geneva, which is much closer than Paris, is a hangout of spooks) is also not consistent with the ‘intelligence sources’ who are reported telling journos that this does not involve any national security issues and Al-Hilli was not on their radar.
While I remember the report that a neighbour had ‘Special Branch’ sitting in his drive watching / following Al-Hilli during the Iraq war does not stack up. If you are watching someone you don’t tell their neighbours and act overtly. If anything it sounds more like protection.
Too many inconsistencies for us to be able to believe any information coming from official channels.
@Nuid – I don’t have problem with LeilaLamnaoue twitter… she seems to be the main source for a lot of stories. She is now tweeting another press conference.
Leila Lamnaouer @leilalamnaouer
nouvelle conférence de presse du procureur #Annecy mercredi 12/09 sur les dernières infos #tuerie #chevaline: http://www.lessorsavoyard.fr
8:54 AM – 11 Sep 12 ·
[This was 59 minutes ago] Not sure what time zone that 8.54 am refers to. it was 16.54 BST]
sorry, 17.54 BST 16.54 GMT
‘HA’, many thanks, that’s very useful info. wrt witnesses, the press, privacy and so on. Glad you dug the humour, too!
Recondito, please don’t apologise – your English is far better than my proficiency in any language other than English! In any case, I was amused at the creativity of your typo. The reference to parasols and Patrick McGoohan, by the way, was a peculiarly British ‘anorak’ one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRPDO63rI1E
Harry is writing a novel.
“And Harry, are you the Harry from Spooks?” Sunflower.
No, it’s Cliff Richard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JKtHcM05Dk
@Harry Webb: The RAF man saw two vehicles coming down: green or dark 4×4 and motorbike. The third car, maybe a white Peugeot, was seen speeding on the wrong side of the road much further down in Chevaline by Sylvie Lecoeur. While it is plausible that the mason (who noticed only the family car going up) missed a few vehicles, this is less likely for the RAF man, who would have had to give them space for passing. Given the notorious unreliability of eye witnesses, it is much more likely that green 4×4 = white Peugeot.
“@Nuid – I don’t have problem with LeilaLamnaoue twitter… she seems to be the main source for a lot of stories. She is now tweeting another press conference.”
Dammit. Must be my browser. I have about five pages open. Plus my connection is not great. But I was getting a message from Twitter, about slow loading.
A neighbour claimed Saad told him they were going on a break as he needed to rest because he had a bad back……someone’s lying. The last thing you’d do if you had a bad back and wanted to rest it would be to set off on a drive like that, and THEN be in and out of the capsite 4/6 times a day as though attached to the place on a piece of elastic. Bad back my ass.
Also the mother in law… the accountant said Saad dashed off from his place just before they set off for France, to collect the MIL from Reading in Berks. So was she living in Sweden, or was she living in Reading? And if she lived in Reading how come the 4 year old didn’t know who she was, and had only met her a couple of times?…..and why couldn;t they identify her from her passport (or two passports wasnt it?) and had to confirm her ID instead from relatives in the UK?
“and why couldn;t they identify her from her passport (or two passports wasnt it?) and had to confirm her ID instead from relatives in the UK?”
They said it was because she was shot in the face.
Nuid it took then 4 or more days to name her. At the press conference the day before they implied that the passport didn;t match up, though it was for a Swedish woman living in Sweden. When she set off for France with Saad she was in Reading.
Probably will be resolved when we find out that, by astonishing coincidence, a group of SAS officers on leave were having a picnic 1/2 mile away. They then just happened to stumble onto the scene a few hours later on their way back to the pub. Having dodged multiple speeding cars, motorbikes, cyclists, assassins, spies, nuclear and sat-recon experts and the photographer who killed Gaddafi, or something like that, on the way.
Sounds about as likely as everything else so far.
Here’s what he said at the conference – the passport was for a woman of swedish nationality who lives in sweden but “at the moment no link can be made between the passport and the older woman or her relationship to the family”
I think the mother in law possibly was on holiday from Sweden and staying with her daughter who was at Reading University doing PhD and who is now at the bedside of Zainab.
No, I saw him speaking – he said they couldn’t match the body to the passport as it was “too difficult”. Later it emerged that she was shot in the face and they were going to have to use DNA to ID her. At least, that’s what I read or heard.
Sorry, my last reply was to Dopey @
11 Sep, 2012 – 6:12 pm
Yesterday, I tweeted one of the Guardian journos involved in this story to ask if there was a D-notice on this. I got no reply. Significant?
Aah. Thanks Kathy and Nuid
@Suhayl I lol’ed 🙂
Seriously Cliff, I you want to plant DI, make a better effort please. Thought the intelligence community had the resources to hire some brains.
Interesting (or not) thread of tweets from Flightradar24.com on 6th Sept. ”Is it Murphy’s birthday today? Just received a fifth squawk alert over France! http://fr24.com/TAP446” 10:09pm
“Probably will be resolved when we find out that, by astonishing coincidence, a group of SAS officers on leave were having a picnic 1/2 mile away. They then just happened to stumble onto the scene a few hours later on their way back to the pub. Having dodged multiple speeding cars, motorbikes, cyclists, assassins, spies, nuclear and sat-recon experts and the photographer who killed Gaddafi, or something like that, on the way.”
😀
In my twenties (years and years and years ago) I was skiing in Aviemore with a couple of friends. We were learners. A group of SAS guys were being taught on the same slope. Every time one of us fell, we lost a little dignity. But every time one of them fell, they were bawled out by their CO, called all sorts of names, and told to get back up toute de suite or face the consequences, etc etc. One of the most entertaining holidays I’ve ever had.
[The SAS made up for all the sharp rocks, which we hadn’t had to cope with in Austria the year before!]
“Yesterday, I tweeted one of the Guardian journos involved in this story to ask if there was a D-notice on this. I got no reply. Significant?”
I tweeted a Sky ‘journalist’ and asked the same. He promptly blocked me! LOL
Ian,
Link to “thread of tweets”?
the passport was for a woman of swedish nationality who lives in sweden
Not Anna Ardin’s by any chance?
😀
@flightradar24 (on twitter)just scroll down to 6th. http://t.co/PBjgr5ij <<<link to tweet
Got link now https://twitter.com/flightradar24
Kathy, your point is well made. There is a human side to this and I hope she isn’t reading too much on the internet regarding her family. “I think the mother in law possibly was on holiday from Sweden and staying with her daughter who was at Reading University doing PhD and who is now at the bedside of Zainab.”
From the police statements it sounds like they hadn’t identified her due to the shot to the face. It is very possible that the child may have never seen her nan if she’s never visited the UK.
Anon if you go to map page of Flight24.com, click on the latest tweet (left hand of page),that takes you to the twitter account then just scroll down through.
Strange….tweet on flightradar24 timeline on 6th stated how quiet French airspace was. (15 mins ago) gone now.
no bullshit read that tweet 15 mins ago….now deleted.